Bigfoot - serious, not follies

[LAL]

Methinks William Parcher's patience with creduloids, losing he is..

( Enjoying you contributions William.. Hope you will continue .. )

Thinking of filtering him, I am, but his contibutions may be showing some of the lurkers how inane some of the sceptical arguments are. Perhaps he should be encouraged for that alone.

 

[RayG]

Except that the footprints don't have the characteristics of human footprints. Besides the dermal ridges, there are things like the flatness (except in tracks of what seem to be very young individuals), the heel width, the toes..........

And yet they don't prove anything.

If you don't know anything about Wrinkle Foot, just say so.

I assumed you were talking about the Bossburg print. If not, I have no idea what you're talking about.

It was new to me too.

Is it actually new, or merely a new name for an old print?

Again, what do you base the 90% on?

I can raise that 90% to 100% if we're talking about possibilities. If we're talking about absolute proof -- there isn't any. I've also said that IF bigfoot exists it's no more paranormal than my cat.

RayG

 

[LTC8K6]

Lu, I maintain that you were indeed being intentionally obtuse regarding ways that bigfoot tracks could be hoaxed.

For example, there is no way that you actually believe someone would have to step over a fence to make a right foot appear on one side and a left foot appear on the other.

You aren't that stupid, despite your insistence about having to step over the fence.

It's just that admitting that it can be done without stepping over the fence means that the tracks might not be bigfoot's, and you won't make that admission.

 

[LAL]

Stuff it, LAL. Until you or your Bigfoot buddies rides into town with a gigantic bipedal primate carcass draped over your hood, you guys got all the nasty stuff stuck up your own arse.

That's no way to talk to a lady, William. I suggest you stop it.
<snip>

You are way cool for your indefatigability in this thread.

Thank you.

You haven't budged the needle one millimeter closer to 'Bigfoot is Real'. Who cares. It's a myth. Nobody can possibly show that the beast is real. But, that doesn't matter. It's how you play the game. The Bigfoot Game. Yippee kiyah yea. You keep wearing those cowboy boots, Gimlin. You are ridin' a monkey dream. The dream that a dream monkey is a real monkey in the world of thinking monkeys. Monkey monkey monkey.

Sorry if I drove you crazy, William. I certainly didn't mean to. I suggest you take a Thiothixene and come back when you're calmer.

I think you've summed up the sceptical stance pretty well, though. It seems to boil down to,"I don't believe it, therefore it's a myth, and all your evidence won't make me chance my mind."

Interesting.

 

[LTC8K6]

For the record, evidence of bigfoot will make me change my mind immediately.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Show me more articles and interviews where he said she stopped. This is the first I've seen on that.


Is every statement you make, backed up by two ore more episodes? Does that make a statement more valid ? Did Patterson scream ' misquote ' regarding the Argossy article ?


That would be Bill. Are you two related? You kind our sound alike sometimes. Be advised that ad hominen attacks aren't going to get you antwhere.


It is not ad hom if it is true and relevant to the debate. You continue to appear dense and obtuse, but I also have evidence you are not either; so I am witholding final judgement at this time.



I've already posted about the second reel not being returned to Patterson. Ten feet were removed and shown on documentaries. As to the first reel, ask Patricia Patterson. She may know; I don't.
I'm thinking it may have gone to her when Dahinden died.

And I'm sure you can understand why your accounting for the film is of no value, or do we need to go over the ' dense ' thing again ?

 

[RayG]

Nobody can possibly show that the beast is real.

Not without bringing in a body anyway.

RayG

 

[LAL]

LAL wirtes: He's showing proportions here. The pics aren't to scale. BH is 6'2"...

Exactly. You have continually argued that the proportions are not possibly those of a human. It appears, however, that they are. Scale is irrelevant, since one cannot accurately judge the size of the bigfoot in the film unless you have an absolute reference point in the film which is either the same distance from the camera as the bigfoot was, or a known distance which could be calculated if one also knew for sure what focal length lens was used (and not unless!). If one knew within a very very small range what distance the camera was from the bigfoot and also what focal length lens was used, one could also calculate its size, but as it is presented in the film, its size is entirely unknown because the distance is not known. Only its relative proportions are known. Proportions are relevant, and a superimposed image that shows this much similarity to human proportions means that the bigfoot in question has human proportions, as simple as that.

Try looking at the picture, then read Krantz for a detailed analysis of the film, and a few corrections on earlier analyses.

The pictures are given approximately the same size to show relative leg length, etc. Note the bulk. There's picture of Heironimus as he was in 1967 in Long's book. It's been posted on BFF. He was thin then, yet he claimed no padding was used. The rest of the thread has some adjustments. I don't really know who nightwing is other than a poster on BFF who has photoshop. I didn't present him as an authority. I suggested the rest of the thread be read because some of the points are clarified. Guess I'll have to check Rense.com myself. I've read a scathing review of Long's book on it.

Detailed measurements were taken by Titmus at the scene, Green had a 6'5" friend do a reenactment, the stride and footprint length is known, Krantz calculated the weight (the method is described in Bigfoot/Sasquatch Evidence)and arrived at 500 lbs., which was what Patterson told him, although Patterson's estimates ranged from 300-800 lbs. I've already mentioned the experiments with weight Green did.

 

[LTC8K6]

He was thin then, yet he claimed no padding was used.

I recall that BH said he had some football shoulder pads on, so I am not sure why the "no padding" line is constantly repeated.

It doesn't matter a whit anyway, even if BH said there was no padding.

If the padding was built into the suit, then BH would indeed say he wore no padding. He would be telling the truth. He could indeed have worn a suit without putting any padding on.

Given the thigh bulge, the padding could indeed be part of the suit and the thigh padding may have come loose.

Lu, I will say it again, you seem never to have given any thought to what a hoaxer would do. None at all.

That's hard to believe. That is why I brought up "intentionally obtuse".

It seems odd that you wouldn't have thought of padding being part of the suit. It's such an obvious thing to consider.

You can think of a horribly wrecked tendon though, and accept that. Even on a creature with such a cool smooth walk.

Strange.

 

[William Parcher]

I wouldn't describe Bob Heironimus as being thin back then. I would describe him as others have and can be seen here. He was muscular. Obviously he wasn't fat. He was also a friend of Patterson & Gimlin. He said that Patterson asked him to be the guy in the costume and would pay him for it. He never paid him.

Patterson thought that Heironimus did a damn good Bigfoot walk. He did and he still does.

Nice Vette too.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Another scientific tidbit from a BFRO expedition report..

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=448

Under whispered advice from our guides, we refrain from activating the infrared function of our night-vision goggles. "We're not certain, but we believe they may somehow have the capability to see that spectrum of light," says Jones. "They have exceptional night-vision capability, even better than owls, so we just have to let them come to us."

Not certain ? No shi......... uh, scat .. !

Better than owls, and infrared vision..

There is plenty of other crap to go around in this one paragraph, but can someone tell me if activating the infrared function of night-vision goggles, makes them ' emit ' infrared ? Or significantly more infrared than this group was already emitting to begin with ?

 

[Hellbound]

Another scientific tidbit from a BFRO expedition report..

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=448


Better than owls, and infrared vision..

There is plenty of other crap to go around in this one paragraph, but can someone tell me if activating the infrared function of night-vision goggles, makes them ' emit ' infrared ? Or significantly more infrared than this group was already emitting to begin with ?

Yes, it does. When using night vision goggles (NVGs) in passive mode you get a greenish tint on everything, but it doesn't always give a clear picture (for example, reading a book is most likely not gonna happen). The IR light gives much better clarity and resolution (you can read with it on), but would appear like a flashlight beam to any other NVGs out there. Think of it as an NVG-visible flashlight for a better idea of what it does.

 

[LTC8K6]

I have used NVG's in the U.S. Army and you do indeed have a passive and an active mode. The active mode does emit IR.

"We're not certain, but we believe they may somehow have the capability to see that spectrum of light," says Jones.

This is rather silly. As you hinted at Diogenes, if BF can see IR, then a warm homo sapiens will be easily spotted anyway.

A bunch of loud ones riding around the woods & playing amplified screeching noises all night must be really annoying to BF.

I suppose the active NVG mode would let BF see you a lot farther away. Supposing BF exists, that is.

Giving the mythical BF this IR ability nicely ties in with the fact that they can't seem to find one, so it is probably in one of their excuses somewhere.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Yes, it does. When using night vision goggles (NVGs) in passive mode you get a greenish tint on everything, but it doesn't always give a clear picture (for example, reading a book is most likely not gonna happen). The IR light gives much better clarity and resolution (you can read with it on), but would appear like a flashlight beam to any other NVGs out there. Think of it as an NVG-visible flashlight for a better idea of what it does.

That makes sense.. Thanks for setting me strait.. Need to have a slice of humble pie on that one..


However, in light of the IR signature of a bunch of people in the first place ( it doesn't say they were wearing thermal camo ), it doesn't seem that the use of IR goggles would be the deciding factor in keeping ol' Mr. Infrared vision, Sasquatch at bay..

Edit: I see LTC8K6 was going down the same path as I was posting.... I'm sure this will pass over some though..

 

[LTC8K6]

"Their intelligence is what makes them so difficult to track," says Robert Lieterman, a park ranger and BFRO volunteer from Fortuna, Calif." But like many other wild creatures, they are very territorial, so we can use that trait to help study them."

When a Bigfoot's space has been intruded upon, says Moneymaker, the creature will resort to intimidation. "They'll break off large branches in the darkness and smash them against the surrounding trees to let you know their power," he claims. "Sometimes they'll actually throw those branches in your direction or even bluff charge to try and frighten you."

Bobo Fay, a regular on BFRO expeditions, says he learned firsthand about the Sasquatch's territorial behavior. On a late-night field trip in Northern California, he had set out on his own to "call-blast"—the BFRO term for playing back audio recordings of Bigfoot vocalizations on portable speakers—at a location 14 miles from the nearest town. "I was sitting in a field a few yards from the tree line when I began getting some response from a distance and realized, as I sent out more calls, that the replies were getting closer," Fay recalls. "It took almost 45 minutes until he was on the edge of the tree line, and I could see him pretty clearly moving in the shadows. His screams were incredibly powerful, and my usually fearless pit bull was terrified, hiding in the back of the camper. This `squatch had broken off a huge branch and was smashing it against the trees. You'd have thought it was Barry Bonds in there swinging that branch from the sounds it made. He was also shaking these 70-foot trees and making them swing like they were in a gale. This went on for what seemed like an hour, with my dog cowering in fear and me with tears streaming out of my eyes. When I finally got in the truck and tried to drive out of there, it was alongside. I was doing 30, and it kept up easy. Even now it still makes the hair on my neck tingle when I think about it, but that's why I'm here. I can't resist the possibility of another encounter; only now, I'm far better mentally prepared."

And sometimes they just stroll off nonchalantly on camera as if they couldn't care less about their territory or anything else.

I guess these expeditions need to try to run across Patty again.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=448

 

[LTC8K6]

"There aren't too many unknowns left in our universe," says Moneymaker. "But just imagine the thrill of 'discovering' a new primate species, something as huge as Gigantopithicus, which has long been thought extinct, living here among us for hundreds of years, going largely unseen. That's something really worth devoting your life to." Or, for those in search of unique adventure, it might be worth a couple of nights in the woods.

Unless one of them sits down right near you and eats your bait only hours ago, then it's time to go home and forget about the thrill.....

Unless you get really close to one, then it's time to get out of the woods and forget about those unknowns.....

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=448

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Giving the mythical BF this IR ability nicely ties in with the fact that they can't seem to find one, so it is probably in one of their excuses somewhere.

It's much more sinister than this.

A Bigfoot found a pair of NVG's in a downed Cessna ( in the PNW ) a while back..
He figured out what they were and how they work..

You know, it just occured to me.. What would be the evolutionary advantage of having IR vision, if you had better night vision than an owl ?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

he had set out on his own to "call-blast"—the BFRO term for playing back audio recordings of Bigfoot vocalizations on portable speakers

Can you imagine how this has spiraled..

Bigfoot hunters have been playing recordings of Bigfoot, that have been recorded by other Bigfoot hunters ... and on and on and on....


And now we have Bigfoot running 30mph, a Forest Ranger in tears and a Pit Bull cowering in fear.. Still no body though...

 

[LTC8K6]

"EACH OF US has a considerable body of personal information that we've gathered on our field trips over the years," states Jones, a full-time security guard at southeastern Washington's now-deactivated Hanford nuclear site, over dinner earlier that night. "It's available to any other serious researchers once we've verified their intent."

So, if you are not a believer you can't see the "considerable body of personal information" on bigfoot.

What a way to run a railroad.....

They are never going to get anywhere at all, even if there really are bigfoots out there.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=448

What would be the evolutionary advantage of having IR vision, if you had better night vision than an owl ?

I don't know, but I hope BF can turn it off when the sun comes up.

 

[LTC8K6]

Bigfoot hunters have been playing recordings of Bigfoot, that have been recorded by other Bigfoot hunters ... and on and on and on....

Not only that, but you've got folks like Melvin Skahan who can do the bigfoot yowl all by himself.