Biden for President?

[theprestige]

By numerous accounts, VP Biden and her own hubby tried to warn her. She preferred to believe her fawning pollsters.

Apparently there was a campaign strategy call on election night that went something like this:

"How can we be losing Florida?"

"Our model was wrong."

"Okay, we can recover. We're still looking strong in the next several states."

"You don't understand: If our model is wrong in Florida, it's wrong everywhere."

Dramatic, but I don't know if it's actually true.

 

[Elvis666]

Apparently there was a campaign strategy call on election night that went something like this:

"How can we be losing Florida?"

"Our model was wrong."

"Okay, we can recover. We're still looking strong in the next several states."

"You don't understand: If our model is wrong in Florida, it's wrong everywhere."

Dramatic, but I don't know if it's actually true.

Dude, that's good. I could see that bit of dialog in a decent movie. I could almost hear a music cue just after your italics.

(Rereading, my comment could be taken as sarcastic. It was not intended so.)

 

[theprestige]

Dude, that's good. I could see that bit of dialog in a decent movie. I could almost hear a music cue just after your italics.

(Rereading, my comment could be taken as sarcastic. It was not intended so.)

The NYT reporter embedded with the Clinton 2016 campaign wrote a book about the experience. I found it fascinating. It changed my perspective on Hillary for the better. It also didn't seem to pull any punches about the shortcomings of her campaign. The account of that strategy call comes from the book.

 

[Delvo]

The Democrats' model can't really be said to be "wrong" anymore. Now it's just false. There might once, hypothetically, have been a time when they seriously didn't know how elections & politics work, but that time is past. They can't not know anymore. To still be clinging to the most most ineffective campaigns they can come up with for the most unelectable candidates they can find (no how many times they call them "ELECTABLE!!!!"), only to end up perpetually rolling over for the Republicans if they still somehow end up in office anyway, can only be because losing has become their goal. They do, after all, personally profit from the same system in the same way as the Republicans.

 

[varwoche]

"They" That's one of the biggest problems with your presentation.

Who is they? And by what means do these amorphous entities pull off the shenanigans you accuse them of?

Add: If we're to assign blame for the Biden nomination, then I urge ""they" to get behind someone a whole lot better than Bernie.

 

[theprestige]

The Democrats' model can't really be said to be "wrong" anymore. Now it's just false. There might once, hypothetically, have been a time when they seriously didn't know how elections & politics work, but that time is past. They can't not know anymore. To still be clinging to the most most ineffective campaigns they can come up with for the most unelectable candidates they can find (no how many times they call them "ELECTABLE!!!!"), only to end up perpetually rolling over for the Republicans if they still somehow end up in office anyway, can only be because losing has become their goal. They do, after all, personally profit from the same system in the same way as the Republicans.

What are you talking about? Hillary Clinton's campaign used a strategy that relied heavily on statistical modeling using opinion poll data. They opted to go big with this approach, to the point of ignoring other sources of information (such as reports from campaign workers on the ground in swing states). There was no "Democrats' model". There is no "Democrats' model" today. There's whatever strategy the Biden team comes up with. It will probably rely on opinion polls to some extent, but not to the unreasonable extent that Hillary's team seemed to.

Of course the Democrats know how elections work. But the mind of the electorate is still very much a black box. The Hillary campaign's mistake was thinking they had an accurate statistical prediction of what was going on inside that box. In the event, it wasn't quite accurate enough. Unfortunately they gambled almost everything on its accuracy, and did not allocate enough resources to contingency plans. Including enough space in their own heads to consider that contingency plans might become necessary.

I doubt Biden will make the same mistake, but that doesn't mean he'll win.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Being someone under the age of 50, it's fun to delve back into Biden's career and review all the old, bizarre lies he's told.

Here's a fun fact. Biden lied about how his wife and child died in the fatal car accident. He falsely claimed that the other driver, a semi-truck driver named Mr. Dunn, was drunk and caused the accident. On numerous public occasions, Biden claimed that Mr. Dunn was a drunk and negligent driver, and this narrative became widely accepted as true when repeated by journalists through the years.

There is no indication that the driver was drunk. In fact, accident investigations reveal that Mr. Dunn had the right of way and was not at fault for the accident. Mrs. Biden was at fault for the accident when she failed to yield to a tractor-trailer that had the right of way, causing a nasty T-bone accident that unfortunately ended two lives. Mr. Dunn attempted to provide first aid after the accident.

There was never any indication from accident investigators at the time that Mr. Dunn did anything to cause the wreck or was drunk at the time. Biden made this up out of whole cloth.

Biden lied about this for decades, slandering the man until after he had died. He later apologized to the man's daughter for slandering her father as the drunk-driver killer of a Senator's family.


Cool guy.

“Growing up, my dad never talked about it. He always got very solemn around Christmastime because the anniversary was Dec. 18, and he never wanted to celebrate the holidays,” Hamill said. “When newspapers had anniversary articles (about the crash), we hid them from dad.”

https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/local/daughter-of-man-in-72-biden-crash-seeks-apology-from-widowed-senator/article_6c9a477e-63be-561b-b771-1330b4cda02d.html

Doesn't really change the "lesser of two evils" thing, but let's not pretend Biden isn't a turd.

 

[uke2se]

Being someone under the age of 50, it's fun to delve back into Biden's career and review all the old, bizarre lies he's told.

Here's a fun fact. Biden lied about how his wife and child died in the fatal car accident. He falsely claimed that the other driver, a semi-truck driver named Mr. Dunn, was drunk and caused the accident. On numerous public occasions, Biden claimed that Mr. Dunn was a drunk and negligent driver, and this narrative became widely accepted as true when repeated by journalists through the years.

There is no indication that the driver was drunk. In fact, accident investigations reveal that Mr. Dunn had the right of way and was not at fault for the accident. Mrs. Biden was at fault for the accident when she failed to yield to a tractor-trailer that had the right of way, causing a nasty T-bone accident that unfortunately ended two lives.

Biden lied about this for decades, slandering the man until after he had died. He later apologized to the man's daughter for calling her father a killer drunk driver. No biggie.


Cool guy.



https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/local/daughter-of-man-in-72-biden-crash-seeks-apology-from-widowed-senator/article_6c9a477e-63be-561b-b771-1330b4cda02d.html

Doesn't really change the "lesser of two evils" thing, but let's not pretend Biden isn't a turd.

Don't know if that's indicative of being a turd. Sounds more indicative of grieving and blaming the pain on someone. Not correct behavior, but very human.

There are worse things to say about Biden. What we're telling you is that saying these things about Biden does not help him win in november, and that is something that we all need him to do. Basically, we are asking you to stick a cork in it until the danger is passed.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Don't know if that's indicative of being a turd. Sounds more indicative of grieving and blaming the pain on someone. Not correct behavior, but very human.

There are worse things to say about Biden. What we're telling you is that saying these things about Biden does not help him win in november, and that is something that we all need him to do. Basically, we are asking you to stick a cork in it until the danger is passed.

"Fake News" would be a much more succinct way of expressing this sentiment.

I reject any argument that, if we want Biden to win, we must reject basic principles of truth and fairness we hold dear.

He's a deeply flawed candidate and probably should not be president. Given the circumstances, him winning is the preferable option.

I'm not willing to pretend that he isn't a profligate liar, among other things.

 

[wareyin]

Being someone under the age of 50, it's fun to delve back into Biden's career and review all the old, bizarre lies he's told.

Here's a fun fact. Biden lied about how his wife and child died in the fatal car accident. He falsely claimed that the other driver, a semi-truck driver named Mr. Dunn, was drunk and caused the accident. On numerous public occasions, Biden claimed that Mr. Dunn was a drunk and negligent driver, and this narrative became widely accepted as true when repeated by journalists through the years.

There is no indication that the driver was drunk. In fact, accident investigations reveal that Mr. Dunn had the right of way and was not at fault for the accident. Mrs. Biden was at fault for the accident when she failed to yield to a tractor-trailer that had the right of way, causing a nasty T-bone accident that unfortunately ended two lives. Mr. Dunn attempted to provide first aid after the accident.

There was never any indication from accident investigators at the time that Mr. Dunn did anything to cause the wreck or was drunk at the time. Biden made this up out of whole cloth.

Biden lied about this for decades, slandering the man until after he had died. He later apologized to the man's daughter for slandering her father as the drunk-driver killer of a Senator's family.


Cool guy.



https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/local/daughter-of-man-in-72-biden-crash-seeks-apology-from-widowed-senator/article_6c9a477e-63be-561b-b771-1330b4cda02d.html

Doesn't really change the "lesser of two evils" thing, but let's not pretend Biden isn't a turd.

You're now bringing up decades old stories of how the man acted when he was grieving to try to drag him down, after your previous manufactured claims of dementia fell apart? How low is too low?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You're now bringing up decades old stories of how the man acted when he was grieving to try to drag him down, after your previous manufactured claims of dementia fell apart? How low is too low?

Biden slandered Mr. Dunn for over a decade. He told the story multiple times over the years. The alcohol allegation came solely from Biden, the police never suspected any recklessness on the part of Mr. Dunn at any time. He made it up.


It goes on the pile with all the other bizarre, self-serving lies. Like getting locked up in S. Africa. Or not supporting the Iraq War. Or fabricating how he personally pinned a Silver star on a war hero in a dramatic story of valor. Or being an advocate in the Civil Rights Movement.

Biden is a routine liar.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

You're now bringing up decades old stories of how the man acted when he was grieving to try to drag him down, after your previous manufactured claims of dementia fell apart? How low is too low?

How a person acts in times of struggle tells you a lot more about them than how they act in the good times.

What does inventing viscious slander about someone who did nothing wrong when angry look like at the geopolitical level?

We've seen that same paradigm on display in this very campaign cycle.

I can see why there's a growing call for no criticism of Biden. He shows us who he is when he's confronted with it.

 

[wareyin]

Biden slandered Mr. Dunn for over a decade. He told the story multiple times over the years.


It goes on the pile with all the other bizarre, self-serving lies. Like getting locked up in S. Africa. Or not supporting the Iraq War. Or fabricating how he personally pinned a Silver star on a war hero in a dramatic story of heroic soldiery.

Biden is a routine liar.

Like I said before, how low is too low for you to go? In your zeal to criticize Biden, you yourself have lied. Now you're attacking the man for not blaming his wife for her own death. This isn't coming off as an effort to maintain truth and fairness.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Like I said before, how low is too low for you to go? In your zeal to criticize Biden, you yourself have lied. Now you're attacking the man for not blaming his wife for her own death. This isn't coming off as an effort to maintain truth and fairness.

Slandering a man as a killer is probably too low for me. Don't think I'd ever do that.

Funny how the "lesser of two evil" crowd aren't willing to admit Biden's flaws, even though such flaws are implied by the argument. It's almost as if it's a cynical ploy used in bad faith.

I think Biden is a deeply flawed, untrustworthy individual who is also the preferable option to Trump. Why does this cause you so much distress?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Like I said before, how low is too low for you to go? In your zeal to criticize Biden, you yourself have lied. Now you're attacking the man for not blaming his wife for her own death. This isn't coming off as an effort to maintain truth and fairness.

False dichotomy.

Blaming his wife and fabricating a claim that the other driver was drunk were not the only two options.

 

[Delvo]

...until the danger is passed.

That's what defenders of the Democrats' crappy worthless candidates keep saying every single time. Exactly when will this perpetual stream of "just this one time right now" emergencies end? How will we know when this new age has dawned?

...because if that time will actually not come (and it hasn't yet after all the times we've heard this before), then it isn't really about this particular time, or any other particular time, at all... and if it isn't a matter of timing, then this endless mantra is just an excuse to keep the better side of the party suppressed forever.

 

[uke2se]

"Fake News" would be a much more succinct way of expressing this sentiment.

I reject any argument that, if we want Biden to win, we must reject basic principles of truth and fairness we hold dear.

He's a deeply flawed candidate and probably should not be president. Given the circumstances, him winning is the preferable option.

I'm not willing to pretend that he isn't a profligate liar, among other things.

You don't have to pretend anything. You are being asked to just stop giving ammunition to Trumpists until such a time as Trump is defeated. Keeping still and lying are two different concepts.

I agree with you that Biden is deeply flawed. I am also worried that a Trump victory will lead to even more death and destruction than he has caused during his previous four years as President. Because of this, I am willing to overlook Biden's weaknesses until he has defeated Trump. That is the number one, two through fifty-eighth priority.

 

[uke2se]

That's what defenders of the Democrats' crappy worthless candidates keep saying every single time. Exactly when will this perpetual stream of "just this one time right now" emergencies end? How will we know when this new age has dawned?

...because if that time will actually not come (and it hasn't yet after all the times we've heard this before), then it isn't really about this particular time, or any other particular time, at all... and if it isn't a matter of timing, then this endless mantra is just an excuse to keep the better side of the party suppressed forever.

Oh, come off it. You are not convincing anyone that the current situation isn't unique. That is because we are all living in reality. We can see it and compare to previous times.

 

[wareyin]

Slandering a man as a killer is probably too low for me. Don't think I'd ever do that.

Funny how the "lesser of two evil" crowd aren't willing to admit Biden's flaws, even though such flaws are implied by the argument. It's almost as if it's a cynical ploy used in bad faith.

I think Biden is a deeply flawed, untrustworthy individual who is also the preferable option to Trump. Why does this cause you so much distress?

When 99% of your post is about how bad Biden is (whether made up stuff, or merely trying to manufacture dirt out of a decades old story about how he handled his grief), I think the 1% fig leaf of "but he's preferable to Trump" isn't what you want people to focus on. When you sacrifice your "basic principles of truth and fairness we hold dear" to slander Biden, it's pretty clear those principles aren't all that dear to you.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You don't have to pretend anything. You are being asked to just stop giving ammunition to Trumpists until such a time as Trump is defeated. Keeping still and lying are two different concepts.

I agree with you that Biden is deeply flawed. I am also worried that a Trump victory will lead to even more death and destruction than he has caused during his previous four years as President. Because of this, I am willing to overlook Biden's weaknesses until he has defeated Trump. That is the number one, two through fifty-eighth priority.

Hate to break it to you, but Trumpists have google too.

All the horrible things about Biden are there. It's been reported on throughout the many years of Biden's career, just waiting to be picked up. And they will, whether or not your resident forum doom-sayer points them out or holds his tongue.

It's probably why, before now, his runs for president have ended in spectacular disaster. Strange, that in this time of unique crisis, the party settled on a candidate known to be weak.

If you think this is rough treatment, you're in for a bad time come general election season.