Bioelectromagnetics

Lucianarchy said:
Very noble. However, in practice, the overthrow of Establishments and States are done by educating those affected and organising them to take action.
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And as you might know knowledge is a prerequisite for virtue in the ancient Greek and not in the Christian meaning.

Cogreslab is doing an excellent job in preparing the conditions for this to happen. You must realise that his 'challenge', just like the JREF's, is nothing more than a publicity stunt in order to raise awareness? I really don't understand why anyone here is making an issue over it.
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Maybe I haven't read JREF's challenge right but it doesn't ask people to put their lives in danger in order to prove that paranormal phaenomena exist. In fact Randi refuses to take the challenge when the life of somebody is in danger.
 
In fact, why don't the JREF use their 'educational' status to promote the dangers our Governments are subjecting us to when theymisinfoming us about the dangers of EM? As sceptics we should, by our very nature, be sceptical of any establishment, scientific or otherwise.
 
I suppose one might argue that when Antigone threw a handful of soil on her dead relative's unburied body the Greek chorus were outraged by this symbolic social transgression. I have a great pile of dirt to throw down if I have enough time!
 
Cleopatra said:


Maybe I haven't read JREF's challenge right but it doesn't ask people to put their lives in danger in order to prove that paranormal phaenomena exist. In fact Randi refuses to take the challenge when the life of somebody is in danger.
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Do you really, honestly, expect the 'cogreslab challenge' would actually go ahead if some nut really did come forward who would be prepared to expose an infant to serious harm? :rolleyes:

OTOH, isn't it right that Randi tested a little girl, who, after she passed his prepared controls, went on to have most of her face plastered with duct tape, broke down in tears, only to be then humiliated again by having the whole debacle publicised internationaly in 'Time' magazine?
(don't worry, I'm not going to 'go off on one' about this. ;) )
 
Lucianarchy said:
Do you really, honestly, expect the 'cogreslab challenge' would actually go ahead if some nut really did come forward who would be prepared to expose an infant to serious harm? :rolleyes:
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Be careful because your eyes might roll out Luci.

Either I will believe Mr. Coghill or not. I can't do both. I am sorry. So far I have taken his words on good faith why should I not believe him?

Also, he is a scientist and not an entertainer to resort to such tricks of publicity.

OTOH, isn't it right that Randi tested a little girl, who, after she passed his prepared controls, went on to have most of her face plastered with duct tape, broke down in tears, only to be then humiliated again by having the whole debacle publicised internationaly in 'Time' magazine?
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I don't know to which incident you refer but once I read that kids and tears were involved my left eyebrow was automatically lifted....
 
Lucianarchy said:
In fact, why don't the JREF use their 'educational' status to promote the dangers our Governments are subjecting us to when theymisinfoming us about the dangers of EM? As sceptics we should, by our very nature, be sceptical of any establishment, scientific or otherwise.
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I thought that's what it's doing here. Cogreslab has put forward a point of view based on his extensive research and of others who have carried out similar research. Others have put forward the alternative point of view based on their research, exeperience and, dare I say it, bias.

What this has demonstrated is that there is no unanimity over whether there is an effect (however tainted each side thinks the other's research is) or if it is proved that an effect exists, how serious are the implications.

Skeptics would tend to gather the information and then base a decision (or opinion if there was some doubt) upon the information presented and of their assessment of the person or group presenting that information. Certainly Cogreslab would (I hope) have a high opinion of his research (after all he carroed it out) and may consider that done by "vested interests" (such as power companies and governments) as suspect. Conversely, someone else may consider that Cogreslab's research is compromised by the fact that he has a strong belief in the dangers of EM and his company turns a profit from selling devices to counter the effects of EM radiation.

To use the JREF to uncritically publicise potential (though not widely accepted) dengers would appear to run counter to the skeptical position.
 
Cleopatra said:


I don't know to which incident you refer but once I read that kids and tears were involved my left eyebrow was automatically lifted....
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Nice Roger Moore impression.

The incident is referred to by Randi here:
http://www.randi.org/jr/022202.html

in particular, the sixth picture down. I am reminded of something about 'breaking butterflys on the wheel' ...
 
I just read that article several times, I see no mention of tears or crying children.

Butterflies broken on the wheel? I think that description is perhaps more apt with the situation...not the testing. And that situation was created by the adults around the child, who should have known better.
 
CHILDHOOD LEUKAEMIA
AHLBOM A, DAY N, FEYCHTING M , ROMAN E, SKINNER J, DOCKERTY J, MCBRIDE M, MICHAELIS J, OLSEN JH, TYNES T and VERKASALO PK, 2000. A pooled analysis of magnetic fields and childhood leukaemia,

British Journal of Cancer 83(5), 692-698.

GREENLAND S, SHEPPARD AR, KAUNE WT, POOLE C and KELSH M A, 2000.

A pooled analysis of magnet fields, wire codes and childhood Leukaemia. Epidemiology, 11, 624-634.

Microwave News, Vol.XX, No. 5, Sept/Oct. 2000, ISSN 0275-6595, PO Box 1799, Grand Central Station, New York, NY 10163.

An implied relative risk of 2.0 above 0.4uT and 1.7 above 0.3 uT.

FEWS AP,HENSHAW DL, KEITCH P A, CLOSE JJ and WILDING RJ, 1999 B.

Increased exposure to pollutant aerosols under high voltage power lines.

International Journal of Radiation Biology, 75(12), 1505-1521

Predicted excess cases annually in the UK near high voltage power lines 2-8 cases

SKIN CANCER
FEWS A P, HENSHAW D L, KEITH P A, CLOSE J J, and WILDING R J, 1999B. Increased exposure to pollutant aerosols under high voltage power lines.

International Journal of Radiation Biology, 75(12), 1505-1521

Assessment of Skin Doses. Documents of the NRPB, Volume 8, No. 3, 1997.

Chilton, Didcot, Oxon, OX11 ORQ

Risk assessment based on increased skin exposure to radon decay products and other via 50 Hz oscillation of aerosols.

Predicted excess cases annually in the UK near high voltage power lines 14 cases

LUNG CANCER
MCDOWALL M E, 1986. Mortality of persons resident in the vicinity of electricity transmission facilities. British Journal of Cancer, 53: 271-279

KATSOUYANNI K and PERSHAGEN G, 1997 Ambient Air Pollution Exposure and Cancer. Cancer Causes and Control, 8 284-291

Risk assessment based on increased exposure to air pollution via corona ion effects

Predicted excess cases annually in the UK near high voltage power lines 250-400 cases.

OTHER ILLNESSES ASSOCIATED WITH AIR POLLUTION
SEATON A, MACNEE W, DONALDSON K and GODDEN D, 1995. Particulate air pollution and acute health effects. The Lancet, 345,176-78.

Risk assessment based on increased exposure to air pollution via corona ion effects.

Predicted excess cases annually in the UK near high voltage power lines ~ a few thousand cases

SUICIDE AND DEPRESSION
REICHMANIS M, PERRY F S, MARINO A A and BECKER R O, 1979. Relation between Suicide and the Electromagnetic Field of Overhead Power Lines. Physiology Chemistry & Physics, 11, 395-403.

PERRY F S, REICHMANIS M, MARINO A A and BECKER R O, 1981. Environmental Power-Frequency Magnetic Fields and Suicide. Health Physics, 41, 267-277.

PERRY S, PEARL L and BINNS R, 1989. Power Frequency Magnetic Field: Depressive Illness and Myocardial Infarction. Public health, 103 177-180

POOLE C KAVET R, FUNCH D P, DONELAN K, CHARRY J M and DREYER N A, 1993 Depressive Symptoms and Headaches in Relation to Proximity of Residence to an Alternating-Current Transmission Line Right-of -way. American Journal of Epidemiology, 137, 318-330

SAVITZ D A, BOYLE C A, and HOLMGREEN P, 1994. Prevalence of Depression Among Electrical Workers. American Journal of Industrial Medicine, 25, 165-177.

VERKASALO P K, KAPRIO J, VARJONEN J. ROMANOV K, HEIKKILA K and KOSKENVUO M., 1997. Magnetic Fields of Transmission Lines and Depression. American Journal of Epidemiology, 146 1037-1045

BEALE I L, PEARCE N E, CONROY D M, HENNING M A and MURRELL K A, 1997.Psychological Effects of Chronic Exposure to 50 Hz Magnetic Fields in Humans Living Near Extra-High-Voltage Transmission Lines. Bioelectromagnetics, 18, 584-594.

VAN WIJNGAARDEN E V, SAVITZ D A, KLECKNER R C, CAI J and LOOMIS D, 2000. Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields and Suicide Among Electric Utility Workers: A Nested Case-Control study. WJM, 173, 94-100.

Considered biologically plausible via magnetic field exposure. Apparent low threshold ~ 0.1 uT.

Predicted excess cases annually in the UK near high voltage power lines

Suicide 60 cases

Depression Up to 9,000 cases of mild depression.

TOMOXIFEN, MELATONIN & EMFS
DON MAISCH Australian Electromagnetic Forum Volume 1. No 4 Spring 1997

LIBURDY R.P. et al (1993) ELF Magnetic Fields, Breast Cancer and melatonin

HARLAND J.D., LEE M.Y. LEVINE R.P. (1997) Differential inhibition of Tamoxifen’s Oncostatic Functions in a Breast Cancer line by a 1.2 microtesla Field .COOGAN P.F. et al (1996) Occupational Exposure to 60-Hz Magnetic Field Risk of Breast Cancer in Women. Epidemiology; 7:p.459-464. LUBEN R.A., SARAIYA S and MORGAN A.P. (1996) Replication of 1.2 microtesla EMF Effects on Melatonin Responses of MCF-7 Breast Cancer Cells in vitro. STEVENS R.G., DAVIS S, THOMAS D B, ANDERSON L E, WILSON B W, (1992) Electric Power, Pineal Function and the Risk of Breast Cancer: A Hypothesis. FASEB J. 6: p. 853-860

There is repeated evidence that fields above one microtesla stop the anti-cancer action of the widely used breast cancer treatment drug Tamoxifen.

MAXIMUM EMF EXPOSURE EMERGES AS STRONG MISCARRIAGE RISK
CALIFORNIA HEALTH DEPARTMENT REPORT ON ELECTRIC AND MAGNET FIELDS FROM POWER LINES, APRIL 2001

This report highlights the added risk of miscarriage, childhood Leukaemia, brain cancer and a greater incidence of suicide as some of the health risks associated with exposure to electric and magnetic fields such as from power lines. The new information concerning miscarriage is particularly disturbing. Women exposed to magnetic fields of 16 mG (1.6 uT) or more while pregnant are up to six times more likely to have a miscarriage. See the following websites and find Environmental News Service: Power lines, Wiring pose health risks Press Release enclosed.

http://www.electric-fields.bris.ac.uk/ (Access Latest Updates: California News)

http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jul2001/2001L-07-16-02.html (Press Release)

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ehib/emf/RiskEvaluation/riskeval.html (California EMF Health report)

From http://www.revolt.co.uk/
 
The Don said:

[...] Cogreslab's research is compromised by the fact that he has a strong belief in the dangers of EM and his company turns a profit from selling devices to counter the effects of EM radiation.
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Um, doesn't Randi make a living out of 'believing' in debunking?
 
That's not nice of you, Lucy. Here Mr. Coghill has been trying to tell us that critical research is being suppressed, and then you come in and debunk him. Evidently, there is LOTS of research out there.

Unfortunately, you do not post links so we can see the conclusions.

Hans
 
Lucianarchy said:


Do you really, honestly, expect the 'cogreslab challenge' would actually go ahead if some nut really did come forward who would be prepared to expose an infant to serious harm? :rolleyes:
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Lucianarchy now offers us the third option:

o The challenge is utterly disingenuous


How this helps the challenger is anybody's guess. But it gets worse. If the challenger is knowingly disingenuous in the manner Luci suggests, then where are the admonitions to contact the challenger before subjecting an infant to the test conditions?
 
MRC_Hans said:

Unfortunately, you do not post links so we can see the conclusions.

Hans
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There are plenty of links, but, you know, sometimes you just have to get off that arse and go to one of those library thingys out there in the real world. If you are in a wheelchair, I apologise.
 
Chicken and the egg: it might be helpful to all to know that my lab's beliefs that weak EMFs can constitute a health hazard result from a close study of the literature and our own direct research investigations, not the other way around. I don't see it as inconsistent or immoral that having reached that conclusion we should not also try to find means of mitigating these effects. I suppose if I had unlimited funds I would then give the resulting solutions away free of charge, but our resources are too limited for that. Most of our revenues go into bioelectromagnetrics research and development. Last November, for example, our presentations at the biennial European Bioelectromagnetrics Association Symposium in Budapest exceeded contributions from all the rest of the UK put together, and we received no funding for that, except a small donantion towards travelling costs from a charity. So I do all I can to make the public aware of this problem by writing books, talking to scientific meetings, and selling devices which help: none of these make any great profit by the way.

By contrast the NGC spends less on bioelectromagnetics research into health effects from electricity than they do on changing their notepaper, Their EMF Biological Trust is a joke - a sop to Cerberus, being worth only about £250,000 over perhaps four/five years, compared with the £2000 million they have in cash resources. As for the NRPB, only around 12 percent of their budget goes into non-ionising research.
 
Well, Lucy, at least you have tried to look at some of this literature. The citations re depressive illness are reasonably complete. Congratulations!

I see you picked up some of Robert Liburdy's studies. There's another scandal: after he reported in 1992 an electric field metric effect on lymphocytes this eminent and long respected researcher at UCLA's Lawrence Berkely lab was denounced as a fraud and lost his job there. He now works in a local patent office, even though the denouncement was subsequently disproved as being of no substance. You see how the establishment is so desperate to cover up the electric field's importance that they stooped to ostracise one of our best and most diligent researchers, and a past President of BEMS? I will keep on exampling this kind of chicanery in this forum, because I know that you guys out there are all giving me a rough but fair trial, (as Cleopatra noted). Eventually I think you will see what an enormous cover up exists.
 
cogreslab said:
Well, Lucy, at least you have tried to look at some of this literature. The citations re depressive illness are reasonably complete. Congratulations!

I see you picked up some of Robert Liburdy's studies. There's another scandal: after he reported in 1992 an electric field metric effect on lymphocytes this eminent and long respected researcher at UCLA's Lawrence Berkely lab was denounced as a fraud and lost his job there. He now works in a local patent office, even though the denouncement was subsequently disproved as being of no substance. You see how the establishment is so desperate to cover up the electric field's importance that they stooped to ostracise one of our best and most diligent researchers, and a past President of BEMS? I will keep on exampling this kind of chicanery in this forum, because I know that you guys out there are all giving me a rough but fair trial, (as Cleopatra noted). Eventually I think you will see what an enormous cover up exists.
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It seems that you may well be correct, and it is heartening that people do seem to be at least taking it on board, albeit, slowly.

"Late Tuesday night, the State Senate was still debating a bill that would require the Connecticut Siting Council to take a significant look at Electromagnetic Field effect before approving power line expansion applications. " http://www.middletownpress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11442223&BRD=1645&PAG=461&dept_id=10856&rfi=6
 
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