Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

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George, you mentioned in the welcome thread that you had multiple encounters. Do you wish to share them? You can start a new thread if it's off topic.

Thanks.
 
George Kennedy said:
When I examine a crime scene, I can determine an "approximate" height of a subject through measurement of the stride pattern. This is not 100% science, but pretty close. Also, you can determine the weight of a subject through impression depth left in loose soil, mud, clay, etc. This test can be performed through measurement of our own impressions in the same test area. (many criteria can change such as weather, moisture of the soil content, etc) which can cause this test to vary. These are just a very, very few tests I use to determine the height, weight, of a suspect. I am confident these same tests are used to determine the height/weight numbers used by the Sasquatch investigators.
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What about fake footprints? Did your law enforcement training include intensive instruction on how to detect and evaluate "human footprints" that weren't actually made by a walking human?

Do the police have to deal with that very much?
 
Or, is there a training course something like...

When Criminals Disguise Their Own Footprints To Look Like Some Other Species - 101
 
Would your police training have enabled you to determine the true height and weight of the creature whose multiple tracks were found in Florida in 1948?


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No. We were not trained to determine if footprints were faked or not. Different type of science. Usually, when someone is committing a crime, they do not have time to go back and create a fake crime scene. Good point. BUT, how much effort and collaboration would it take to create a large scale conspiracy of educated people who are capable of creating large, deep footprints with dermal ridging and the break. These people are then dispersed throughout regions of the country where people usually never frequent, and they place these perfectly hoaxed, realistic tracks in areas that 99 out of 100 times will never be viewed by human beings? I am not looking at the science when I look at thing like this. First, take a common sense approach and if you can explain the above with a truly realist, believable, easy answer, then case solved. However, most people will not even get up off the couch to walk to change the channel on their t.v "little lone" attend an underground class on sasquatch footprint hoaxing and then travel to remote areas around the U.S initiating their newly found trade while all the time knowing that the main stream science community and the general public will immediatly say fraud before considering the facts. People are very lazy, uninformed creatures by nature. Often a hoaxer will go into the wood shop, cut out a plywood foot and strap it to their boot and go trudging through the woods laughing and snorting all the way. (I assume anyway.) These things could be easily dismissed by anyone. The average person would recognize hoax immediately. Usually, if it doesn't look real, it ain't real.
 
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This does not appear to have "human like" characteristics. We based our determinations on things with human-like characteristics. You could give general height-weight averages for these prints however we would be basing this on human gait, etc. Who knows what the limb to torso ratio of this thing is? (Personally, looks fake to me.) But, I am a skeptic of things like this.
 
I will share the encounters. I actually have a photo of a track. I will give indepth details of my encounters later today. I am catching up on some of the other replies I need to make before I delve into the darkside.
 
No. I have never seen a werewolf. I was just sayin-I believed in a Sasquatch about as much as werewolfs, Dracula, Santa Claus etc.
 
George Kennedy said:
No. We were not trained to determine if footprints were faked or not. Different type of science.
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Which branch of science determines if footprints are fake or not?



...how much effort and collaboration would it take to create a large scale conspiracy of educated people who are capable of creating large, deep footprints with dermal ridging and the break.
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Did that fake-footprint-detecting-branch-of-science already determine that the tracks are from genuine Bigfoots?
 
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I have. No sarcasm. I am recognized (or I use to be before retiring. I now teach school.) as an expert witness in court. Check out my post in the Introduce yourself thread. Also, I have made some info. available on the last page of this thread. (To much info. to re-hash.)
 
George Kennedy said:
No. We were not trained to determine if footprints were faked or not. Different type of science. Usually, when someone is committing a crime, they do not have time to go back and create a fake crime scene. Good point. BUT, how much effort and collaboration would it take to create a large scale conspiracy of educated people who are capable of creating large, deep footprints with dermal ridging and the break. These people are then dispersed throughout regions of the country where people usually never frequent, and they place these perfectly hoaxed, realistic tracks in areas that 99 out of 100 times will never be viewed by human beings? I am not looking at the science when I look at thing like this. First, take a common sense approach and if you can explain the above with a truly realist, believable, easy answer, then case solved. However, most people will not even get up off the couch to walk to change the channel on their t.v "little lone" attend an underground class on sasquatch footprint hoaxing and then travel to remote areas around the U.S initiating their newly found trade while all the time knowing that the main stream science community and the general public will immediatly say fraud before considering the facts. People are very lazy, uninformed creatures by nature. Often a hoaxer will go into the wood shop, cut out a plywood foot and strap it to their boot and go trudging through the woods laughing and snorting all the way. (I assume anyway.) These things could be easily dismissed by anyone. The average person would recognize hoax immediately. Usually, if it doesn't look real, it ain't real.
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The claimed dermal ridges are a casting artifact. The fingerprint guy who thought they were real wasn't knowledgable about casts because fingerprint guys don't make casts.
Remote locations where people seldom go? Actually not true, and in many cases the early finds were made by the people who made the tracks. See Paul Freeman, Ivan Marx, Roger Patterson. If it looks fake...? Ha. see Blue Creek mountain tracks, Jeff Meldrum and Ray Wallace.
Pranks and hoaxing are fun. We have an unofficial holiday dedicated to that. April fools day. There is no science of April fools day. People just confess, by shouting "April fools!!!!" but in bigfootery even when someone confesses the victims won't believe they were fooled...see Bob heironimus, Ray Wallace family.
Conspiracies? Is April Fools a conspiracy? Do kids scare each other on campouts as part of a national conspiracy? How much research do you have to to find a foot to use as a model? I can see two about five feet away right now.
Do you know about the Internet?
 
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This is the exact type of sarcasm I am speaking of. If a trained examiner looks at something and through experience, makes an educated evaluation, that is all that can be done. For every piece of training that I have received (I graduated from the WV State Police Academy-consistently ranked among the top 3 academies in the nation) there will always be someone, somewhere to come up with a silly "what if?" About the "fake footprint detecting branch of science" that you are talking about, I don't know-never heard of it. We are trained to deal with the real life impressions left by living breathing beings. If a print, whether it be a finger print or footprint, doesn't meet the criteria as being "real" then we assume that it is either a fake or unidentifiable. You can find reasons to attack any persons conclusions they may reach because that is exactly what it is: A persons trained opinion of what they have examined. If I could have told my father who has been deceased since 1976 that one day I would have the knowledge of all the world at my fingertips by simplying asking a device for the answers. I would have been looked upon as either an extreme crack pot or God-like. Every day the young kids that I teach simply assume that the internet has been here since the beginning of time. I would have been considered a crazed prophetic psycho then, now the internet is old news that most everyone uses on a daily basis.
 
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George Kennedy said:
No. We were not trained to determine if footprints were faked or not. Different type of science. Usually, when someone is committing a crime, they do not have time to go back and create a fake crime scene. Good point. BUT, how much effort and collaboration would it take to create a large scale conspiracy of educated people who are capable of creating large, deep footprints with dermal ridging and the break. These people are then dispersed throughout regions of the country where people usually never frequent, and they place these perfectly hoaxed, realistic tracks in areas that 99 out of 100 times will never be viewed by human beings? I am not looking at the science when I look at thing like this. First, take a common sense approach and if you can explain the above with a truly realist, believable, easy answer, then case solved. However, most people will not even get up off the couch to walk to change the channel on their t.v "little lone" attend an underground class on sasquatch footprint hoaxing and then travel to remote areas around the U.S initiating their newly found trade while all the time knowing that the main stream science community and the general public will immediatly say fraud before considering the facts. People are very lazy, uninformed creatures by nature. Often a hoaxer will go into the wood shop, cut out a plywood foot and strap it to their boot and go trudging through the woods laughing and snorting all the way. (I assume anyway.) These things could be easily dismissed by anyone. The average person would recognize hoax immediately. Usually, if it doesn't look real, it ain't real.
Click to expand...
The claimed dermal ridges are a casting artifact.
Most of the early finds were made by the people who made the tracks. See Paul Freeman, Ivan Marx, Roger Patterson. If it looks fake...? Ha. see Blue Creek mountain tracks, Jeff Meldrum and Ray Wallace. And especially see Paul Freeman's Festival of Freaky Footprints, endorsed by Dr. Jeff Meldrum, assoc professor.
Pranks and hoaxing are fun. We have an unofficial holiday dedicated to that. April fools day. There is no science of April fools day. People just confess, by shouting "April fools!!!!" but in bigfootery even when someone confesses the victims won't believe they were fooled...see Bob heironimus, Ray Wallace family.
Conspiracies? Is April Fools a conspiracy? Do kids scare each other on campouts as part of a national conspiracy? How much research do you have to to find a foot to use as a model? I can see two about five feet away right now.
Do you know about the Internet?
 
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April fools jokes get old after awhile. Seriously, I am not looking at/nor attacking peoples credibility, why they would or wouldn't lie etc. To believe that a "joke" would continue on for decade after decade w/o anyone really acknowledging the truthfulness of the joke is unbelievable in itself. A several hundred year joke that repeatedly crops up in certain regions yearly while credible people claiming to see these things (who are part of the joke) is just to hard for a rational thinking person to swallow. Sure, there are pranksters, hoaxers, etc. But, for everyone that willfully sets out to fool the public, there are many, many more who do not. Realize the seriousness of the allegation they are making, look at the persons credibility, check their back ground, etc. If all adds up to be a positive-it is hard to look at the evidence, person, etc and say, "Nope, liar," or "Nah, you are mistaken." Way, way to many encounters to discount all of them as hoaxers or misidentifications every time. I handled eye witness testimony this way. Also, the average human does not have a foot large enough to be mistaken as a Sasquatch, nor would they be heavy enough to leave indentions to cause reason to believe anything out of the norm. was taking place. I am 6'3 245lbs. and I wear a size twelve/thirteen shoe. In no way would my footprint be mistaken for anything other than a human print. Also, once again-how does these hoaxers have the knowledge to create an active, moving fake footprint that has life like movement. I have worked with wood as a hobby for years and I do not have that skill or ability. People who would have that skill are usually educated enough not to use their abilities in this fashion. Generally speaking, hoaxers are either teens or lower educated people with nothing better to do. They would not generally have the "know how" to construct such a foot print replica with such detail. Again-common sense approach w/o all of the what ifs.
 
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George Kennedy said:
We are trained to deal with the real life impressions left by living breathing beings. If a print, whether it be a finger print or footprint, doesn't meet the criteria as being "real" then we assume that it is either a fake or unidentifiable.
Click to expand...


So, what you are saying is that the Police Academy trains you to determine if a footprint is real or faked.

That's what I was talking about. Then police training is the science of real and fake footprints, right?
 
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