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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

psionl0 said:
All of the cryptos are in decline ATM. It appears that whatever mechanism is used for "stable" coins doesn't work if the crypto market falls too fast.
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Stable coins aren't supposed to decline - at least, not in comparison to the real currency to which they are allegedly pegged. What use are they if they can collapse when people don't put enough money into cryptocurrency (Ponzi scheme alert) causing the market to "fall too fast"?

Terra/Luna's mechanism failed because the algorithm used was vulnerable to a death spiral scenario. Who knew? Just about everybody who wasn't blinded by crypto-zeal.

Tether will fail because it's run by crooks and the claim that it is backed by USD is outright false. Quite a lot of its backing is "commercial paper" which is unsecured loans.
 
jeremyp said:
No. I've seen lots of people telling us it's been explained but I've seen no never bothered to read the actual explanations.
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ftfy.

jeremyp said:
Stable coins aren't supposed to decline - at least, not in comparison to the real currency to which they are allegedly pegged.
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I have never believed that claim.
 
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Bitcoin is so yesterday.

The big area for scamming at the moment is NFTs in MMORPGs
Check out Earth 2, Archeworld, Metastorm, Ateron and a host of others.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Bitcoin is so yesterday.

The big area for scamming at the moment is NFTs in MMORPGs
Check out Earth 2, Archeworld, Metastorm, Ateron and a host of others.
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In fairness, Bitcoin is permanent, but value indeterminate. Even if market cap descended to 1 billion it would be a triumph for the computer coders.
 
jeremyp said:
What aspects?
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Ponzi scheme usually works with investment and returns, which are taken from investments of new users. No other transaction is possible. Price is fixed. It's centralized. Usually does not have global reach. Usually is not electronic. Usually actually you buy something physical (or service) for you investment. It would be easier to sum what's similar with ponzi scheme: people invest money into it in believe they will make money, while it's clear that most of them won't. Also the fact the investors usually do not understand the mechanism well. And that's about it.

jeremyp said:
So is a Ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff got money by selling something to people who wanted to be in his "fund". When people wanted to withdraw money from the fund, he paid them off by using money from people buying into the fund. That's exactly how Bitcoin works. OK, the trades are a bit more direct but that's it.

The purpose of a commodity is not to store value or be a means of exchange. If you can use it for that purpose, that is coincidental.
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Is gold commodity or ponzi scheme then ?

jeremyp said:
So it's not a commodity. It's not a commodity. It's not a currency. What is it? Why the **** do we need it?
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Why do we need gold ? Why can't you accept it's simply something new ? Something which has features of commodities, also features of currencies, and also has features nothing else has.
 
carlitos said:
Cryptos pull many of the same offshore shenanigans as poker sites did. Key example would be Tether moving from bank to bank to bank before settling at Deltec in the Bahamas. Enforcement and KYC would devastate the industry. It’s not a coincidence that many of the crypto lawyers, Caribbean banks and even financial officers came from online poker.
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I don't think it's a coincidence that the rise of crypto fits in with the collapse of online poker and an awful lot of long time HODLers are former online poker crushers.

When the UIGEA passed back in 2006 the idea of a internet based currency became a thing in the pokersphere out of concern of the crackdown that finally happened a few years later. It didn't become all that big of a factor as to playing poker because it wasn't all that practical, but that had to be a significant factor in how we got from there to here.
 
Well certainly early bitcoin adopters are people who used online money transfer early. In early days people had to get creative to get bitcoin for money, as there were no exchanges. You had to know somebody willing to trade. Or mine it, of course.
 
carlitos said:
The coins I listed are all “stable” coins that lost their dollar peg and crashed, because in reality they weren’t worth $1. USDFlex is in a death spiral today. Tether is the next big one that will fail. USDC is allegedly the most stable of stablecoins, so rather like the tallest midget.
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I'm not a firm believer in the stable coins. I do tend to use USDC routinely though, but I wouldn't want to leave funds converted to USDC long term either.
 
jeremyp said:
Except you can sell gold to people who want to make jewellery.
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That's true! Lots of people use gold to make Jewelry. With bitcoin you're limited to selling it to people who only want to make money. Not very artistic IMO.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Well certainly early bitcoin adopters are people who used online money transfer early. In early days people had to get creative to get bitcoin for money, as there were no exchanges. You had to know somebody willing to trade. Or mine it, of course.
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Exactly. That's what led to Bitcoin Pizza day.
 
psionl0 said:
And not long after that, demand for this useless product that has "no intrinsic value" became so great that exchanges sprang up to facilitate their trade.
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Exchanges which now regularly deny people access to their [fake] money. Buy the "dip," suckers!
 
Energy Costs Soaring, Bitcoin's Price Plummeting by George Glover

Even those larger players don't hold enough bitcoin to meaningfully
move the token's price. But analysts said that some mining companies
could collapse if their profits continue to slump, or if they've taken out
bitcoin-backed loans.

"Many miners took out high-interest loans to fund their mine-to-hold
strategy during the bull market," Sami Kassab, analyst at research
firm Messari Crypto, told Insider. "Some of these companies will face
liquidations and could potentially go under."

All eyes are now on the mining companies that have taken out bitcoin-backed
loans, which is seen as putting them at risk of financial pain. These companies
will likely have to continue selling bitcoin at a discount, according to JPMorgan.

"Offloading of bitcoins by miners, in order to meet ongoing costs or to
delever, could continue into the third quarter if their profitability fails to
improve," a team of JP Morgan strategists led by Nikolaos Panigirtzoglou
said in a note.
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If energy consumes 80% of the profits [!] then a 10% rise in energy costs
or a 10% decline in price will wipe out most major players, leaving behind
part time enthusiasts who don't care much about the energy cost.
 
Solitaire said:
If energy consumes 80% of the profits [!] then a 10% rise in energy costs
or a 10% decline in price will wipe out most major players, leaving behind
part time enthusiasts who don't care much about the energy cost.
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Not necessarily. Many may be prepared to operate at a loss for a few years in the expectation of another price recovery.

Even if some get out of mining altogether, the cost of mining will decrease for the remainder and thus they will find it profitable again. So it is unlikely that mining activity will ever decrease to the level of part time enthusiasts only and even if it did, they would find the cost of mining to be quite modest.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Or not .. but I certainly bet on further decline ..
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It took 4 days but 19,000 now.
Requiem to 20,000, the worthlessness of the token is becoming apparent. and Charlie and Warren are celebrating with cherry cola.
 
Samson said:
It took 4 days but 19,000 now.
Requiem to 20,000, the worthlessness of the token is becoming apparent. and Charlie and Warren are celebrating with cherry cola.
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It's still 6 times more than March 2020. So nothing really out of ordinary.
Bottoms on logarithmic graph line up quite well since forever. 20 is somewhat bellow that line though.
So as always .. it's either good time to buy .. or the end :D
 
jeremyp said:
So is a Ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff got money by selling something to people who wanted to be in his "fund". When people wanted to withdraw money from the fund, he paid them off by using money from people buying into the fund. That's exactly how Bitcoin works. OK, the trades are a bit more direct but that's it.
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With Bernie, he would pay you with other people's money and tell you he sold some stocks for it.

With Bitcoin, and stocks, bonds and everything else in the economy, for you to sell it someone else needs to buy it, and vise-versa. This is normally an anonymous process, but it is different from a pyramid scheme.
 
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