Biggest PC slow-downs (other than hardware)?

[Zep]

I have 2 GB of Ram in my laptop (Fujitsu Tablet PC) - but it seems to me the computer never gets anywhere close to using all that (as monitored via the task manager thingy). This is true no matter how much stuff I set running. And sometimes it seems Windows will be using the page file despite having plenty of RAM free. So I wonder if there's any point in having more than 1GB of RAM?

The windows paging annoys me the way it does that. Is there some way to make it actually use what it has before it decides to start paging things out?

Windows (based on NT) will expand processes to consume as much memory as is available...eventually. You keep running IE for hours on end, it will g-r-o-w. The simple/dumb/immediate solution is to close and open it again. The BEST solution is for it to shrink whenever necessary. Ask Bill to do it in the next release - I'm sure he'll agree that even though he has shares in Intel you don't need to buy the next greatest CPU just because IE is a memory hog.

Note also that Windows processes are supposed to "co-operate" with each other in sharing resources. So if one refuses to play nice or hogs the limelight, all the rest will suffer. And if this bad apple is a background (detached) process, it is often difficult for the average Windows user to discover and deal with. (Being an alien from another (better) OS world where processes are efficiently marshalled by a plenipotent OS, this always seemed a foolishly selfish design.)

So let's start a checklist of known things to do to make Windows go better/faster. I'll start with the obvious:

1) DEFRAG your disk(s) regularly!
2) Real memory is to virtual memory as Coke is to Pepsi - the real thing is better, so get more.
3) Do not waste cycles running anything you do not need right now.
4) Don't install stuff "just in case I might want it" or because "that sounds good". Install only what you need.
5) Don't use Outlook Express for ANYTHING.

 

[DickK]

Windows (based on NT) will expand processes to consume as much memory as is available...eventually. You keep running IE for hours on end, it will g-r-o-w. The simple/dumb/immediate solution is to close and open it again. The BEST solution is for it to shrink whenever necessary. Ask Bill to do it in the next release - I'm sure he'll agree that even though he has shares in Intel you don't need to buy the next greatest CPU just because IE is a memory hog.

Note also that Windows processes are supposed to "co-operate" with each other in sharing resources. So if one refuses to play nice or hogs the limelight, all the rest will suffer. And if this bad apple is a background (detached) process, it is often difficult for the average Windows user to discover and deal with. (Being an alien from another (better) OS world where processes are efficiently marshalled by a plenipotent OS, this always seemed a foolishly selfish design.)

So let's start a checklist of known things to do to make Windows go better/faster. I'll start with the obvious:

1) DEFRAG your disk(s) regularly!
2) Real memory is to virtual memory as Coke is to Pepsi - the real thing is better, so get more.
3) Do not waste cycles running anything you do not need right now.
4) Don't install stuff "just in case I might want it" or because "that sounds good". Install only what you need.
5) Don't use Outlook Express for ANYTHING.

Hmm, dunno about your cooperative take on Windows Zep. Windows has been preemptive for 32 bit images since 92, when NT first appeared. Prior to that it was, of course, cooperative multitasking. And while IE may expand to rule the known universe, this isn't a general rule. I can write networking daemons for 32-bit Windows that'll run for months without using any more memory than they start up with. The other side of that coin is that the same daemons compiled for Unix might leak memory due to bugs in the IP stack.

Just an observation.

 

[AK-Dave]

Also, reboot the computer on occasion. Many applications and processes have memory leaks which cause the memory allocated to that process to slowly creep up. Restarting will remedy this. One sign of memory leaks is your computer starts getting sluggish the longer it's left on, and it starts paging out to the hard drive more and more often.
-David

 

[Project86]

Everything that has been said has been good advice. One thing I will add that I didn't see mentioned: Re-installing your OS every once in a while. With heavy use, especially installing and removing drivers and applications, Windows tends to get bogged down. It shouldn't, but it does. You can keep a lid on things by using a registry cleaner/optimizer, but eventually you will still slow down.

And as long as you are reinstalling the OS, you might as well reformat your HD if it is feasable. Some people partition a small part of their HD to be used only by the OS and it's supporting components; that way they can reformat and re-install without losing most of their stuff.

 

[a_unique_person]

However, as the IBM engineer once said about their mainframes, there's no performance problem you can't fix by throwing more iron at it.

 

[bigred]

Everything that has been said has been good advice. One thing I will add that I didn't see mentioned: Re-installing your OS every once in a while. With heavy use, especially installing and removing drivers and applications, Windows tends to get bogged down. It shouldn't, but it does. You can keep a lid on things by using a registry cleaner/optimizer, but eventually you will still slow down.

I've heard this but am leery about such things as obviously they can be dangerous. Anyone have suggestions for a "good" (safe) one? ie assuming the operator of said program isn't a total fool?

And as long as you are reinstalling the OS, you might as well reformat your HD if it is feasable. Some people partition a small part of their HD to be used only by the OS and it's supporting components; that way they can reformat and re-install without losing most of their stuff.

Interesting idea. What would you consider a "safe" minimum space needed for a typical XP Home install?

 

[Project86]

I've heard this but am leery about such things as obviously they can be dangerous. Anyone have suggestions for a "good" (safe) one? ie assuming the operator of said program isn't a total fool?

I've always been pleased with RegCleaner. It is freeware, and it seems to work very well. I'd give you a link, but I can't post URL's yet, so just search for it and I'm sure you'll find dozens of plases to download it.

It's a very small program, and very easy to use. I just go up to "tools", then "registry cleaner", and then select "do them all" (it lists a few different cleaning options). It will do the rest for you. It also makes a backup of the original, in case anything happens. I have never had a single problem using this, and never even had to use the backup file. There are other good programs out there I'm sure, but this has served me well for a long tim.

Interesting idea. What would you consider a "safe" minimum space needed for a typical XP Home install?

I've done it with only 3 GB, some people use even less. I'm not sure what the smallest amount should be... that depends on what XP components you end up using. But if you used 5GB, I'm sure that would be plenty to cover your install and all your updates. With hard drive prices being so low per GB, that shouldn't cause any problems.

 

[Zep]

Hmm, dunno about your cooperative take on Windows Zep. Windows has been preemptive for 32 bit images since 92, when NT first appeared. Prior to that it was, of course, cooperative multitasking. And while IE may expand to rule the known universe, this isn't a general rule. I can write networking daemons for 32-bit Windows that'll run for months without using any more memory than they start up with. The other side of that coin is that the same daemons compiled for Unix might leak memory due to bugs in the IP stack.

Just an observation.

True, with NT-based Windows, apps are supposed to be capable of being pre-emptively managed. And indeed many apps will comply. Unfortunately not all do, and will lock, leak or consume resources such that they can hang systems. Sometimes these unco-operative apps are 32-bit, and not always the ones you would expect would be ill-behaved.

Windows has gotten a lot better - my observation is that whatever they did to the internals of Win2K onwards was a vast improvement. Rogue processes seem to be much better managed now.

Yep, I have used a Win2K Pro desktop at work that I had running literally non-stop for months with no issues at all. Although strangely, a cow-orker had to reboot his almost identical PC daily...no-one knew why the difference. But it can be done.

 

[DickK]

Zep,

Good points, and agreed. It always feels like I've been sucker-punched when I end up making a case for Windows. It's not a develpment platform I'd choose to work on, frankly. And you're right, XP Pro on my company laptop works fine, always. My colleague's, with the same standard image but probably a few too many Google/Yahoo toolbars, Firefox extensions and YouTube movies in his cache, won't start up, won't shut down, stalls, hangs, spontaneously reboots and generally might as well be running DOS for all the good XP has done him.

On the other hand, during a foray into Linux (SuSE), installed on an old and seemingly unreliable Pentium 600, I could not get it to go wrong. A beautiful setup.

None of which helps bigred and his quest for Windows slickness. Sorry bigred. Therefore I add: Get as much memory as you can into the machine. 32-bit Windows can't use more than about 3.4GB due to the way that devices are mapped into the space just below 4 GB (which is the max. addressable for 32 bits) so 2-3 GBs is good. The empirical message here is that the less stress on the page file and the disk sub-system the better. Having said that, XP (and I guess all NT lineage builds) will always use some page file (it has to do with the age of unused processes in memory, not the amount of memory in use) so don't expect to do without it, just minimise its use.

 

[rats]

Not sure whether anyone’s mentioned it, but a very simple thing is to make sure you don’t save stuff to that My Documents area. Keep all your files elsewhere.

I’m not a computer whiz, so please excuse if this is an obvious one!

 

[gnome]

Not sure whether anyone’s mentioned it, but a very simple thing is to make sure you don’t save stuff to that My Documents area. Keep all your files elsewhere.

I’m not a computer whiz, so please excuse if this is an obvious one!

That really matters?

 

[rats]

That really matters?

I’ve found it helps keep things running quickly. Though obviously it won’t if your disc is all fragmented etc.

I work heavily on my home and work Windows computers, running high CPU calculations, often with significant Office files in the foreground.

One day I’ll grow up and stick to Linux & IDL

 

[I less than three logic]

Or, a Godly hour when gamers are asleep

So around noon then?

 

[Nevermore]

Some other things you may want to consider:

- If you have more than one hard drive installed, place your page file on a different drive than the one Windows is installed on
- Rather than allowing Windows to dynamically manage the size of the page file set it to a consistant amount 2.5 times your system RAM
- Get a can of compressed air and blow out all those dust bunnies inside your case and on your fans
- Make sure your computer is adequately ventilated

 

[a_unique_person]

Zep,

Good points, and agreed. It always feels like I've been sucker-punched when I end up making a case for Windows. It's not a develpment platform I'd choose to work on, frankly. And you're right, XP Pro on my company laptop works fine, always. My colleague's, with the same standard image but probably a few too many Google/Yahoo toolbars, Firefox extensions and YouTube movies in his cache, won't start up, won't shut down, stalls, hangs, spontaneously reboots and generally might as well be running DOS for all the good XP has done him.

On the other hand, during a foray into Linux (SuSE), installed on an old and seemingly unreliable Pentium 600, I could not get it to go wrong. A beautiful setup.

None of which helps bigred and his quest for Windows slickness. Sorry bigred. Therefore I add: Get as much memory as you can into the machine. 32-bit Windows can't use more than about 3.4GB due to the way that devices are mapped into the space just below 4 GB (which is the max. addressable for 32 bits) so 2-3 GBs is good. The empirical message here is that the less stress on the page file and the disk sub-system the better. Having said that, XP (and I guess all NT lineage builds) will always use some page file (it has to do with the age of unused processes in memory, not the amount of memory in use) so don't expect to do without it, just minimise its use.

You mean he's been checking out all the sucker porn/smiley/cursor sites that load his machine down with malware, spyware and viruses. They are the most common reason I have seen for a machine to become functionally useless, and the hardest to cure, short of formatting the thing and starting fresh.