Bioelectromagnetics

Prester John said:
Anyone else done that little experiment Mr Coghill ? Any independent verification ?

Does this help any?

From: http://www.goaegis.com/articles/coghill_013199_X5G7.html

Endogenous Fields And Human Peripheral Blood Lymphocytes: A Big Breakthrough In Biology.
Drs. Tamara Galonja-Coghill and Roger Coghill
January 31, 1999

Recently in our laboratory Tamara and I have been investigating the importance of endogenous electric fields. These are the fields emitted by every living creature as a result of internal processes such as heart regulation, brain rhythms, muscular activity and the like.

Last March (1998) we first conducted an experiment where we extracted white blood cells essential to immune comptetence and tumour protection, called lymphocytes, from a human donor. We put them into three 1ml sealed glass containers and then into a mu-metal box protecting them from external readiative influences thereby. Into one of the containers we fed a gold wire attached to the donor's skin surface, and taped the mu-metal box to the donor's forearm overnight. The second container only had the cell culture (control), and the third container had a gold wire sealed inside it, but going nowhere (sham-exposed).

The next day we checked the cell cultures in the three containers for viability using a standard test known as trypan blue exclusion. In this test any cells whose "skin" (plasma membrane) has been damaged turn bright blue, but intact cells stay white. So one can count both types to see how viable is the culture of interest.

We found that the cells exposed to the donor's cutaneous (endogenous) electric fields stayed significantly more viable than the controls and the sham-exposed: exposed cells were usually more than 70% viable, whereas unexposed cells treated in exactly the same conditions were never more than 50% viable the next day. Over the next month we repeated this test six times, always with the same result, and eventually had counted (blind) some 10,000 cells. ("Blind" means that the person counting the cells under the microscope does not know from which container they have come). Then we substituted an ELF field (50Hz,. square wave, 32mV) and found that this damaged the cells more than normal. The same when an RF/MW field from a mobile phone on standby (ETACS, 900MHz.)was used.

Finally we wondered if any endogenous human field would be protective, but found that only the donor's field has a protective effect. This last study was scrutineered by scientists from Oxford University and the Karolinska Institute, who came to our laboratory and stayed several days while the study was repeated.

Why were they so interested? It is because this is the first time any experiment has shown the existence of an important protective biological mechanism at levels of electric field strength so weak that it is far below thermal levels. It is clear that this hitherto unsuspected communications mechanism between immune system cells and the electric field present in all of us plays a vital role in self-recognition. Because we used a gold wire to feed in the signal, it is also evident that the communication does not involve any chemical reaction or magnetic fields, but that the signals are solely electric or possibly photonic in nature.

We have been invited to repeat the experiment (this will be the fourteenth time!) at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden under the surveillance of their neuroscience department.

Because electric fields are additive our study shows for the first time unequivocally how other weak fields such as from powerlines or cellphones are disturbing this communications mechanism. Physicists can no longer argue that the artificial fields cannot have any biological effect. It really is a big insight into how the weak fields of modern technology sometimes disturb our health, and has many practical implications for modern life. These influences may not always be adverse, by the way.
 
and you are about to now answer the real questions in my post .........................................................

or just ignore them?
 
cogreslab said:
So I have designed and built a Coghill Skeptometer in our lab. This instrument is loaded now with 100 points. Everytime a post appears on this thread containing an unsupported value judgement (a "UVJ") 1 point will be deducted by the meter. The count down begins with the next UVJ.

Oh dear, that makes my point perfectly. You should leave the construction of complex instruments to people who actually know what they are doing.

Sorry Rog, it's broken. If it was working it should have shot off the scale as soon as you switched it on, based on your posts alone! :)

Take it to a real engineer and maybe he can fix it, there's a good chap.
 
To PJ:

You said:

It has been shown conclusively that cancer is caused by mutations.

Not so. The level of proof is no greater or different than it has been proved just how red trucks (sometimes with ladders attached) cause house fires. Mutation is a product of carcinogenesis, not the other way around. The carcinogen can cause a mutation, but this leaves out a number of steps (such as the switched metabolic pathway). The mutation is a response to a carcinogenic stressor not the other way around. If it is then passed on by mitosis this is not inconsistent with my hypothesis (or that of Szent Gyorgii, Warburg, and William Koch).

Regarding William Koch, some previous post called him a loon, when he was actually a professor of Physiology at what is now Wayne State University. Fortunately the Skeptometer is not retrospective.
 
cogreslab said:
R11:

(On what basis do you make the following statement: "With a finite amount of carcinogen available, if cancer was caused by chemical interaction, then your carcinogen would run out and hey presto no more cancerous cells?")

I never said this. I think you must be confusing me with some other poster.
Yes, I did confuse PJ's response with your original statement. PJ's was a reductio ad absurdum of your cancer claims. Rephrasing, then:

11. Please respond to this logical consequence of your claims about cancer: "With a finite amount of carcinogen available, if cancer was caused by chemical interaction, then your carcinogen would run out and hey presto no more cancerous cells?"
 
Bill, please would you add this question to the list of ducked questions. Thanks.

Q: Which textbook shows Maxwell's equations in a different ordering to the standard ordering?
 
It's amazing what one can find on google! I got a very distinct feeling of Deja Vu here! :)

I gather from these (and other related) messages that Roger submitted his theory of "endogenous fields" to the Bioelectromagnetics Society who then rejected it on the grounds that it disclosed no credible mechanism - Roger, please correct that if wrong.

It's sad really, 3 years and he STILL hasn't learned any of the basics...!

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bioelectromagnetics/message/373

From: priu@e...
Date: Fri Mar 30, 2001 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: [bioelectromagnetics] Re: Re Detection of humans

Dear Roger (and all participants),

I have been following the discussion in a random way (reading only
one out of every 4 or 5 mails).
If there is a problem of a scientific work being rejected by a revision
panel, well, OK every one of us have had these kind of
experiences, and some of the mails provided good advice for that.
Please follow them, it would help your research.
I didn't want to say anything in the matter, apart from the fact that
my mailbox gets spawned with things that do not matter to me.

However, after reading your explanation about how electric fields
are produced and transmitted, I would like to suggest you to read a
good book in electrophysiology: there are no free electrons in the
human body. Currents and fields are produced by ions: that's why
you need an electrode to connect to electronics circuits. Moreover,
these fields are not "emitted", at least not at ECG or EEG
frequencies. And, furthermore, if there is any current, charges must
move, by definition of current. A different thing is how electric field
propagates.
In my opinion you better go back to electromagnetics 001 before
trying to teach grandma to suck eggs.

Pere Riu

Departament d'Enginyeria Electronica
Universitat Politecnica de Catalunya
c/ Jordi Girona 1-3, Edifici C4
08034 Barcelona, Spain
tel: +34-93-401.67.68
fax: +34-93-401.67.56
email: priu@e...

---------------------------

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bioelectromagnetics/message/374

From: roger@m...
Date: Fri Mar 30, 2001 10:12 pm
Subject: Re: Re Detection of humans

Dear Pere Riu,

Thank you for your helpful critical comments. In fact I am grateful
for the many comments which have come in about this simple study. Yes
of course the body does not like free electrons except in some
processes where they briefly appear - I am thinking for example of
the transient conversion of ubiquinone into semiubiquinone during its
electron transport towards ATP synthesis - and generally free
unpaired electrons are mopped up by antioxidants such as catalase
superoxide dismutase and glutathione.

But there is no need for a return pathway for signal transduction.
May I suggest the simple example of an electric kettle connected to
the live electricity socket, but not switched on. In this case there
is no circuit, and no current, but every part of the cable even
though showing a net zero voltage, will have an electric field at
50/60 Hz and would "sense" these frequencies. The same is true for
the lymphocytes: they would sense the field and its far more
complicated frequencies being generated from the cutaneous surface of
the donor along the wire.

You can confirm this experimentally using any electric field probe:
while the "wire" is connected you will find there is an electric
field at any part of it, and this goes for any highly conductive
medium including extracellular fluids, which of course are well
endowed with ions (Na, Cl etc.).

I apologise for having been somewhat sloppy in my earlier message.

Best, Roger Coghill
 
cogreslab said:
To PJ:

You said:

It has been shown conclusively that cancer is caused by mutations.

Not so. The level of proof is no greater or different than it has been proved just how red trucks (sometimes with ladders attached) cause house fires. Mutation is a product of carcinogenesis, not the other way around. The carcinogen can cause a mutation, but this leaves out a number of steps (such as the switched metabolic pathway). The mutation is a response to a carcinogenic stessor not the other way around. If it is then passed on by mitosis this is not inconsistenmt with my hypothesis (or that of Szent Gyorgii, Warburg, and William Koch).

Regarding William Koch, some previous post called him a loon, when he was actually a professor of Physiology at what is now Wayne State University. Fortunately the Skeptometer is not retrospective.




No, the evidence is quite considerable that its the genetic mutations that cause Cancer. You have just made a whole bunch of unsupported assertions. Your evidence is woefully short, half a dozen papers, all over 25 yrs old.

You have to admit that genetic damage is caused in cancerous cells. It must happen in all cells because the damage is hereditary. So when you say "the carcinogen can cause a mutation", more accurately you should say "the carcinogen always causes a mutation". Is this not so?

Is it not also true that the genes involved are those involved in induction of cellular proliferation, inhibition of cellular proliferation and regulation of apoptosis ?

(What do you think about the work with Rous Sarcoma Virus?)

Proteins in cells are continually recylcled. A defective protein will sooner rather than later be recyled. Unless it is replaced by another defective protein, then its damage capability is over.

Try this:

Weinberg, RA. 1996 How Cancer Arises. Sci Am. 275(3):62

or this:

DeVita, VT, S Hellman, SA Rosenberg 1997. Cancer Principles @ Practice of Oncology, 5th Ed.
 
Another amusing (and worrying!) tidbit, courtesy of Google.


From: http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/2001 February.htm

Porcine Avionics section

The Times must be pulling our legs! They announced on February 5th that Roger Coghill has been invited to sit on a Government panel to monitor the safety of mobile phone technology. If you would like to savour the true scientific glory of Dr Coghill's work see the Weird Guys section of our links.

The Times also tells us that Dr Coghill, an independent scientist who runs Coghill Research Laboratories in South Wales, is an expert in bioelectromagnetics, the study of the effects of electromagnetic radiation on living tissue. Number Watch, which is edited by Albert Einstein, naturally accepts the truth of what it is told.

But we have not heard the last of the Doctor. This week he is planning to announce the results of tests on a silver pendant, invented by a Japanese researcher, that he has found to protect cells against the effects of mobile phone radiation. He has previously accused the Government of seeking to cover up studies that cast doubt on mobile phone safety, and is among the most prominent scientists to raise safety fears about the use of depleted uranium in military shells.

In the same vein, the UN announced that Global Warming would cost £200 billion a year (exit left pursued by a levitating mammal of the family Suidae).
 
Not so. The level of proof is no greater or different than it has been proved just how red trucks (sometimes with ladders attached) cause house fires.

Just to really kick this into touch, i shall relink to a page i posted earlier. It is about the Rous Sarcoma Virus, the original work got Peyton Rous a Nobel prize in recognition for his work unlocking the secrets of Cancer.

If you don't want to read it all, basically the page has details where they put the src gene into cells. This gene transforms cells ie makes the cells cancerous. However they also changed the src gene ever so slightly to make the protein it encoded heat sensitive - at 41 C the protein is denatured, at 35 C the protein is normal.

So the transfected cells at 35 C are cancerous, when the temperature is increased to 41 the cells become normal and exhibit contact inhibition. Its like a switch, you can do it repeatedly. Thus expression of the src gene is all that is needed to transform the cells.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/RSV.html

Its powerful, simple and replicable. Check.
 
cogreslab said:
To Hans:

You said:

You have not shown the existence of an endogenous field that is characteristic to the individual, and indeed such a field is not known to science.

Can I point you to

a) Bioelectromagnetic Bioinformation, Urban and Schwarzenberg, Munich, 1989 (Popp, Warnke et al, eds.) Prof Ulrich Warnke is at the University of the Saarland, which some would claim is a scientific institution of repute.

b) the forthcoming Gordon Confernce on endogenous fields at Boston, 20 July 2004. May be you should visit it?.

Skeptometer now reads 98 points.

http://www.uni-saarland.de/fak8/warnke/index.htm

"Neben diesen Kräften spielen auch die piezoelektrischen Felder von Kollagen, Keratin u.a. Proteinen eine größere Rolle."

Piezoelectric fields from proteins? WTF??

"Zur Akupunkturbehandlung kann die Amplitude von Stufe 5 auf Stufe 3 reduziert werden."

Interesting........

"UNITTRON® M 200 is a unique construction by Warnke Unit GmbH (Ltd) that makes it possible to control an induced amplitude window, which means:

In the induced field of force within the human body H+ ions are moved in electrolytes until they touch the limits. The accumulation of H+ ions on limiting zones neutralize the tangential potential ('Zeta potential') of the fluid sphere of the limiting zone. This will cancel a diffusion barrier and ions of hydrogen and calcium as well as of various substrates and communication substances strongly diffuse from blood, lymph and fluids from between the cells into the tissue cells. This has most important positive effects for the process of regeneration. This process, however, will only work if the Zetapotential is precisely hit. If the induced power fields are large, the fluid interface capacitor is charged inversely; if the power fields are small, the aforementioned effect will not appear.

The monitor was developed to measure the amplitude window. Thus for each patient an individual setting and a subsequent adjustment is no problem anymore."

Mmmm, this Warnke appears to have some unusual ideas. Seems he is no longer at that university? I'll check....


Hans
 
RogerDodger

I shall maintain this running list, and solicit additional questions from other posters. If and when RogerDodger answers a question honestly, I will move that question to the "Answered / Corrected" category, but not before. Each RogerDodger evasive, red herring post will be met with this list until he quits this artful dodger routine.

Unanswered - General

1. (Regarding the Coghill challenge inciting infanticide) Do you believe the infant will die if put to this test or do you believe the infant would be safe?
R1 (response to question 1):

I do not know the full answer to this question because each infant is different and the E-field level will probably vary over time also. This is honestly what I would expect to happen after about eight hours of exposure: I expect the infant will begin to show all the initial signs of SIDS, e.g. pallor, anoxia or hypoxia, or temporary cessation of breathing, overt signs of distress, effort to evade the field, and other signs of "near miss SIDS" reported in the SIDS literature (Jean Golding et al's book on Sudden Infant Death, Open Books, 1985, Chapter three gives a good description of these symptoms as well as chap 15).

I expect the mother will be unable to prevent herself picking up the infant and removing it from the field at this point. About an houir after the infant enjoys the protection of the mother's endogenous field it will recover fully. I will at this point consider the "experiment" over, and that I have proved my prediction. However, should the mother or others decide to re-place the infant in the field, the infant would be in grave danger and I myself would remove it forcibly if necessary, for its own protection. If anyone prevented me from this and the infant was allowed to stay in the field, it woukld probably die within a few days, first having exhibited snuffles, cold-like symptoms and evident signs of trying to evade the feild. It would try to wriggle doan the cot for example, and may get jammed up against the cvot rails at the furthest point of the field strength. I doubt this will ever happen since before any of this I would explain the scientific background to the parents, and I veru much doubt they would wish to cointinue the experiment. As I have said this is simply conjecture ansd speculation, since no one has ever come forward to try.


"The mother's endogenous field"? I asked for truthful answers, sir, not more delusion. You think you are off the hook because you will prevent the infant from enduring the entire test? How so, since you also claim such exposure causes childhood leukemia. How will you remove this harm, sir? Do you sell magic wands that suck up the harm after the fact?


2. (Regarding the Coghill challenge inciting infantiicde) If you believe the infant will die, why are you offering this morally repugnant challenge?

I am issuing this challenge because it is morally repugnant to me that the establishment are fully aware of this problem and have refused to admit it for commercial reasons. By its issue I hope not to actually carry it out but to elicit a response from the NRPB , including an explanation about the secret tests they have carried out at Bristol, never reported, on 32 infants by Dr Fleming there in or around 1990.
An interesting moral equation. It is OK for you to put infants at risk because others have already died and this has been covered up. Can you say bullsh!t?

3. (Regarding the Coghill challenge inciting infanticide) If you don't beleive the infant will die, why are you fraudulently claiming great harm from the power lines?
I believe the infant will die if left in the field for 30 days. I also believe that the electric fields would have been responsible for the sudden unexpected death of a perfectly healthy infant.
Yes, this has been clear. And this has been clearly dodged by you for page after page of this thread. In your answer to 1, however, you speak about warning signs for SIDS. Here you speak of no warning signs for SIDS.

3a. Who is the insurer for this challenge, then, sir, as you have clearly outlined a scenario in which the infant suddenly and unexpectedly would die? Surely you have an insurer for the lawsuit which will follow?

Unanswered - Factual Errors

5. Was not your case "ejected from court," as the BBC put it?
No. The case was heard in its entirety over a two day period.
Two whole days? Wow. The BBC says it was ejected after two days of expert testimony. You didn't even get to examinations of culpability, sir, the magistrates heard enough after simply listening to your pseudoscience. They saw right through it, sir. You keep trying to deflect the facts, but they heard the experts, they yawned and stopped the trial.

6. Did you not claim to the media that you spent over 20,000 pounds bringing the case to trial?
No. In response to a question from a BBC reporter after the case I claimed that the case had probaly cost around £20,000. He/she never asked me if I would have to pay these costs myself, so I had no opportunity of explaining then that the costs were not for my settlement. AT the time I recall that I felt that this question was somewhat irrelevant and trivial compared with the far more important issue of cellphone safety, both then and now.
Read the quote from him/her, the reporter whose gender you can't even remember. The reporter says "personal costs". This has nothing to do with the settlement, sir.

7. Did the court not order your side to pay the defendant's costs, as reported in the media?
To be honest, I cannot remember, but it will presumably be in the court record. All I can say is that I personally paid no costs, and so far as I am aware the NRPB tendered none, nor did anyone else for that matter. Again I never thought this was of any importance compared with the issue of mobile phone safety.
So, the track record so far is you first made us aware of this highly significant case as if you had won it, then we found out otherwise, and now the significance fades in your mind. You can't remember the gender of the reporter. You can't remember the essential outcome of the trial. You keep equivocating on your personal outlays versus your side's outlays. You keep trying to confound the issue of your pre-trial costs and your post-trial settlements.

Very significant case that you're personally responsible for and the details of which fade rapidly under scrutiny.


Unanswered - Scientific Gaffes

4. Do you acknowledge that radio waves continue to self-propogate long after the transmitter's power plug is pulled?
I acknowledge that radio waves will continue to propagate through space at around the speed of light after the transmitter's power is collapsed, but these propagations will attenuate greatly, and not be long in detectable duration. If it were correct that they continue indefinitely as has been suggested so as to reach e.g. ACentauri some light years later, then all radio signals emitted on this planet since the first one would still be there and detectable, which they are not, so far as i know. But I don't beleive in ghosts, which I suppose is how these signals might be described, since I have no real evidence of the phenomenon.

I must add that I never disagreed with this view, i merely said that IMHO Moulder did not explain it very well, because I felt that people might construe his remarks as suggesting that they would still hear such signals later.

Need I quote to you ONCE AGAIN what you actually said, sir?



9. Do you not know bacteria are not animals?
Yes. Aerobic bacteria respire and have independent movement, as do animals, so might satisfy certain definitions of animal, but generally bacteria are not classified to the animal kingdom
More biology expertise here? Some plants, too, sir, does that movement justify calling them animals?

11. Please respond to this logical consequence of your claims about cancer: "With a finite amount of carcinogen available, if cancer was caused by chemical interaction, then your carcinogen would run out and hey presto no more cancerous cells?"

12. If your claim about carcinogens were correct, then why isn't your solution to your supposed power-line-cancers simply to move away? Why will that not cure the cancer?

13. What evidence do you have that "radio waves cause [AIDS] to happen... and the viruses are somehow transmitting itself through the sexual activity," as you've been quoted as saying?

14. What is your evidence that"[t]he frequencies mobile phones use [are] exactly identical to the frequencies with which human skull vibrates," as you've been quoted as saying?

Answered / Corrected

8. Do you not know worms are animals? (Acknowledged.)

10. Do you not know humans are mammals? (Acknowledged)
 
Pragmatist said:


Mu qualifications are hardly relevant since, unlike you, I have never relied on them to back up my arguments, but I have no problem with you knowing. I have an ordinary diploma in pure and applied garbage collection. Satisfied? :)

Are you sure it's not garbage dumping you're qualified in? lol!

Garbo, you spend much time on verbose gum-flappery. But all you have provided is your subjective opinion. Pure and simple. Mr Coghill has gone to great lenght to provide the science, references and sources. All you do is go 'No it's not!'

Sorry, Garbo, but even if you are uneducated you can still be a scientist. You just have to stick to the scientific methods and if you're arguing against a position the burden of proof is on you. Amongst us sceptics it is the rigeur that you must provide credible evidence, sources and references. As Mr Coghill has done. It is the way of things.
 
To Bouncer Bull (sorry, Bill): You said:

"Yes, I did confuse PJ's response with your original statement. PJ's was a reductio ad absurdum of your cancer claims. Rephrasing, then:

11. Please respond to this logical consequence of your claims about cancer: "With a finite amount of carcinogen available, if cancer was caused by chemical interaction, then your carcinogen would run out and hey presto no more cancerous cells?"

Well, well, do I detect an admission that tactically PJ has been using the sophistry of Reductio ad Absurdum instead of solid argument here?

I have addressed the more serious point about how the cancer may be transferred in a previous post, to which as of now there has been no contradiction: the carcinogen will block the ox phos pathway in response to which the cell up/down regulates the cell's gene expression so as to shift to glycolysis as a means of survival (remember all cancer cells are still alive, even though aberrant).

Mitosis at that point will reproduce the transformed cells, which will continue (as in metastasis) even without any further carcinogenic action, until a superior dehydrogenator such as parabenzoquinone arrives to correct the problem (if it ever does) and thereby restore oxidative phosphorylation.

We see this in our lab using PBLs and conducting a glucose oxidase and hexokinase assay (these Sigma Diagnostic kits are available easily for would be replicators) before and after administering the quinone, which shows a slow down in the uptake of glucose after the administration. (we have not published this yet, but will probably present initially at a conference in London in September).

In my view this is a better explanation than the traditional multistage explanation for carcinogenesis, which leaves out the vital steps re metabolic change. These are the steps which Szent Gyorgii added in around 1960, but which William Koch had deduced and proven in clinical practice in the first decades of the 20thC.

Yes, I said in clinical practice:

The cancer mortality figures for Detroit 1920 to 1929 show a 23 percent fall, in a decade where every other major US city was recording increases of up to 32 percent in annual cancer mortality. Koch's quinone-based reagents were the principal cancer treatment modality in Detroit at that time.
 
cogreslab said:
To Bouncer Bull (sorry, Bill): You said:

"Yes, I did confuse PJ's response with your original statement. PJ's was a reductio ad absurdum of your cancer claims. Rephrasing, then:

11. Please respond to this logical consequence of your claims about cancer: "With a finite amount of carcinogen available, if cancer was caused by chemical interaction, then your carcinogen would run out and hey presto no more cancerous cells?"

Well, well, do I detect an admission that tactically PJ has been using the sophistry of Reductio ad Absurdum instead of solid argument here?

Wow, roger, why don't you just make your lack of logical skills as transparent as possible? Reductio ad absurdum
"Reductio ad absurdum is a mode of argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable. It is a style of reasoning that has been employed throughout the history of mathematics and philosophy from classical antiquity onwards"

Wow, roger.
 
Okaaay, there it is, thx Pragmatist, soo let's look at the details after all:

Pragmatist said:
Does this help any?

From: http://www.goaegis.com/articles/coghill_013199_X5G7.html

Endogenous Fields And Human Peripheral Blood Lymphocytes: A Big Breakthrough In Biology.
Drs. Tamara Galonja-Coghill and Roger Coghill
January 31, 1999

Recently in our laboratory Tamara and I have been investigating the importance of endogenous electric fields. These are the fields emitted by every living creature as a result of internal processes such as heart regulation, brain rhythms, muscular activity and the like.

So here we have the definition of endogenous electric fields: Fields from various currents inside the body, mostly EMG (muscles), ECG (heart), and EEG (brain). These are extremely weak fields, both electrical and magnetic fields. The fields are of low impedance and the potentials that generate them are of few millivolts. Frequency range is 0.1-200Hz. Range is short.

Last March (1998) we first conducted an experiment where we extracted white blood cells essential to immune comptetence and tumour protection, called lymphocytes, from a human donor. We put them into three 1ml sealed glass containers and then into a mu-metal box protecting them from external readiative influences thereby. Into one of the containers we fed a gold wire attached to the donor's skin surface, and taped the mu-metal box to the donor's forearm overnight. The second container only had the cell culture (control), and the third container had a gold wire sealed inside it, but going nowhere (sham-exposed).

Had you had any knowledge of electromagnetics, you would have realized that a wire leading into the culture would jeopardize the shielding. In contrast, you cannot assume anything about the endogenous field being led into the culture by the wire.

The next day we checked the cell cultures in the three containers for viability using a standard test known as trypan blue exclusion. In this test any cells whose "skin" (plasma membrane) has been damaged turn bright blue, but intact cells stay white. So one can count both types to see how viable is the culture of interest.

We found that the cells exposed to the donor's cutaneous (endogenous) electric fields stayed significantly more viable than the controls and the sham-exposed: exposed cells were usually more than 70% viable, whereas unexposed cells treated in exactly the same conditions were never more than 50% viable the next day.

What do you mean by "usually" and "never more than"? You have so far described ONE experiment with ONE sample of each type.

Over the next month we repeated this test six times, always with the same result, and eventually had counted (blind) some 10,000 cells. ("Blind" means that the person counting the cells under the microscope does not know from which container they have come).

So six group of three. Not exactly a large number.

Then we substituted an ELF field (50Hz,. square wave, 32mV) and found that this damaged the cells more than normal.

"Field", at 32mV??? ehr, how exactly did you apply that?

The same when an RF/MW field from a mobile phone on standby (ETACS, 900MHz.)was used.

Well, I'd be ready to believe that.

Finally we wondered if any endogenous human field would be protective, but found that only the donor's field has a protective effect. This last study was scrutineered by scientists from Oxford University and the Karolinska Institute, who came to our laboratory and stayed several days while the study was repeated.

Protocol of these experiments? Number of test subjects, number of controls?

Why were they so interested? It is because this is the first time any experiment has shown the existence of an important protective biological mechanism at levels of electric field strength so weak that it is far below thermal levels. It is clear that this hitherto unsuspected communications mechanism between immune system cells and the electric field present in all of us plays a vital role in self-recognition. Because we used a gold wire to feed in the signal, it is also evident that the communication does not involve any chemical reaction or magnetic fields, but that the signals are solely electric or possibly photonic in nature.

I simply cannot see how you can make that conclusion. How can you rule out magnetics because of the gold wire, btw? How did you ensure that the samples were at the same temperature and humidity? How did you quard against contamination?

We have been invited to repeat the experiment (this will be the fourteenth time!) at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden under the surveillance of their neuroscience department.

Because electric fields are additive our study shows for the first time unequivocally how other weak fields such as from powerlines or cellphones are disturbing this communications mechanism.

How do you make this conclusion? And "unequvically"?

Physicists can no longer argue that the artificial fields cannot have any biological effect.

Do they do that? To my knowledge, the ongoing debate is about whether the fields present in a normal environment has any health effects. That is not the same as discussing categorically whether they CAN have ANY effect.

It really is a big insight into how the weak fields of modern technology sometimes disturb our health, and has many practical implications for modern life. These influences may not always be adverse, by the way.

As I say, I fail to see the big insight
Roger, I assume that there exists a complete protocol. I think that if we are to discuss this experiment more, we must have a chance to read the complete protocol and report. I'm tired of trying to form an opinion based on an abstract, then have you whip up new details as we discuss it.

You are welcome to e-mail it to me, here: rogercoghill@hans-egebo.dk .

My final comment for now on this is that I hope it will be repeated, by an independent party.

Hans
 
"Wow, roger, why don't you just make your lack of logical skills as transparent as possible? Reductio ad absurdum
"Reductio ad absurdum is a mode of argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable. It is a style of reasoning that has been employed throughout the history of mathematics and philosophy from classical antiquity onwards"

Wow, roger".

In other words it is a debating trick without solid substance.

Skeptometer reading 97.
 
cogreslab said:
*snip*
Yes, I said in clinical practice:

The cancer mortality figures for Detroit 1920 to 1929 show a 23 percent fall, in a decade where every other major US city was recording increases of up to 32 percent in annual cancer mortality. Koch's quinone-based reagents were the principal cancer treatment modality in Detroit at that time.
And of course NONE of the thousands of rearchers worldwide spending billions of dollars on cancer research have noticed this? Well, it COULD happen, but excuse me for being less than enthusiastic.

Hans
 
Another external link to relevant information. This is from an email posted by Roger.

From: http://www.wave-guide.org/archives/emf-l/Jul1997/Something-in-the-air-(fwd).html

Whilst writing, a little about me and the laboratory. I have a Masters from
Emmanuel College, Cambridge where I was an Open Scholar in Biology, and
another MA in Environmental Management from the University of Wales. I am a
Chartered Biologist and a Member of the Bioielectromagnetics Society, the
European Bioelectromagnetics Association and the UK Institute of Biology.



Roger, clever wording above. Typically evasive, to make it appear that you have a Masters degree in Biology, no?

This is getting interesting. Why won't you give me a straight, simple, unambiguous answer as to what your actual scientific qualifications are?

Do you, or do you not, have an independent qualification in biology or biological sciences or whatever (please specify) from Cambridge? What is the PRECISE title of that qualification? It's a real simple question. Strange that it's so difficult to get an equally simple answer....

Oh, and why on your paper that I quoted, which is an article written by YOU, does it say DRS
Tamara Galonja-Coghill and Roger Coghill? I mean why is DRS in PLURAL? I don't know about your wife (and don't care), but what doctorate do YOU hold?
 

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