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Bin Laden Dead?

I heard he has become a freeman on the land and is living on the dole in Birmingham in a council house
 
BeAChooser said:
But who is telling you those audio tapes are authentic? :)

And why put out only audio tapes if you are trying to send a message to your followers around the world. Prior to the attack on Afghanistan, bin Laden's visage was constantly seen on tape after tape. He was not shy at all. Why has he not done that for many years now? He could do that without providing any clues as to his location so its not a matter of his security. It's not a matter of equipment. I could make a tape with my phone. And his followers would go nuts seeing him. It would eliminate all suspicion that he is dead. It would be far more powerful than a mere audio tape. It would be galvanzing to his movement and a finger in the eye to those who are seeking him. Yet, all we hear are words on tape … words and tape that could be easily faked.

No, I think a reasonable person would conclude he's dead and has been for some time.
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So you think the new tapes are a part of a fabricated conspiracy?

Fabricated by Al Qaeda or the US?
 
Lee Robinson said:
we are the ones that have enough contextual knowleged to know what $20 million is and can do.
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I seriously doubt that, to be honest. People have a good idea of what money can be used for, and how much is enough, and you have to make it worthwhile for people to give up their entire lives and identity and move away.

I think the bigger problem is probably convincing anyone who's a candidate for the money that they actually will get the money, vs. being cheated out of it by the Evil Americans.
 
BeAChooser said:
And his followers would go nuts seeing him. It would eliminate all suspicion that he is dead. It would be far more powerful than a mere audio tape. It would be galvanzing to his movement and a finger in the eye to those who are seeking him. Yet, all we hear are words on tape … words and tape that could be easily faked.

No, I think a reasonable person would conclude he's dead and has been for some time.
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BAC, this is a logical error you frequently commit.

1. If I were in such a situation, I would act this way.
2. Therefore, anyone in such a situation would act this way.
3. Since no one is acting this way, the situation must not be true.

What evidence do you have that militant Islamic terrorists are motivated by a single leader? What evidence do you have that these types of people would accept a video tape as better proof than an audio tape? What evidence do you have that these people actually require proof of any sort at any level? What evidence do you have that a single personality can "galvanize" a fairly widespread and decentralized group of people?

Just because it's how you would react, doesn't mean that it is the only logical way to react. And it doesn't mean that you can draw any conclusions at all about anything. Leon Panetta understands this. You seem not to.


Panetta: Well, Toy Story 3 made me cry like a baby, and there are no reports that Bin Laden cried during Toy Story. Thus, he is obviously traveling in deep space somewhere near Omicron Ceti III and the signal has yet to reach him there.
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Loss Leader said:
BAC, this is a logical error you frequently commit.

1. If I were in such a situation, I would act this way.
2. Therefore, anyone in such a situation would act this way.
3. Since no one is acting this way, the situation must not be true.

What evidence do you have that militant Islamic terrorists are motivated by a single leader? What evidence do you have that these types of people would accept a video tape as better proof than an audio tape? What evidence do you have that these people actually require proof of any sort at any level? What evidence do you have that a single personality can "galvanize" a fairly widespread and decentralized group of people?

Just because it's how you would react, doesn't mean that it is the only logical way to react. And it doesn't mean that you can draw any conclusions at all about anything. Leon Panetta understands this. You seem not to.
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I think a video tape is better evidence than an audio tape. It's much harder to fake.

I don't know that these people require proof, but the possibility of his death must come up. Assurance either way must mean something.

I think that if Bin Laden doesn't inspire and galvanize every potential jihadist in the world, he still wants to inspire and galvanize all the ones he can.
 
The video from 7 Sept. 2007 includes full-motion footage of Osama and makes reference to recent events.

e: Finding the video and further details about it as left as an exercise for the reader. If I found it so can anyone else with internet access.
 
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Gazpacho said:
The video from 7 Sept. 2007 includes full-motion footage of Osama and makes reference to recent events.
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LOL!

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/9/9/61032/95401

Sep 9th, 2007

Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 36 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
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And this is the first video purported to show bin Laden since October 2004, when, by the way, he was still wearing the same clothing, seen in the same studio and sitting at the same desk as in the current one. Is that likely? Or is it likely this is tape from that 2004 session? And in the 2004 video it was widely noted that his beard appeared to be dyed or even pasted on, and his face structure appeared different. Was that tape even authentic? Many have their doubts given that he doesn't even look a whole like bin Laden did in 2001, when the last real video of him was probably released. This one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1729882.stm
 
So the 2004 video isn't really bin Laden, yet they still decided to freeze the video and insert a voice-over relating to recent events to give it more 'authenticity'? Not saying that it is him in that video or if it is "real", but that theory seems kind of similar to the claims that there were holographic images of planes crashing into the WTC.
 
All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen
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Yes, I knew that. So what? Do you understand that Osama makes recordings to serve his needs, and not yours?

And in the 2004 video it was widely noted that his beard appeared to be dyed or even pasted on
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So what if it was? Can you think of any reason why a living, breathing Osama might do such a thing? Any reason at all?
 
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Skeptic Guy said:
So the 2004 video isn't really bin Laden, yet they still decided to freeze the video and insert a voice-over relating to recent events to give it more 'authenticity'? Not saying that it is him in that video or if it is "real", but that theory seems kind of similar to the claims that there were holographic images of planes crashing into the WTC.
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??? I think it's quite logical to suspect the authenticity of the video when it freezes in the only portions of the video where current events are discussed. It's also logical to suspect the video when the person, clothing, background and desk are IDENTICAL to that seen in a 2004 video. And it is also logical to suspect the authenticity when the image of the person doesn't look all that similar to an image we actually do know to have been bin Laden. I think your trying to link these quite reasonable observations to 9/11 Truther nonsense is rather pathetic, SG.
 
Gazpacho said:
Yes, I knew that. So what?
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:rolleyes: See the sort of illogic one has to deal with here, folks?

I'm curious, Gazpacho. What's YOUR point in trying to defend this rather obvious fake as authentic? What's YOUR agenda? Because it sure isn't healthy skepticism.
 
BeAChooser said:
??? I think it's quite logical to suspect the authenticity of the video when it freezes in the only portions of the video where current events are discussed.
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The video doesn't "freeze in those portions." Almost the entire video is still-frame. But a few minutes are not.

BeAChooser said:
It's also logical to suspect the video when the person, clothing, background and desk are IDENTICAL to that seen in a 2004 video.
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Why is that a reason for suspicion? Spell it out.

BeAChooser said:
And it is also logical to suspect the authenticity when the image of the person doesn't look all that similar to an image we actually do know to have been bin Laden.
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It's logical unless Osama might have very good reasons for changing his appearance. Can you think if any?

BeAChooser said:
I'm curious, Gazpacho. What's YOUR point in trying to defend this rather obvious fake as authentic? What's YOUR agenda?
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My point is that it's not an obvious fake. My agenda is to learn what I can about the jihad movement rather than ignoring it or abstracting it away. Hope that helps.
 
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