Bigfoot, What's the harm?

[The Shrike]

Why are there five threads though? It seems an awful lot for a relatively minor subject. Most other topics are combined into one thread. Genuine question

There's just one thread here at the JREF for each of the following topics, respectively?

psychics
ghosts
UFOs
homeopathy
anti-vaccs

 

[Drewbot]

As many have said, it's interesting, it's MORE POPULAR THAN EVER, and it's a chance to talk to the public about real vs bad science or pseudoscience. Kids love monsters. Finding Bigfoot gets a million viewers a week. People really believe this stuff.

The vast majority of people that watch FINDING BIGFOOT believe this stuff, as much as Wrestling fans believe that THE UNDERTAKER is really an Undead Spirit.

A few are hard core believers that have placed all -faith in the FB Crew.

 

[idoubtit]

I'm not sure I believe that, Drew.

http://www.thearda.com/quickstats/qs_43.asp (And that's from 2007, pre Finding Bigfoot). We also have a surge in people asking for exorcisms and for the houses to be investigated for paranormal activity. When things become mainstream, they are more likely to be seen as acceptable by the culture.

It's the "probablies" and "probably nots" that are what skeptics need to aim at. It's fun to believe this stuff and it gets passed on.

 

[Resume]

Additional observations regarding bigfootery: there is a deep connection between bigfoot belief and religious fundamentalism. In particular, it appears that some Mormons feel that proof of Bigfoot would somehow bolster their goofy scam religion.

Also, if Bigfoot is so unpopular, how do we explain it's massive popularity on television, in advertising, etc? I think "Finding Bigfoot" is in it's third season, for example.

To me, that's what makes it dangerous woo: Bigfoot is a massively popular phenomenon that promotes an anti-science agenda.

The bigfoot enthusiasm also encourages other woo beliefs like psi, conspiracy theory, alien connections, giant skeletons and other nonsense.

 

[Morchella]

I get it now. I don't get cable or have kids so I missed out on the Bigfoot resurgence. The popularity here is just following a new trend.... Sorry. I'll leave you bigfooters alone to do your good work. I thought Bigfoot was just a Northern California diversion. No surprise he has gone south now where there is a lot of big stupid.

 

[The Shrike]

I thought Bigfoot was just a Northern California diversion.

So you've been waiting to post your comments on it using the latest developments in bigfootery, circa 1972?

Good heavens, "bigfoot" isn't just a California or US thing, this woo is global. Europe, Russia, Southeast Asia, China, Australia, Latin America - all have their own bigfoot-type creatures.

 

[barehl]

I get it now. I don't get cable or have kids so I missed out on the Bigfoot resurgence. The popularity here is just following a new trend.... Sorry. I'll leave you bigfooters alone to do your good work. I thought Bigfoot was just a Northern California diversion. No surprise he has gone south now where there is a lot of big stupid.

Again, if there is a religious topic that you would like to discuss, I can do that. I see that you did start this thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270617

 

[Drewbot]

I'm not sure I believe that, Drew.

http://www.thearda.com/quickstats/qs_43.asp (And that's from 2007, pre Finding Bigfoot). We also have a surge in people asking for exorcisms and for the houses to be investigated for paranormal activity. When things become mainstream, they are more likely to be seen as acceptable by the culture.

It's the "probablies" and "probably nots" that are what skeptics need to aim at. It's fun to believe this stuff and it gets passed on.

My opinion:

A vast majority of the General Public does not think Bigfoot is out there.

Many of the Bigfooters know that there isn't a Bigfoot.

I would even say that many of your mainstream celebrity Bigfooters do not believe Bigfoot is real.


The people that would say undoubtedly that Bigfoot exists, are the 'knowers'. They have clearly 'seen' a Bigfoot and will not listen to any logic to the contrary. there are 10,000 sightings in databases, if we multiply that by 10, (for those that keep it secret) a 100,000 'knowers' out there in the country. That is far lower precentage of people than have a disorder like Narcolepsy, or are skipping their anti-depressants, or anti-hallucination drugs. Far far fewer.

 

[blutoski]

There are already five threads about Bigfoot on the front page of this section. I don't care enough to read a single one. Bigfoot is kindergarten skepticism. With all the pseudoscience really causing harm like quacks and SCAM, why is everyone obsessed with Bigfoot. I see no harm having naive Bigfoot hunters combing the woods. Where do they bother anyone outside this forum? At least they get outside some. So much fretting about Bigfoot only means that someone has way too much time on their hands.

I think a big reason Bigfoot is a perennial topic is the history of skepticism and its mission creep being relatively recent - skepticism used to be limited to fringe topics that had no opposition, like cryptozoology or UFOlogy, ghost investigations, pyramid power, psychics.

Everything really serious was considered already being addressed by some more qualified existing entity: healthfraud, business fraud, first amendment violations, &c.

I'm from the old school who consider expansion of scope to 'serious issues' to be undesireable. Sort of like when I was in a university bicycle maintenance club and the AGM had a proposal to add "Palestinian Independence" to our list of goals for the year, stapled onto getting a better set of spanners.

Basically that's my observation of skepticism over the last 30+ years of my involvement. Evolution from CSICOP investigating Bigfoot to Shermer expanding skepticism to 'thiking properly' and Kurtz effectively merging CSI and CFI. And A+ wants to boil the social justice ocean.

 

[William Parcher]

The people that would say undoubtedly that Bigfoot exists, are the 'knowers'. They have clearly 'seen' a Bigfoot and will not listen to any logic to the contrary.

IMO these are mostly pretenders too. They are pretending to know and believe that Bigfoot exists. They have just chosen the persona of knower and proceed with their hobby that way. Bigfootery can now be strictly an online hobby so some can keep anonymity if they choose. You can run your own fantasy world at the keyboard.

 

[Drewbot]

I agree with that.

However some of the knowers are in denial about what really happened to them.
They forgot their meds, or have a sleep disorder, and saw something that they think would label them as crazy if they searched the actual source. The Bigfoot explanation is a far better explanation to people who are terrified of being labeled as crazy.

 

[stanfr]

My opinion:

A vast majority of the General Public does not think Bigfoot is out there.

Many of the Bigfooters know that there isn't a Bigfoot.

I would even say that many of your mainstream celebrity Bigfooters do not believe Bigfoot is real.

Unfortunately i dont have the stats to back this up, but i disagree. When i wrote a book about BF in 2005 (and i don't believe in BF) afterwards i was approached by many friends and acquaintances who expressed a belief that BF at the very least "could" be out there. I think the percentage of believers in the general public is fairly high. And this doesn't surprise me in the least bit, cause i am acquainted with many otherwise intelligent people who believe in ID, homeopathy, CTs, and many other wacky things. It's all symptomatic of a broad lack in critical thinking that is a serious problem overall.

 

[comncents]

My opinion:

A vast majority of the General Public does not think Bigfoot is out there.

Many of the Bigfooters know that there isn't a Bigfoot.

I would even say that many of your mainstream celebrity Bigfooters do not believe Bigfoot is real.


The people that would say undoubtedly that Bigfoot exists, are the 'knowers'. They have clearly 'seen' a Bigfoot and will not listen to any logic to the contrary. there are 10,000 sightings in databases, if we multiply that by 10, (for those that keep it secret) a 100,000 'knowers' out there in the country. That is far lower precentage of people than have a disorder like Narcolepsy, or are skipping their anti-depressants, or anti-hallucination drugs. Far far fewer.

I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of the post, but disagree with the 10x multiplier of those "keeping it secret". If the overwhelming majority of reports are just "stories" (lies), then by default, there is no "fear of embarrassment" of coming forward. Claming that there are many more "actual sightings" than are reported is just a Footerism.

 

[blutoski]

Unfortunately i dont have the stats to back this up, but i disagree. When i wrote a book about BF in 2005 (and i don't believe in BF) afterwards i was approached by many friends and acquaintances who expressed a belief that BF at the very least "could" be out there. I think the percentage of believers in the general public is fairly high. And this doesn't surprise me in the least bit, cause i am acquainted with many otherwise intelligent people who believe in ID, homeopathy, CTs, and many other wacky things. It's all symptomatic of a broad lack in critical thinking that is a serious problem overall.

There are surveys about paranormal beliefs, and while the questions vary from survey to survey, the trend appears to be that belief in BF (Sasquatch here in BC) is surprisingly high, but declining.

I think in the 1980s it was as high as 60% of the population, but is less than half that now (29%), based on an [Angus Reid study from 2012] (I'm curious to learn why it was commissioned). The answer seems to be very sensitive to the wording of the question, and there are often confusing contradictions that make interpretation difficult.

 

[Drewbot]

COMNCNTS
"For those that keep it secret" was an homage to Bigfootry.

I just multiplied the 10X to show that even if there were 100,000 actual sightings it would still be a small number compared to the number of people out there with a rare sleep-disorder or Abusing, or neglecting their Psychotic meds.

 

[Morchella]

Early 80s I stopped by an old friends home who I hadn't seen in a few years. With me I had a case of Sierra Nevada "Bigfoot Ale". As the night went on the four or five of us there started talking about Bigfoot. One friend who had been a wilderness ranger in Lassen National Forest was sure she heard Bigfoot one night. It was a strange sound and she assumed it could have only been from Bigfoot. Ever the skeptic I started asking questions like, Have you heard a mountain lion before? Have you heard a Sage Grouse. Both have very eery sounds. Domestic sheep make very strange sounds too and they are common in that forest. I piled it on and fueled by that lip smackin ale, before I knew it I had offended her deeply. It took a few years to repair that night. We don't talk Bigfoot anymore.
The rest of the world can eff off because in Northern California we OWN Bigfoot. The rest of you should make up your own imaginary creature.

 

[blutoski]

The rest of the world can eff off because in Northern California we OWN Bigfoot. The rest of you should make up your own imaginary creature.

There's a [thread] at JREF started in 2008 about the First Nations myths that predated and inspired it, such as BC's Sasquatch.

 

[Drewbot]

At least Morchella likes a finely crafted beer.

 

[rockinkt]

There's a [thread] at JREF started in 2008 about the First Nations myths that predated and inspired it, such as BC's Sasquatch.

Can't think of any First Nations myths in BC that inspired Bigfoot.
However, I can think of a European named J.W. Burns who invented the term "Sasquatch" back in the 1920's and published some stories he claimed he was told by some First Nations people.

There are no legends or art in the Sto:lo culture that represent the creature described by Burns. He either made up the stories whole cloth - or was told fibs by the locals for fun.
Certainly not the first or last time an outsider looking for strange stories was led on and made fun of by the locals.

 

[mike3]

Finally, there's the shere waste of it all. The amount of money spent on bigfoot could do wonders if applied to actual research. And bigfoot is BORING compared to some of the stuff that's really out there. Seriously, what's an ape compared to a walking colloney of bryozoa? To borophagus? To a member of the Ediacaran Fauna? How about the polar bear/brown bear hybrids in Europe? Fungi that cover square MILES? Animals that have mastered immortality? All of those things are (or were) real, they existed, in some cases they still exist! Yet funding that could go to studying these organisms gets funneled to "studying" something that doesn't exist. It'd be more useful to simply burn the money; at least that way the people spending it wouldn't actually be undermining science.

So how do you get the public in general interested in that stuff (after all, bigfoot is "BORING", as you say, so it should be possible) so that they'll put their money in that direction instead of spending it on Bigfoot and so thereby wasting it?

Does the prevalence of interest in Bigfoot, and not that kind of stuff, indicate something is really wrong with our educational system? If so, what would you suggest to fix it?