False dilemma/dichotomy. Footers seem to love that one.
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False dilemma/dichotomy. Footers seem to love that one.
Why do so many enthusiasts think Sykes is one of "them?" I see this a lot; did he say something to lead them on? I've never read anything that might indicate that, but then again, I haven't read much about his involvement in this whole mess.
Because they can't fathom the thought that a scientist who wasn't a footer might want to put it all to rest by doing a formal study.
Wait until he says it's all poppycock and the results say known animals and humans. The cries of "they got to him" and silly CIA coverups will start (the fact that he is British will go right over their heads)
Wait until he says it's all poppycock and the results say known animals and humans. The cries of "they got to him" and silly CIA coverups will start (the fact that he is British will go right over their heads)
With respect, I've never seen this said.
His statements at the outset were along the lines of 'there's nothing in this, but I'll have a look anyway', so if there are people misrepresenting his position, they are just wrong. Can you point to any evidence for your claim?
OntarioSquatch
Graduate Poster
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He's stated that they might discover something, but that it's highly unlikely. He's also accepted Rhettman Mullis' request of becoming a Bigfootology team member and is speaking at their Bigfoot conference in a couple weeks, but that's about it as far as I know. If that makes him a footer then whatever. But I hope you guys realize that he's not in it to play typical footer games. He's in it for the discovery.
River
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At what point does it become (to footers) completely ridiculous, the idea of a 400-1200 lb 7-10 foot tall undiscovered bipedal ape roaming North American forests? It is 2013, and humans are widely dispersed across this land. These reports, are all mistaken identity, fabrications, or hoaxes.
THAT is what the "evidence leads to". It leads to story tellers, pranks, gold digging hoaxers, and more classic circus side show acts. It leads to everything except for a real animal. At what point can you reasonably believe it is still there? (Although, most folks know it's crap due to critical thinking skills, and simple logic after investigating the phenomenon.)
At some point (footers) must jump through an amazing number of hoops to come to a conclusion that there is something real out there. (of course, after you take out the liars, cons, and deluded - which may be a large portion of the long lasting proponents) Seems like most folks with an interest in the subject figure out pretty quickly that it's a joke, a prank etc.
The story tellers, and "habituation" claims are the funniest. How many are seriously deluded? I would guess a very small amount. Most of them seem to be attention seekers, or imagining that every twig snap and animal call "might be bigfoot" due to over active imaginations, or just plain old making up lies to tell good camp fire scary stories. My gosh, people would never do such a thing!
I saw a post earlier today when I browsed through the BFF saying other phenomenon nothing compares to bigfoot as far as claims/witnesses etc. WRONG! Try ghosts, UFOs, Aliens, and a number of other ones that have even more reports than bigfoot.
Guess what? Their reported range is alarmingly similar to bigfoot reports, and *gasp* even more similar to the human populations reported range. 2+2=1 if you're a bigfooter. If you're not, you may notice that every single kind of reported evidence has been explained and the source comes back to man, either hoaxing/fabricating or misidentifying other existing fauna sign. Bigfooters do not see this as proof of source. They only want to see bigfoot proven to be the source. So badly, they will lie, contort and squeeze every cherry picked conclusion to support their fantasy.
It is not different than other social constructs. But will folks like mulder or dwa, or a number of other hard core proponents open their eyes to reality? No, because it's fun to play the game. Deep inside they probably know it's not real. It may tend to be more about winning and losing, and the human spirit of competition. It might be more about pride, and the lols for some. The simple truth is: there is nothing to it. I've lost hope that "educating" footers to the truth is the answer. I think that being crass, and maybe lol'ing at the stupidity might be more effective in "eye opening" than simply telling people the truth, or trying to show people that its just a fantasy. It's become apparent to me after years of interest in the subject that its not about a beast. It's about people, and how gullible they are, and how many good liars there are out there.
Not the PC answer? Cool, but its the truth. (as I see it)
Where does that leave folks like Meldrum? (deluded, fabricator/liar, uneducated on the phenomenon?) I see him as a fraud, a snake oil salesman.
THAT is what the "evidence leads to". It leads to story tellers, pranks, gold digging hoaxers, and more classic circus side show acts. It leads to everything except for a real animal. At what point can you reasonably believe it is still there? (Although, most folks know it's crap due to critical thinking skills, and simple logic after investigating the phenomenon.)
At some point (footers) must jump through an amazing number of hoops to come to a conclusion that there is something real out there. (of course, after you take out the liars, cons, and deluded - which may be a large portion of the long lasting proponents) Seems like most folks with an interest in the subject figure out pretty quickly that it's a joke, a prank etc.
The story tellers, and "habituation" claims are the funniest. How many are seriously deluded? I would guess a very small amount. Most of them seem to be attention seekers, or imagining that every twig snap and animal call "might be bigfoot" due to over active imaginations, or just plain old making up lies to tell good camp fire scary stories. My gosh, people would never do such a thing!
I saw a post earlier today when I browsed through the BFF saying other phenomenon nothing compares to bigfoot as far as claims/witnesses etc. WRONG! Try ghosts, UFOs, Aliens, and a number of other ones that have even more reports than bigfoot.
Guess what? Their reported range is alarmingly similar to bigfoot reports, and *gasp* even more similar to the human populations reported range. 2+2=1 if you're a bigfooter. If you're not, you may notice that every single kind of reported evidence has been explained and the source comes back to man, either hoaxing/fabricating or misidentifying other existing fauna sign. Bigfooters do not see this as proof of source. They only want to see bigfoot proven to be the source. So badly, they will lie, contort and squeeze every cherry picked conclusion to support their fantasy.
It is not different than other social constructs. But will folks like mulder or dwa, or a number of other hard core proponents open their eyes to reality? No, because it's fun to play the game. Deep inside they probably know it's not real. It may tend to be more about winning and losing, and the human spirit of competition. It might be more about pride, and the lols for some. The simple truth is: there is nothing to it. I've lost hope that "educating" footers to the truth is the answer. I think that being crass, and maybe lol'ing at the stupidity might be more effective in "eye opening" than simply telling people the truth, or trying to show people that its just a fantasy. It's become apparent to me after years of interest in the subject that its not about a beast. It's about people, and how gullible they are, and how many good liars there are out there.
Not the PC answer? Cool, but its the truth. (as I see it)
Where does that leave folks like Meldrum? (deluded, fabricator/liar, uneducated on the phenomenon?) I see him as a fraud, a snake oil salesman.
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OntarioSquatch
Graduate Poster
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I guess reality may have kicked in for him. That the subject is Bigfoot.
The difference of course is that ghosts, aliens and other paranormal phenomena require the setting aside of laws of physics, or other fundamental laws of our universe (which isn't too much of a hurdle for some of the good folk who follow the phenomena closely). That isn't the same with sasquatch. The other stuff is impossible. Sasquatch is just exceedingly unlikely.
Jerrymander
Muse
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@River, they would probably respond to your post by saying "You're not familiar with the evidence." They would continue to hold up the PGF, Skookum cast and say that they haven't been debunked because they debunked the debunking.
On the other thread. And in the other asylum posters seem to think Sykes is going to bail out Ketchum (DVM) and one even claimed that he's (Sykes) contacted Ketchum (DVM) to discuss her paper.OntarioSquatch said:
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As unlikely as mermaids?
RedRatSnake
Slithering Through life
Don't loose sight of the fact that this whole BF thing started from a hoax, there never was any scientific base to it, it was only folklore.
Tim
Erm, yes, I guess, but I've got no evidence about either. You could argue that neither animal would break the fundamental laws of the universe, so each are possible (although not as described).
Don't try and drag me into discussing % possibilities, though. All I am talking about is the impossibility of some phenomena reported by witnesses, contrasted with the possibility of others. "Possible" doesn't have any meaning in this context other than "doesn't destroy everything we know about the way the universe works".
Mike
Okay, without dragging you anywhere too hypothetical, do you think it's possible that there's a family of nine (9) Sasquatch living on a small farmette in Kentucky, not attracting any attention save that of a few "researchers" in the know?
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