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Bill Ayers admits he wrote "Dreams From My Father"

Indeed, but nevertheless, Baye's Theorem is not a methodology that "results in exactly 1 or 0 probability"

You're right, it doesn't. Which means the article writer was grotesquely misusing the theorem. American Thinker is apparently as good at math as they are at science.

Which reminds me, BAC...do you think their articles about evolution are as accurate and trustworthy as their articles about Obama? You never answered when I asked you that the first time.

And while we're at it, you also still haven't answered the question asked in this thread about Cashill: if he says that an obviously (and badly) photoshopped image was original, while the actual original image was photoshopped (despite being actually sharper and clearer and less blurred), do you think Cashill is lying, or do you think he's a really poor analyst?
 
Since the computations in this article are based on the dishonest moron Cashill's assessment of the "striking similarities" between the two books, they are most likely garbage. Since, as usual, we aren't granted a full list of those striking similarities, it's not possible to say more. The article does note the incredible coincidence that both books misquote the same Carl Sandburg line in the exact same way (not mentioning that MANY people misquote it in the exact same way, or that it's the most famous poem about Chicago ever written). And we know from Cashill's articles (yes, some of us HAVE read them) that Cashill finds it mind-bendingly amazing that both books use such ultra-rare terms as "ballast" and "bill of particulars."

More than that, I'm not convinced the theorem was even applied correctly. By the way Loftus talked about the elements, I suspect it wasn't. I can't know for sure until I see how it was applied.

BAC?
 
You're right, it doesn't. Which means the article writer was grotesquely misusing the theorem.

Wrong. The author appears to correctly understand Bayes' Theorem and how to apply it. Just because he chose to round the answers to something the audience might better understand doesn't mean he misused it. You might quibble with some of his inputs but the answer he got appears valid given those inputs. And, frankly, I don't think his inputs are all that unreasonable. :D
 
Just driving by to say, "Holy crap, did he really cite Orly Taitz?" :eek:

This is too funny. How could it be possible for this thread to become even more of a failure that it was at the first post.

I think BAC has been punked by Cashill
 
Wrong. The author appears to correctly understand Bayes' Theorem and how to apply it. Just because he chose to round the answers to something the audience might better understand doesn't mean he misused it. You might quibble with some of his inputs but the answer he got appears valid given those inputs. And, frankly, I don't think his inputs are all that unreasonable. :D

Confirmation bias. We don't know what his inputs were because he didn't provide the calculations. Or if he has, you haven't provided them to us. And of the inputs we do know, I highly question the assumption of "striking similarities", as do other reviewers, and thus the probability he looked up based on that.

Essentially, he referenced a mathematical formula, threw out some impressive numbers, waved his hands a whole lot, and said, "trust me. The numbers match what I presupposed them to be."

As has been pointed out and you have ignored, this is based on numbers from a guy who was so careless that he did not take the time to really analyze two different versions of a picture but just assumed the one with Obama's knee floating in midair was the untouched version because it too somehow fit his presupposed beliefs.
 
Just driving by to say, "Holy crap, did he really cite Orly Taitz?" :eek:

That, he did. And even Cashill, of all people, calls Taitz "irresponsible". However, that doesn't stop him using her ideas more or less at face value.

BAC, how many times does Cashill need to fail before you question his methods? He should not get amass just because you like his conclusions.
 
And, frankly, I don't think his inputs are all that unreasonable. :D

Of course you do. Like him, you're not interested in the actual truth, but merely in trying to confirm something you desperately want to be true.

Now, why are you avoiding my questions, BAC?

Do you think that the articles on American Thinker about evolution are as accurate and trustworthy as their articles about Obama?

Cashill wrote an article saying an obviously poorly-photoshopped image was the original, while claiming that the actual original is the one that's photoshopped (despite being sharper and clearer than the other image). Is he lying, or is he just a miserably poor researcher and analyst?
 
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Interesting.
In 2008 and 2009 some Republican commentators advanced claims that Obama's autobiography, Dreams from My Father was written or ghost-written by Ayers. In a series of articles in American Thinker and WorldNetDaily, author Jack Cashill claimed that his own analysis of the book showed Ayers' writing style, and backed this up citing analyses by American researchers using Millican's Signature software. In late October 2008, shortly before the US Presidential election, US Congressman Chris Cannon and his brother-in-law attempted to hire Millican to prove Ayers' authorship using computer analysis. Millican refused after they would not assure him in advance that his results would be published regardless of the outcome. After some analysis Millican later criticized the claim, saying variously that he had "found no evidence for Cashill's ghostwriting hypothesis", that it was "unlikely" and that he felt "totally confident that it is false".

Millican's analysis. Conclusion:
As pointed out earlier, it is not at all surprising that Cashill is able to find some passages in the Obama and Ayers books that have some superficially impressive similarities (he says that he "could identify twenty parallel passages just as compelling": this looks like pure bluster, until he has done so explicitly). But such superficial similarities totally fail to address the point made above about the contrast in the two writers' talk of memory. In 13 passages out of 15, Ayers talks of what memory is (or does) in the abstract. If he was also the author of Obama's book, then one would expect to find some reasonable proportion of similar passages within it, whereas one does not find any at all. The fact that one passage in Dreams which mentions memory is somewhat similar to a passage in Fugitive Days which does not mention memory is entirely irrelevant to answering this point. Cashill, apparently, ignores this simple logic, and so rashly bets his house against my mailbox on the matter. I hereby accept the bet. Let him put up, or shut up. If he is indeed prepared to bet his house on the outcome, then it may well be worth my investing more time on the issue to set out to prove at length that he is mistaken, rather than merely arguing (as I have done so far) that his case as presented is hopelessly unproven.

To sum up, I have found no evidence for Cashill's ghostwriting hypothesis, and rather strong (albeit limited) evidence against. Note, moreover, that the discussion above is all fought on his own chosen ground - analyses and literary patterns that he himself has cited as likely to tell in his favour. It is impossible to know without searching carefully what other evidence against his hypothesis might turn up if one were to look for it. But at least we must judge it as extremely unlikely, and indeed so far unsubstantiated. Moreover given its small initial probability (as a story that was always intrinsically unlikely - it would be very surprising if true), and the evidence already seen, I cannot imagine how the hypothesis could be rendered credible by further examination of the texts. Of course that doesn't mean it's impossible (for example if systematic comparative studies using Yavelow's system were to yield genuinely exceptional results), but I don't currently believe that anything short of documentary proof of Ayers's involvement will take the case further.
 
My favorite part was how he noted that two of the four "analyses" that Cashill quoted used Millican's own software, and that they screwed up using it...and then he goes on to use his own software correctly to show that it doesn't actually give results anything like they (and Cashill) say it gives.
 
This guy is REALLY BAD at using computer programs to remove Obama's presence from things. Granted that's a very narrow field to be terrible at but he's a god damn savant.
 
Millican's analysis. Conclusion:
... Note, moreover, that the discussion above is all fought on his own chosen ground - analyses and literary patterns that he himself has cited as likely to tell in his favour. It is impossible to know without searching carefully what other evidence against his hypothesis might turn up if one were to look for it....

This section is most important. Cashill's approach is classic Cherrypicking. He has a hypothesis and looks for patterns that fit the hypothesis, ignoring everything else. THIS is why this thread is in CT.

BeAChooser, please take care to avoid these mistakes in the future. That way you won't continue to present such gross mis-characterizations of the facts.
 
Hey, it's got numbers! It's exact science! Like football. Ryan Leaf has 3666 career passing yards, Randall McDaniel has zero. Yet people never drag McDaniel's name through the mud, Leaf takes all the heat because he's white.

So, what was cashill's success rate in double blind studies of his ability to identify an author from his writings?


If there are no double blind tests, why would anybody (other than BeAChooser, who will believe anything that purports to show Obama, Bill Clinton, or Hillary Clinton is evil) take his analysis crap seriously?
 
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If there are no double blind tests, why would anybody (other than BeAChooser, who will believe anything that purports to show Obama, Bill Clinton, or Hillary Clinton is evil) take his analysis crap seriously?
Because most people don't understand how math, science, and statistics work. Throw science-y language at them and, if it agrees with what they want to be true, they will gobble it right up.

Of course, the opposite is true too. If it disagrees with what they want to be true, it's just a theory or some such nonsense.
 
Huh.

Hey, BAC! Have an explanation for why Cashill claimed a real photo was photoshopped, and promoted an obviously-photoshopped photo as real?

Doesn't that kind of say something about either Cashill's honesty, or his analytical abilities?

Even more importantly; Does Cashill know who owns the black clad knee that is hovering between Obamas grandparents in the "original unedited" photo?

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201104070013?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d9dd4952cfb0d98,0
 
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