Biden for President?

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Delvo said:
The debate among Biden & Bernie supporters has never been about pragmatism versus purity or idealism or such. Both sides are being pragmatic. They're just being pragmatic on different scales. If all one looks at is one Presidential term at a time, there's no doubt that Trump has to go. But there will presumably be more Presidential terms, and more legislative terms, after that.

We've seen a long parade of bidens before (also known as clintons and kerrys and pelosis and schumers and crowleys and braziles and manchins and so on), not just running for President and losing but also running for other offices and sometimes winning, so then what they do once they're actually in office is on display. And even for those who win, what they do next is still just more losing in a different way, turning all American politics with bidens running one party into just a long ongoing continuous surrender to the other party. You might say a Trump win is letting 2 more Supreme Court members get appointed by the Republicans; well, not only those next 2 but also a lot more, during one Presidential term after another indefinitely, will result from reinforcing the bidens' death-grip on their own party. "Pragmatism", at least beyond a short four-year horizon, demands diminishing their power & influence within the party, not promoting it.
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Voting for the lesser of two eveils just means things end upgetting more evil.
 
wareyin said:
Your contention is that Democratic politicians make no moves to the left once in power? If so, that is utter nonsense. If your complaint is that they didn't wave a magic wand and enact the purest bestest left-wing UHC and free college and whatever else your goals are despite our system of government forcing them to work with the other party, it's also utter nonsense just of a different flavor.
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Do you think, over the last 40 years, that the US, economically, has shifted right?

You can make all the advances in minority rights and being 'woke' but the bottom line is that it's about the money. And the US has, in termsof taxation and economics, been moving to the right for the last 40 years.
 
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Suddenly said:
Also while at it they can maybe explain how trying to end virus countermeasures and run an economy where people are constantly going to be unable to work because of health issues won't be an abject disaster and likely worse than present conditions.

Not just people sick from the virus, but of other things as there wouldn't be a healthcare system because hospitals are overrun and more doctors are sick/dead from the virus. Not to mention the anxiety and fear people will have from being economically forced to put themselves in danger and the fallout from that.
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Exactly. My partner and I were discussing that going to urgent care or the ER during this crisis would be awful. But Trump and his Trumpanzees are encouraging people to go back to work and to church, to go ahead and risk their health for the good of the economy and the church. If they only risked their own lives, I'd say good on them, but the reality is that they risk so many other people by doing so as well.
 
thaiboxerken said:
This is a lie. Most progressive policies are very popular with the American people. Why do you lie?
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It's not a lie, it's an opinion, thanks for reinforcing the snowflake factor in accusing any opposing viewpoint to the leftist manifesto a lie. Anything else would potentially negate one's safespace.
 
rockysmith76 said:
It's not a lie, it's an opinion, thanks for reinforcing the snowflake factor in accusing any opposing viewpoint to the leftist manifesto a lie. Anything else would potentially negate one's safespace.
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You made a statement of fact, not of opinion. Maybe you need to learn the difference.
 
The Don said:
If it does, I wonder why Republican Presidents increase the deficit.



The right on the other hand cut taxes for the wealthy, increase corporate pork and military spending and explode the deficit without any plan.
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I was always taught that fiscal responsibility means not spending money you don't have. There are two ways to do this: don't spend as much, or get more money.

Neither party ever really worries about not spending money, so the only other option is to get more money. Raising taxes is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
 
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/maj...uch-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

"In a survey of 800 Americans nationwide, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, the CNBC survey finds majority support for five of six proposals that have been percolating in the national debate mostly, but not entirely, from the Democratic side. On some of the issues, the survey even found majority Republican support."
 
pgwenthold said:
I was always taught that fiscal responsibility means not spending money you don't have. There are two ways to do this: don't spend as much, or get more money.

Neither party ever really worries about not spending money, so the only other option is to get more money. Raising taxes is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
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not in a time when millions are unemployed due to Covid, that hurts the nonwealthy as well. Just another sad attempt at class warfare when a united front to get through a pandemic is more important.
 
thaiboxerken said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/maj...uch-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

"In a survey of 800 Americans nationwide, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, the CNBC survey finds majority support for five of six proposals that have been percolating in the national debate mostly, but not entirely, from the Democratic side. On some of the issues, the survey even found majority Republican support."
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800 out of 300 million is a majority? Good luck with that.
 
thaiboxerken said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/maj...uch-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html

"In a survey of 800 Americans nationwide, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, the CNBC survey finds majority support for five of six proposals that have been percolating in the national debate mostly, but not entirely, from the Democratic side. On some of the issues, the survey even found majority Republican support."
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I've done a lot of thinking and analyzing over the years. This crisis and the economic issues raised has helped me, for example, get to a place where I see some value in overhauling our employment laws. We need better protections for our workers. I support a higher MW and paid sick leave, within reason (which would include maternity leave) -I can't see forcing employers to pay for 8 weeks of leave. Paid childcare, I have a harder time with, I'd rather incentivize businesses to provide it with tax credits than direct payments.

Free college? Ooof . . . I don't think I'm on board with that. Loan forgiveness, maybe, for people who finish their degrees in certain fields the country needs. I support measures designed to lower the cost of going to college in the first place.

Medicare for all? No, I'm not on board with that. I might be on board with the right proposal for a Universal system, but not anything that looks like Medicare right now.

UBI. No. I am all for providing assistance in times of crisis like right now, but not just universally at all times. Overhauling employment law can go a long way towards correcting the problems a UBI is supposed to fix.

Is there a thread where all these "Lessons learned and things we should maybe be doing after the pandemic" ideas are being debated? If not, maybe I will start one -I think it's a conversation worth having.

Now, having said all that -is Joe Biden the guy who's fighting for all that? I don't think so, not from what I've seen. Bernie might have been closer, if a bit too far, and I think I would have voted for him even before this pandemic -if only as a "what the hell, it can't be worse than the Trump Admin" vote as well as to help my kids get the candidate they want.
 
rockysmith76 said:
I stated an opinion. Show me your diploma from psychic school, or well, yeah.....
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No, you really didn't.

Your statement was framed as factual. You can't back it up so you're backing yourself up. Well done for coming to your senses, but don't get all snippy because you could express yourself properly.
 
rockysmith76 said:
not in a time when millions are unemployed due to Covid, that hurts the nonwealthy as well. Just another sad attempt at class warfare when a united front to get through a pandemic is more important.
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Class warfare has been going on for 40 years. The side that are winning are th side that shouts 'class warfare' every time the other side tries to fight back.

My, but you're entertaining today.
 
3point14 said:
Class warfare has been going on for 40 years. The side that are winning are th side that shouts 'class warfare' every time the other side tries to fight back.

My, but you're entertaining today.
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Yep, Since Reagan, they've been taking more and more away from the working class and below and giving more and more to the wealthy.
 
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