Bill Gates and Vaccines

Sledge said:
So you're appealling to Wikipedia's authority to tell people what appeal to authority means? The irony is delicious, thank you for that.
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LOL..yes that is funny, even though its nonsense.
 
Mashuna said:
So, if we are to accept the wikipedia definition as correct, all you need to do is show where anyone said that their authority was necessarily infallible.
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Well thanks for supporting my argument and have a nice day.
 
Wygram said:
ARE MOST DISEASES CAUSED BY THE MEDICAL SYSTEM?
By Walter Last
<snipped>
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Walter Last combines the training and work experience of Research Chemist Biochemist and Toxicologist with that of Practicing Nutritionist and Natural Therapist.
(...)
Walter Last is the author of "Heal Yourself", "Healing Foods" and "The Natural Way To Heal - 65 Ways to Create Superior Health", and is the main contributor to the "Self Help Cancer Cure" book. He is a regular contributor to "Nexus" magazine and his latest books are the "Heal Yourself" Series. His website is at http://www.health-science-spirit.com/
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http://www.the-heal-yourself-series.com/Author.html

:rolleyes:
 
Wygram said:
I've provided you with evidence as to how diseases had decreased substantially and were on a huge decline when penicillin etc was discovered. Obviously you just ignored my 'mumbo jumbo' article.

If you have an article on antivaxxer nutjobs killing people by encouraging them to not get vaccines your welcome to share. If you also have one on people dying because they didn't get a vaccine you can share that as well.
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What are anti-vaxers going to do when polio is eradicated? Will you be sad? Will you declare that it was eradicated thanks to healthy eating and exercise?
 
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Wygram said:
ARE MOST DISEASES CAUSED BY THE MEDICAL SYSTEM?
By Walter Last

I do not want to pretend that this is an impartial investigation. Instead I am now fully convinced that most diseases are indeed caused by the medical system, and in the following I want to state my reasons for this conclusion.
Increasingly over the years my health beliefs have been turned around. I started out by working as a biochemist and toxicologist in university medical departments fully believing that all these chronic and incurable diseases are indeed incurable and generally of unknown origin, but that pharmaceutical drugs made life easier for patients and often were even curative. My re-education started after immigrating to New Zealand and learning about natural healing and living; this made me realize that disease is mainly caused by unnatural living conditions and can be overcome by natural methods of living and healing.

...

Edited by LashL: 
Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not cut and paste lengthy tracts of material available elsewhere. Instead, just post a short snippet and a link to the other source.
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http://www.whale.to/a/last1.html

...

Scopie's Law states:
“ In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you laughed out of the room. ”
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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scopie's_Law
 
It's so cute when anti-vaxers try to discuss epidemiology...

The anti-vaccine movement is nothing if not plastic. It "evolves" very rapidly in response to selective pressures applied to it in the form of science refuting its key beliefs.
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However, there is one trait of the anti-vaccine movement that, however its camouflaging plumage may evolve, never, ever changes. It is as immutable as creationists say that God is. That is that, whatever other claims, the anti-vaccine movement makes, at its core it is always about the vaccines. Always. No matter how much science fails to find a link between vaccines and autism or vaccines and whatever other horreur du jour the anti-vaccine movement tries to pin on vaccines, no matter how much it tries to deny and obfuscate by saying that it is not "anti-vaccine" but "pro-safe vaccine," at its core the anti-vaccine movement is about fear and loathing of vaccines. Always. When inconvenient science doesn't support their views, anti-vaccine activists either ignore it, distort it, or launch ad hominems against the people doing it or supporting it.
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Be that as it may, as cynical as the leaders of the anti-vaccine movement are, it's so cute when AoA'ers try to do epidemiology and science. At least, it would be if their misinformation, pseudoscience, and utter nonsense were not such a profound threat to public health.
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http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/08/its_so_cute_when_anti-vaxers_try_to.php
 
!Kaggen said:
LOL..yes that is funny, even though its nonsense.
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Don't be so hard on yourself. It wasn't nonsense, you just didn't think through your writing to its logical conclusion, resulting in...

... ok, you wrote nonsense. But you TRIED, that's the important thing. Now learn from the experience.
 
dtugg said:
Why can't you just answer the question. Do vaccines save lives?
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I was going to respond, my first evidence that !kaggan is anti-vax is when, after being accused of being anti-vax, he doesn't deny it.

I mean, what "evidence" could I provide if not things he has said? So if he actually denied being anti-vax, then that would be just as good as anything I could provide. Yet, he chooses to play silly games...
 
!Kaggen said:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/167619.php


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/childhood_deaths_diarrhoea_20091014/en/index.html


I guess the less glamorous methods don't appeal to Mr Gates sensibilities as they decentralize the responsibility, something all his money comes from avoiding.

Oh and why is this in the science section or are we finally admitting science is guided by money and opinion?
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Even in the US that has all those things listed, vaccines still save lives. Vaccines will save lives among the entire population vaccinated and even the unvaccinated regardless of who is in charge, soap use, etc. It's a sure bet, one that won't be changed by the individual's future behavior.

And as has been pointed out, Gates and his associated foundations try to help in those areas as well.
 
Emet said:
Yes, he lost his license, but not his degree. If he wasn't making his money through other means, I would imagine he might be able to obtain a license to practice medicine in some other country.

(At least I think so)
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I'm not sure that he has a PhD. Ordinary medical degrees are not doctorates in Britain. Ironically, he was a surgeon I believe, and probably entitled to the promotion to being called "Mr." again. I think he dropped that partly because he had moved out of surgery and partly because not everyone outside Britain understands the connotations of surgeons being called "Mr." (i.e. that it is a promotion).

Welcome back to "Mr. Wakefield" I believe.

Rolfe.
 
Sceptic Tank said:
Cognitive dissonance time. How can I like and admire the things like this that Bill Gates does and says, yet still hate him with a passion every time I get a Blue Screen Of Death? I can't stand the confusion in my mind!
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+1. Plus MS Word is the Spawn of Satan.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm not sure that he has a PhD. Ordinary medical degrees are not doctorates in Britain. Ironically, he was a surgeon I believe, and probably entitled to the promotion to being called "Mr." again. I think he dropped that partly because he had moved out of surgery and partly because not everyone outside Britain understands the connotations of surgeons being called "Mr." (i.e. that it is a promotion).

Welcome back to "Mr. Wakefield" I believe.

Rolfe.
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I understand what you're saying, Rolfe. I believe Wakefield has given many press interviews in the US, and they refer to Wakefield as "Doctor". It may have been CNN who actually asked him if he was still a Doctor, and he replied yes.

IIRC, an old style book for journalists states that only physicians are referred to as Doctors. But many, if not most US journalists will address or write about all sorts of "Doctors": veterinarians, optometrists, even chiropractors. They usually are referred to with the title, regardless of their country of origin.
 
Well, he's not "still a doctor" with the small D, in the sense of still being a licensed medical practitioner. However, saying he's still a doctor when he isn't is quite a small lie in the context of the porkies he's been telling.

I've seen newspaper articles here calling him "Mr. Wakefield" recently.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm not sure that he has a PhD. Ordinary medical degrees are not doctorates in Britain. Ironically, he was a surgeon I believe, and probably entitled to the promotion to being called "Mr." again. I think he dropped that partly because he had moved out of surgery and partly because not everyone outside Britain understands the connotations of surgeons being called "Mr." (i.e. that it is a promotion).

Welcome back to "Mr. Wakefield" I believe.

Rolfe.
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That is interesting. Lots (most?) surgeons in the US (many of whom have God complexes) would be very offended at being called Mr.
 
dtugg said:
That is interesting. Lots (most?) surgeons in the US (many of whom have God complexes) would be very offended at being called Mr.
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Well, Wakefield should count himself lucky he's not in prison, being called "sweetheart."
 
So basically everyone agrees that vaccines are great except for one guy who's arguing Bill G. should solve the worlds food problems before helping with vaccines and another guy who claims that all diseases are actually caused by the medical profession.

Wow.
 
NewtonTrino said:
So basically everyone agrees that vaccines are great except for one guy who's arguing Bill G. should solve the worlds food problems before helping with vaccines and another guy who claims that all diseases are actually caused by the medical profession.

Wow.
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So you're in the camp that want a vaccine for starvation, as you're too patronizing to admit ignorance to having a solution to a really big problem that is not going to solved in a laboratory.
 
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