Biden for President?

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In my opinion Biden does more than gaffes. Not malicious things but what could charitably called senior moments. Uncharitably called early signs of dementia.
 
Bob001 said:
Now that Joe Biden is being called the front-runner and "presumptive" Democratic nominee, it's time to ask what kind of candidate he will be against Trump.
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I think it's at least two weeks too early to make any presumptions about how the primary process will play out, but bascially Biden just needs to stay on message (preferably on teleprompter) pretty much of the time and constantly remind those of us who volunteered/voted for Obama that he's getting the band back together, in terms of both players and setlists.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
"Gaffes" is a dumb term, an attempt to equate honest mistakes and slips of the tongue without outright vile maliciousness and intentional factual wrongness.

"LOL sure Trump said all Mexicans were rapists and killers and had to be physically restrained from staring into the sun during an eclipse but silly ole' grandpa Joe said 'Squatternut Bosh' when he meant to say 'Butternut Squash' it's all the same!"
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Surely the term "gaffe" implies that something is a mistake, and therefore is doing the opposite of what you claim and not equating them with Trump's lies and inflammatory rhetoric?
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Surely the term "gaffe" implies that something is a mistake, and therefore is doing the opposite of what you claim and not equating them with Trump's lies and inflammatory rhetoric?
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On a technical dictionary definition level, yes.

As it is being used political, often not.
 
eeyore1954 said:
In my opinion Biden does more than gaffes. Not malicious things but what could charitably called senior moments. Uncharitably called early signs of dementia.
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Fortunately, Trump shows some of those signs too. It may matter in the primary but it won't matter in the general. This election is going to be all about turn out and who can get the rust belt working stiffs and soccer mom's to vote for them.

I think based on not much that Sanders has a shot at the rust belt. I think also not based on much that Bernie turns off the soccer moms nearly as much as Trump. I am much less certain of that.

I think Biden will be the nominee and I hope the Bernie Bros* don't stay home on account of it. Based on turnout in the primaries, they may not have turned out regardless.

*The enthusiastic youth voters who like Bernie.

Regarding "gaffes" I don't think it generally used to conflate deliberate potentially offensive things like Trump does so often. I've generally heard it applied to the sorts of things Biden and Bush do all the time.

The defense of trump's questionable statements is usually not to call them gaffes but to point out(generally correctly) that what he actually said was fairly incoherent. So, he might have meant X or Y and which one you think it was is usually dependent on what you think of Trump.


The spoiler is a bunch of things that Trump is often claimed to have said that aren't quite what he said even though what he actually said was pretty bad, its not as bad as is often claimed. Read or not. Its not really important but I wrote it all done before I decided it didn't really matter. Point is, Trump sucks, he especially sucks at communicating and using all the best words.
He didn't actually say all Mexicans are criminals and rapist or even that all of them coming to the US weren't, but its not unreasonable to think that's what he meant.
He didn't actually say NAZI's were fine people after Charlottesville. In context, he was talking about 3 groups of people, Nazi's/klansmen, other folks who like confederate statues, and folks protesting the first two groups. No, in context, it was still stupid to say what he did but he pretty clearly didn't mean to say racists were fine people.
He didn't actually say he had grabbed women by the pussy either. He claimed he had kissed them without asking and he could get away with it along with grabbing them by the pussy because he was a celebrity. Boorish and stupid but not an admission of grabbing women by the pussy. He also said he couldn't help himself around beautiful women, then the women he was referring to walked into the room and he clearly restrained himself. So, it was pretty much all empty gross bravado.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
On a technical dictionary definition level, yes.

As it is being used political, often not.
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The problem there is not in calling Joe's mistakes gaffes, but in calling Trump's racist comments and kissing Putin's ass gaffes. They are not, they are simply a direct reflection of what he is thinking.
 
Joe Biden should emulate Trump's approach to government to make it easier for Undecided to come to his side.

Step 1: pick his son Hunter as VP.
 
JoeMorgue said:
On a technical dictionary definition level, yes.

As it is being used political, often not.
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I think it is most often used the same way in political contexts. "Gaffe" has the connotation of an innocent mistake, or at most a revealing slip of the tongue.

Of course, for political purposes simple gaffes are often treated as serious statements by the opposing side. And there can often be legitimate agreement about whether or not a particular statement is a gaffe.

Examples:

Obama's "You can keep your insurance" - Not a gaffe
Obama's "I’ve now been in fifty …. seven states" - gaffe
 
Biden made some obvious gaffes recently and some comments that may or may not have been gaffes.

What's most relevant I think is the increase in the rate of gaffes and such. He seems to be on a worrying trajectory, especially for someone who may be just about to go through a Presidential election cycle.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
Biden made some obvious gaffes recently and some comments that may or may not have been gaffes.

What's most relevant I think is the increase in the rate of gaffes and such. He seems to be on a worrying trajectory, especially for someone who may be just about to go through a Presidential election cycle.
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Does it really matter though? Is anyone out there, who is considering voting for trump going to care* if Biden maybe a little demented? Is anyone out there who won't vote for Trump going to care if Biden is a little demented?

*I imagine they will pretend to care.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
"Gaffe" has the connotation of an innocent mistake, or at most a revealing slip of the tongue.
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My favorite sort of political gaffe is when the candidate accidentally reveals how they really see the world. Obama thought many of the people lined up to vote against him were fearfully clinging to guns and religion; Clinton believed many of the people lined up to vote against her were downright deplorable in terms of sexism, racism, etc.
 
d4m10n said:
My favorite sort of political gaffe is when the candidate accidentally reveals how they really see the world. Obama thought many of the people lined up to vote against him were fearfully clinging to guns and religion; Clinton believed many of the people lined up to vote against her were downright deplorable in terms of sexism, racism, etc.
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Were they wrong about that?
 
d4m10n said:
My favorite sort of political gaffe is when the candidate accidentally reveals how they really see the world. Obama thought many of the people lined up to vote against him were fearfully clinging to guns and religion; Clinton believed many of the people lined up to vote against her were downright deplorable in terms of sexism, racism, etc.
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Poor kids are as smart as white kids...
 
Trebuchet said:
Were they wrong about that?
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Nope, those claims were essentially true. Impolitic, perhaps, but not wrong.

Distracted1 said:
Poor kids are as smart as white kids...
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Also true.

Despite the fact that non-white kids in the U.S. will (on average) grow up with significantly fewer resources and more everyday insecurity than their European American peers, they have just as much raw potential.
 
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d4m10n said:
Nope, those claims were essentially true. Impolitic, perhaps, but not wrong.



Also true.

Despite the fact that non-white kids in the U.S. will (on average) grow up with significantly fewer resources and more everyday insecurity than their European American peers, they have just as much raw potential.
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How well do you think a candidate will do with the lower-income white voter when his gaffe has revealed that he does not believe a white person can be poor?
 
ahhell said:
Does it really matter though? Is anyone out there, who is considering voting for trump going to care* if Biden maybe a little demented? Is anyone out there who won't vote for Trump going to care if Biden is a little demented?

*I imagine they will pretend to care.
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Close to pretend. There are a group of voters that in the dark recesses of the soul want to vote for Trump but are honestly ashamed of it.

The narrative of Biden being corrupt or demented will be enough for them to create a false equivalence that lets them feel better about voting for Trump.

They will say and could probably pass a lie detector test that this will be what pushed them to Trump, but it was likely going to be something.

(This is what makes the current conventional wisdom about how to beat Trump maddening. The vast majority of these moderate Republicans that "really don't want to vote for Trump" are going to for some reason. Hoping to flip them is eating soup with a fork)
 
ahhell said:
Does it really matter though? Is anyone out there, who is considering voting for trump going to care* if Biden maybe a little demented? Is anyone out there who won't vote for Trump going to care if Biden is a little demented?

*I imagine they will pretend to care.
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No, to both, honestly.

Long ago we saw the polls showing Trump losing to a generic Democrat. Eager to leverage that information we are running the closest thing we can find to a "generic Democrat".

OK, I think, by just about everyone.
 
Biden needs to select a V.P. quickly.
I don't think he should even wait until he has the nomination officially secured.
His V.P. is going to have to be where the excitement comes from.

If he does not nominate one specifically, he should at least make the pledge that whomever it is it will be a woman. That, at least, takes a little of the buzz Trump might get with a surprise switch to Nikki Haley (or Tulsi Gabbard) during the run-up.
 
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