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Bioepistemic Evolution and the Origin of Life

Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
924
As some readers may recall, I am interested in developing a general form of evolutionary theory that is data-centred rather than gene-centred. I have christened this form of evolutionary theory "Bioepistemic Evolution." Initially I used this new form of evolutionary theory to give an account of some human biological traits that seemed to depend upon coevolution between social knowledge (rank3 evolving data) and genetic knowledge (rank1 evolving data) – these being human sexuality and then the phenomenon of humour. I made these studies available to readers on my web site Sex and Philosophy.

Later I shifted the focus of my work toward applying bioepistemic evolution to developing a theory for the origin of life. To that end, a few years ago, I presented a poster at an RS meeting to indicate how this form of evolutionary theory could account for the origin of biochemical pathways, that study being entitled "The Theory of Prebiotic Oscillations." Later, I used the same approach to understanding the origin of chiral specificity. These two studies were also I made available on the above web site.

I have continued my interest in the origin of life and am now making my latest study on this topic available to readers. The new study is an extension of the previous work and is entitled "Energy Metabolism and the Evolutionary Origin of Cells." It is not located on "Sex and Philosophy" but on the "Evolution and Origin" web site – which is also my own but uses a more generally appropriate domain name.

The link is "http://www.evolution-origin.co.uk"
on which I expect to locate most of my forthcoming work. The new study can be found under the rank0 B button.

The aim of "Energy Metabolism and the Evolutionary Origin of Cells" is to use bioepistemic evolution to provide a new and chemically plausible account of the origins of several aspects of life.

Specifically,
To describe the chemical nature of the first “protocells,” these being viewed as oil droplets surrounded by a boundary layer of monosaccharides and polysaccharides.
It argues that anaerobic glycolysis first arose on those oil droplets and suggests how and why it became coupled to oxidative phosphorylation as part of energy metabolism.
To show origins for the energy transducing nucleotide triphophates ATP, ITP, UTP and CTP, which derive from the purine bases adenosine and inosine (or hypoxanthine) and the pyrimidine bases uridine and cytosine.
The accretion to those droplets of the metabolic processes that produced the amino acids, thereby producing the amino acids themselves.
Similarly, the processes that produced the fatty acids as the amphiphilic substances that would have accumulated on oil droplet surfaces, so stabilizing those droplets.
The emergence of macromolecules, as homeostatic energy reservoirs, including:-
Polysaccharides. A form of RNA that predominantly used the bases A, U, C and I. The proteins, formed from the alpha amino acids, including the reason the amino acids found in current proteins came to be selected and why enzyme catalysis became associated with those proteins.
Lipids, lipid bilayer membranes and cell walls, along with the reasons for metabolism being largely contained within them.
Bacterial “protocell” structures, with a membrane-wall-membrane morphology similar to that found in current day, gram-negative bacteria, though lacking any genetic apparatus.
In short, this study begins with some fairly moderate assumptions, namely the existence of a random “prebiotic soup” and the validity of the theory of prebiotic oscillations, described previously. However, from there it will develop the concept of the protocell as a three-dimensional object of a type likely to occur within that soup. From those assumptions, it will suggest mechanisms for the evolutionary emergence of all the main classes of metabolite, metabolic process, macromolecule and supramolecular structure found in modern bacteria, excepting only the genetic apparatus.
I would be interested in any feedback readers may wish to offer.
 
You write very well and are very articulate. Why not put those skills into something worthwhile instead of a crackpot exercise?
 
You write very well and are very articulate. Why not put those skills into something worthwhile instead of a crackpot exercise?

Thank you for your compliments regarding my writing style. However, you should note that my principal skills are in science, not prose construction, and I believe that my work is worthwhile.

It seems to me that reconstructing evolutionary theory in such a way as to give it a logical and scientifically coherent foundation, something it presently lacks, is of obvious value. Bioepistemic evolution is such a reconstruction and, unlike genetics, should in principle be applicable to any evolving system, including both those found outside of biology and those found in areas of biology where conventional genetic approaches fail. There are, in fact, numerous areas to which those conventional approaches do clearly fail, and one of them is the origin of life. That is why I have chosen it as an area where it might be fruitful to apply bioepistemic evolution.

Judging from the intemperate tone of your last sentence, you seem to take an exception to some aspect or other of my work. Would you be kind enough to specify that aspect and to clarify the exact nature of your problem with it?
 
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At a glance, that seems like a rather impressive body of work.
Some of this seems pretty correct to me, if my understanding is correct. Yes, organisms could be considered "bags of data" and, therefore, their evolution could be considered the evolution of the data they represent. I am not sure why you divorce that from the genome's evolution, though. Sure, there is a bit of arbitrary involved in the genetic code, for example; and this too can evolve; but it seems pretty peripheric...

Anyway, you seem like a very bright and knowledgeable fellow, but I am not sure of what new elements your theory brings...
Did you submit any research for peer-reviewed publication?
 
Yes, well written, and on the whole within the realms of reality. I must echo Simon though:

I am not sure of what new elements your theory brings...

Turning one type of data (genes) into another type ("Bioepistemic"), is still the same thing. Currently we have no other examples to apply this to, so the only thing it well get applied to is the genetic form of evolutionary data transfer.

Now, should we discover that there are totally new and different mechanisms at work someplace else (Mars, Europa, etc.) you should be set! :)
 
It seems to me that reconstructing evolutionary theory in such a way as to give it a logical and scientifically coherent foundation, something it presently lacks, is of obvious value.
I don't have a problem with your general work, or ideas. (at least not yet)

But, what I do have a problem with is how you unjustifiably insult modern evolutionary theory. The theory IS quite logical, and scientifically coherent. It DOES form a productive foundation for solving problems in the various fields of, and related to, biology. It has a rich history of impacting our lives in medical research, agriculture, species conservation, and even in unraveling the origins of life.

Why do you feel compelled to knock down such a scientific foundation? Are your own ideas too weak to stand on their own? If you think the answer is "no", then prove it!
 
As some readers may recall, I am interested in developing a general form of evolutionary theory that is data-centred rather than gene-centred. I have christened this form of evolutionary theory "Bioepistemic Evolution." Initially I used this new form of evolutionary theory to give an account of some human biological traits that seemed to depend upon coevolution between social knowledge (rank3 evolving data) and genetic knowledge (rank1 evolving data) – these being human sexuality and then the phenomenon of humour.


Sounds a bit like the "extended phenotype".
 
Initially I used this new form of evolutionary theory to give an account of some human biological traits that seemed to depend upon coevolution between social knowledge (rank3 evolving data) and genetic knowledge (rank1 evolving data) – these being human sexuality and then the phenomenon of humour. I made these studies available to readers on my web site Sex and Philosophy.


I am not sure about where you are going there, the biological parameters are set by the genetics of the system level behaviors (IE gross scale neurology and specific chemical interactions likes enzyme gradients), but the actual behaviors of humor and sexuality are not genetically programmed. (From the current data.)
 
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It seems to me that reconstructing evolutionary theory in such a way as to give it a logical and scientifically coherent foundation, something it presently lacks, is of obvious value.
Um, that seems to be a rather bold and broad assertion without definition or citations to demonstrate exactly what you think you mean. :)
Bioepistemic evolution is such a reconstruction and, unlike genetics, should in principle be applicable to any evolving system, including both those found outside of biology and those found in areas of biology where conventional genetic approaches fail.
And where exactly would those be?
There are, in fact, numerous areas to which those conventional approaches do clearly fail, and one of them is the origin of life.
Really, is that because the appearance of genes comes after the development of life, so while you are ignoring the theories of abiogenesis, you also seem to find this a failing of current genetic theory, which is a conflation of two separate sets of theories.
:)
 
Thank you for your compliments regarding my writing style. However, you should note that my principal skills are in science, not prose construction, and I believe that my work is worthwhile.

It seems to me that reconstructing evolutionary theory in such a way as to give it a logical and scientifically coherent foundation, something it presently lacks, is of obvious value. Bioepistemic evolution is such a reconstruction and, unlike genetics, should in principle be applicable to any evolving system, including both those found outside of biology and those found in areas of biology where conventional genetic approaches fail. There are, in fact, numerous areas to which those conventional approaches do clearly fail, and one of them is the origin of life. That is why I have chosen it as an area where it might be fruitful to apply bioepistemic evolution.

Judging from the intemperate tone of your last sentence, you seem to take an exception to some aspect or other of my work. Would you be kind enough to specify that aspect and to clarify the exact nature of your problem with it?
You need to expound on where biological science in current scientific theories fail. Apparently you feel you have something better so please tell us where and how you came about your alternant theories.
 
I applaud your effort. You've put some time into this. I'm not smart enough to judge the work on its own merits, though.
 
I fail to see how your new hypotheses are able to describe and predict reality any more accurately then the currently accepted theories of evolution. Perhaps you can explain?
 
Yes, organisms could be considered "bags of data" and, therefore, their evolution could be considered the evolution of the data they represent. I am not sure why you divorce that from the genome's evolution, though. Sure, there is a bit of arbitrary involved in the genetic code, for example; and this too can evolve; but it seems pretty peripheric...
I don't divorce the data in the genome from the organism, I incorporate that as part of rank1 evolution, but the point is that most organisms use other forms of data as well, such as sensory data - rank2 - and socially inherited data - rank3.
Anyway, you seem like a very bright and knowledgeable fellow, but I am not sure of what new elements your theory brings...
The capacity to analyze rank1 evolution in a new (I think better) way and the capacity to analyze phenomena involving other ranks at all.
Did you submit any research for peer-reviewed publication?
Absolutely not. I have worked in science and I have a jaundiced view of its workings - you might want to look at "A Habit of Lies." After publishing more than a dozen, peer-reviewed scientific papers, I can honestly tell you I only once read a useful review. Peer review is barely better than a forum like this. The fact is, I can be ignored or read anonymous, nonsensical commentaries without first being peer-reviewed and this way my work is harder to rip off - which would not be my first such experience.
 
I do have a problem with .. how you unjustifiably insult modern evolutionary theory. The theory IS quite logical, and scientifically coherent. It DOES form a productive foundation for solving problems in the various fields of, and related to, biology. It has a rich history of impacting our lives in medical research, agriculture, species conservation, and even in unraveling the origins of life.

Why do you feel compelled to knock down such a scientific foundation? Are your own ideas too weak to stand on their own? If you think the answer is "no", then prove it!
I agree that genetics, the science of breeding, is quite logical, scientifically coherent and well-founded. I agree that it is productive in the ways you indicate. It is the link between genetics and evolutionary theory that I dislike and find illogical and I am not aware that it has been productive.

I am not insulting the field - that would be impossible since the field is inanimate and therefore without feelings. I am not trying to knock the field down. I am trying to put it into its proper place.
 
You need to expound on where biological science in current scientific theories fail. Apparently you feel you have something better so please tell us where and how you came about your alternant theories.
I have previously pointed out three areas where genetic approaches to evolution have so far failed and would be expected to continue failing, these being human sexuality, humour and origin of life. I mention these because I have either previously studied them or am doing so now. There are several other areas that would merit investigation and one would expect genetic theories of evolution to fail in any area where large amount of non-genetic data was co-evolving with the genetic data. The origins and workings of the brain and sensory apparatus would be another case in point.
 
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I fail to see how your new hypotheses are able to describe and predict reality any more accurately then the currently accepted theories of evolution. Perhaps you can explain?

Currently accepted theories of evolution are based on genes as their fundamental unit.
Many forms of evolution only involve data that is not in genes at all. Other forms of evolution do involve the data in genes but also involves other forms of data. Bioepistemic evolution is expected to be better paradigm for these two forms of evolution because genetics cannot sensibly be applied to them.
Bioepistemic evolution may also be the preferred paradigm in purely genetic forms of evolution but whether that is so might depend upon the nature of the desired study.
 
The capacity to analyze rank1 evolution in a new (I think better) way
I do not think that answers the question. We want to know what new insights this brings to the table. Stuff we would not have been able to figure out, otherwise. Be as specific as possible.

and the capacity to analyze phenomena involving other ranks at all.
But, we CAN analyze those phenomena. And, in evolutionary terms, as well.

Though, I think your "ranking" of data could be potentially troublesome. Sensory data is not subject to the same process of selection as genes or... (I know you hate this word)... memes. What is the ranking system based on?

It is the link between genetics and evolutionary theory that I dislike and find illogical and I am not aware that it has been productive.
Erm...

I know you are not a Creationist. (Based on past discussions.) But, this sounds almost exactly like something a Creationist would do: Deny evolution exists, by calling everything that applies to it something else, like "breeding"!

Have you seen this, yet?: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=47

I am not insulting the field - that would be impossible since the field is inanimate and therefore without feelings.
Hardy, har har.

I am not trying to knock the field down. I am trying to put it into its proper place.
I am not so sure that thing you are putting into its proper place is really the accepted science of evolution. It sounds suspiciously like some mal-interpreted form of it.
 
Currently accepted theories of evolution are based on genes as their fundamental unit.
Many forms of evolution only involve data that is not in genes at all. Other forms of evolution do involve the data in genes but also involves other forms of data. Bioepistemic evolution is expected to be better paradigm for these two forms of evolution because genetics cannot sensibly be applied to them.
Bioepistemic evolution may also be the preferred paradigm in purely genetic forms of evolution but whether that is so might depend upon the nature of the desired study.

So what, if not the genome, epigenetics and cytoplasmic elements, holds this information which evolves? Remember, it must be passed on over generations, it must be readable in some meaningful way, it must replicate, or be able to be replicated, and it must be capable of sequential change.
 
I have previously pointed out three areas where genetic approaches to evolution have so far failed and would be expected to continue failing, these being human sexuality, humour and origin of life. I mention these because I have either previously studied them or am doing so now. There are several other areas that would merit investigation and one would expect genetic theories of evolution to fail in any area where large amount of non-genetic data was co-evolving with the genetic data. The origins and workings of the brain and sensory apparatus would be another case in point.

As a molecular biologist, I again have to second the previous posts in that you seem to have a well written and thought out theory, but I do feel that you claim failures of the current genetic approaches in area's where the theory and practice was never ment to work.
Human sexuality (and I presume you mean sexual preference, not the actual sex selection or reproduction) and humour could in theory be described by genetics provided we'd know everything and have computers powerful enough to simulate every single input on every single cell on a human over the course of his/her life. In the same way that chemistry or even quantum physiscs could explain these phenomena.
However:
1, we dont know everything there is to know about gene expression.
2, we don't have computers powerful enough and
3, the current genetic theory field and work is not designed for such questions nor do most scientists think it will be in the forseeable future.

As for the theory of evolution with genetics not being coductive to explaining the origin of life, this has been awnsered in previous posts, but for completion:
The theories for the origin of life are called abiogenesis (or creation for some out there). There are a number out there of varying degrees of quality and plausability with various amounts of experimental data to back them up. Only once you have a self replicating unit does genetic evolution start being relevant.
 

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