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Birthright Citizenship

Thunder said:
oh, and btw, North America was not "stolen" from the Native Americans.

it was conquered. just like how all the European tribes conquered the lands that eventually came to be known as independent states, such as Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Holland, Italy, etc etc.
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Who did the Norwegians conquer Norway from? :confused:
 
Thunder said:
I have seen no evidence that our existing immigration system is too slow, unfare, too rigid, discriminatory, etc etc.
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It is likely just next to the evidence of the problems caused by our current constitution.

I have never heard a legal immigrant complain about how crappy the system is. I currently work with 4 in my immediate office, and possibly 100 more in my office building.
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I managed the visa process for a small company with a high number of foreign employees and I can tell you that it was very expensive for the company, took a lot of time and effort, and was stressful for the applicants. But, they were allowed to work while the process was underway and their costs were covered by the company. We had pretty decent outside counsel that knew the ropes.

I don't see how that is at all comparable to a private individual going through the process on their own.

But for the sake of this thread, I will ask them tomorrow.
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I'm sure they will thank you for asking. :rolleyes:
 
TragicMonkey said:
Birth seems a good one to me, as it's beyond the control of the person born so it can't have been arranged out of ill intent. Born in America, you're an American. Simple, easy, and fair. Founding Fathers tested and approved!
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Since the 14th amendment was passed in 1868, you guys must have had some really long living founding fathers.. :)

TragicMonkey said:
Of course. Don't you get it? All land is stolen from someone. Even the Native Americans were always stealing it from each other. Unless you discover land that's never been seen before, and how often is that the case?
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Well, there's Iceland...
 
Thunder said:
Britain used to be controlled by Celtish tribes.

than Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Normans invaded. They conquered the island, and now the Celts live in the far north and west of the island, still under some control of the conquering poeples and their descendants.

do you consider Great Britain to be..stolen land?
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No but Hawaii is a stolen land
 
Thunder said:
I am an American. If my child is born in Russia when I am vacationing in Russia, I want my child to be an American citizen, not a Russian citizen.

Why the hell would I want my child to automatically become a citizen of Libya, South Africa, Japan, or Indonesia, just cause we are there on vacation for a week?

Birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens is laughable.
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It doesn't exactly happen "automatically" even in the US. You have to go through a legal process involving a few steps (getting the birth certificate, applying for a passport, etc.). I know this from personal experience, as I once assisted a couple that came to the US to have their child. I felt honored (and a little puzzled) that they would go to such lengths to ensure US citizenship for her.

I've never been able to understand why any country wouldn't grant citizenship to babies born within its boundaries, or why anyone has any problem with the idea.

If you made citizenship hereditary only you'd create a class of people that have lived for generations in your country but are not citizens, and at the same time another class that emigrated generations back, no long speak your language or are familiar with your culture, and but still are citizens. What a mess.
 
sol invictus said:
If you made citizenship hereditary only you'd create a class of people that have lived for generations in your country but are not citizens, and at the same time another class that emigrated generations back, no long speak your language or are familiar with your culture, and but still are citizens. What a mess.
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I don't know how it is in other countries, but no one is living in Norway for generations without getting citizenship. You can apply for citizenship after living here for five years, and it will be granted unless there are very special circumstances.

Likewise, if you are born abroad to parents with Norwegian citizenship you're not given citizenship unless you (or your parents) want it. There aren't flocks of Norwegian descended immigrants in the US still carrying Norwegian citizenship. Note that Norway still has military conscription, so not everyone would want citizenship for their kids.

But simply swinging by Norway to pop out a kid doesn't grant the kid the rights and privileges of Norwegian citizenship.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
Becasue that is exactly what will happen if the 14th amendment gets changed. First the children of illigal aliens will be barred from citizenship, then the children of legal resident aleins, then only those whose grandparents were citizens. It's a slippery slope, where do you stop?
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How far down the slope have Britain, France, Norway (basically all Western Europe) gone?
 
A Laughing Baby said:
Has anyone in this thread brought up the inconvenient fact of how unbelievably difficult it is to become a United States citizen legally? If you are an unskilled worker, the wait list approaches infinity in time. It's not as if people who are illegal immigrants just feel like purposely avoiding the immigration system. Not to say that every illegal immigrant comes here with honest intentions, but it's also not as if it's a universal scam on the American taxpayer. It's just very difficult to become a legal immigrant at this point in time.
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Because America needs more unskilled workers :rolleyes:
 
Thunder said:
I am an American. If my child is born in Russia when I am vacationing in Russia, I want my child to be an American citizen, not a Russian citizen.

Why the hell would I want my child to automatically become a citizen of Libya, South Africa, Japan, or Indonesia, just cause we are there on vacation for a week?

Birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens is laughable.
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Who flies to a foreign country when they have a baby due in the first place?
 
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