Cont: Biden for President? Pt 2

[Skeptic Ginger]

Trump's response earlier today: "MAGA love black people."

I don't think that is going to be a vote winning slogan.

 

[Segnosaur]

Agreed. And I think Klobuchar is out and maybe Harris. Abrams is looking good.

My main concern with Abrams is that she doesn't have a long history of high profile electoral success.

Yes, she served in her state's legislature, but she has never served at the federal level, and she lost the election for governor. (Granted it was an election in a rather backwards state, and the Republicans did crank up the dirty tricks, like voter suppression... Still, it limits her visibility and experience.)

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[Stacyhs]

My main concern with Abrams is that she doesn't have a long history of high profile electoral success.

Yes, she served in her state's legislature, but she has never served at the federal level, and she lost the election for governor. (Granted it was an election in a rather backwards state, and the Republicans did crank up the dirty tricks, like voter suppression... Still, it limits her visibility and experience.)

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Lack of ANY governing experience at any level didn't hurt Trump with voters. Abrams is brilliant. Hearing her being interviewed, she impressed me.

 

[Segnosaur]

Lack of ANY governing experience at any level didn't hurt Trump with voters. Abrams is brilliant. Hearing her being interviewed, she impressed me.

True, stubby Mcbonespurs won despite never having ever been elected.

But he did benefit from:
- a tv show that gave a false impression of a successful business man, and increased his national profile
- a favorable electoral college and Russian assistance

I think the suggestion that "just because trump did it it will work for the democrats" is a risky proposition. The trump/Republican and democratic voter bases are different.

(Note: I am not criticizing Abram's policies or abilities... Just commenting on how her particular history might affect her.)

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[Craig4]

True, stubby Mcbonespurs won despite never having ever been elected.

But he did benefit from:
- a tv show that gave a false impression of a successful business man, and increased his national profile
- a favorable electoral college and Russian assistance

I think the suggestion that "just because trump did it it will work for the democrats" is a risky proposition. The trump/Republican and democratic voter bases are different.

(Note: I am not criticizing Abram's policies or abilities... Just commenting on how her particular history might affect her.)

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You could overcome that by putting her front and center as leading an effort to reinvent policing in this country, something we clearly need to do. The advantage of her not being a governor or prosecutor is that she's never been a chief executive responsible for a police force. That means that no one over whom she had oversight has ever killed someone by kneeling on their neck.

 

[theprestige]

There's an expression that a DA could get a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwhich". It's absurdly easy to get an indictment from a grand jury for all suspects but the cops for some reason.

The routine no-billing from grand juries has been a long bone of contention. DA's kick the decision over to the grand jury and then phone in their argument resulting in a no-bill.

Klobuchar's record as DA was tough on petty crime, and lenient on police killings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amy-klobuchar-was-a-tough-on-crime-prosecutor-will-a-diverse-democratic-base-accept-her-record/2019/03/21/739e6984-4057-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

I'm aware of the ham sandwich meme. I was hoping you'd answer my questions.

 

[varwoche]

My main concern with Abrams is that she doesn't have a long history of high profile electoral success.

Yes, she served in her state's legislature, but she has never served at the federal level, and she lost the election for governor. (Granted it was an election in a rather backwards state, and the Republicans did crank up the dirty tricks, like voter suppression... Still, it limits her visibility and experience.)

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I like her a lot. But for these reasons, I'm betting on Val Demmings. Or is her LE background a tough sell?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I like her a lot. But for these reasons, I'm betting on Val Demmings. Or is her LE background a tough sell?

Her wikipedia page currently has a conservative editor "helpfully" adding links to all the abuse of force incidents during her time as Chief of Orlando PD. I wouldn't put money on her selection.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I'm aware of the ham sandwich meme. I was hoping you'd answer my questions.

Klobuchar could have decided to as vigorously prosecute criminal cops as she did other crimes, all without the use of a Grand Jury.

 

[Lurch]

Trump's response earlier today: "MAGA love black people."

I don't think that is going to be a vote winning slogan.

If the quote is accurate, then are we to parse it as, "Make America Great Again love black people?" Well, I guess we're to take it that MAGA is no longer a call to action, but instead is now the homogenized, corporeal conglomeration of the many millions of Drumpf's rabble. And that this blended basket of deplorables is sympatico with the non-MAGA people of color who are in opposition to the prime MAGAite. Yeah, makes sense.

 

[Bob001]

If the quote is accurate, then are we to parse it as, "Make America Great Again love black people?" Well, I guess we're to take it that MAGA is no longer a call to action, but instead is now the homogenized, corporeal conglomeration of the many millions of Drumpf's rabble. And that this blended basket of deplorables is sympatico with the non-MAGA people of color who are in opposition to the prime MAGAite. Yeah, makes sense.

It is accurate.

“MAGA is ‘Make America Great Again'” he repeated. “By the way, they love African-American people. They love black people. MAGA loves the black people. I heard that MAGA wanted to be there. A lot of MAGA was going there be there. I have no idea if that’s true or not but they love our country.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/05/ma...ing-to-incite-violence-with-maga-night-tweet/

It's pretty clear that Trump considers MAGA the shorthand description of the movement he leads. Kinda like Nazi or KKK.

 

[Bob001]

Agreed. And I think Klobuchar is out and maybe Harris. Abrams is looking good.

Not many Americans would think of Abrams -- with her limited accomplishments at this stage of her life -- as sitting in the White House. She is just not a national figure in the same sense that a governor or senator is. There are two Senate seats on the Georgia ballot this year; why isn't Abrams running for that? The only goal in 2020 is to beat Trump. Abrams can't help him do that in the way that Warren, Harris and others could, but she might cause potential Biden voters to stay home, particularly in the states that Biden most needs to win.

 

[Stacyhs]

I like her a lot. But for these reasons, I'm betting on Val Demmings. Or is her LE background a tough sell?

Right now, I think anyone with a history of law enforcement that includes connections to police brutality would be a hard sell to a lot of Democrats, especially African Americans.

 

[Stacyhs]

Not many Americans would think of Abrams -- with her limited accomplishments at this stage of her life -- as sitting in the White House. She is just not a national figure in the same sense that a governor or senator is. There are two Senate seats on the Georgia ballot this year; why isn't Abrams running for that? The only goal in 2020 is to beat Trump. Abrams can't help him do that in the way that Warren, Harris and others could, but she might cause potential Biden voters to stay home, particularly in the states that Biden most needs to win.

I disagree. Many VP picks have been people that weren't widely known outside their own state when selected as a running mate. Abrams is as well known, if not more so, than Val Demings. Frankly, I'd never heard of Demings until waroche mentioned her. I had to look her up. But I knew who Abrams was. This is largely due to all the national attention to the last Georgia governorship election. Abrams' record fighting gerrymandering and voter suppression in Georgia is impressive.

As for why she isn't running for a Senate seat, you'd have to ask her.

To claim that Abrams can't help win the elections the way 'Warren, Harris or others could' is just an opinion and not one agreed with by many. While I like Warren and think she would make a great VP, she is also needed in the Senate. Additionally, MA has a Rep. governor meaning that her Senate seat could be filled by a Republican. Since MA law requires a special election 140 to 160 days to elect a new senator, that means the appointed Republican senator would be in the Senate for several months. If the Dems are successful in narrowing the GOP Senate majority, one vote could be very important.

I just don't see Harris being the pick.

 

[varwoche]

If Harris and Demings are ruled out due to LE background, and Abrams is in play despite thin resume, then maybe Keisha Lance Bottoms, mayor of Atlanta, is also in play.

 

[Bob001]

....
While I like Warren and think she would make a great VP, she is also needed in the Senate. Additionally, MA has a Rep. governor meaning that her Senate seat could be filled by a Republican. Since MA law requires a special election 140 to 160 days to elect a new senator, that means the appointed Republican senator would be in the Senate for several months. If the Dems are successful in narrowing the GOP Senate majority, one vote could be very important.
...

I made exactly the same point above about the Republican Massachusetts governor. I continue to contend that a role in a minor part-time state legislature is not a qualification to sit at the top of the federal government. If government experience doesn't matter, there are probably hundreds of prominent university presidents and professors, public interest lawyers, financial or environmental policy wonks and others who deserve consideration. Susan Rice has never held any elective office, but she is better qualified to be VP than many of the other candidates, including Abrams.

I want any Democrat to beat Trump, and I support any VP nominee who will improve his chances.

 

[theprestige]

I disagree. Many VP picks have been people that weren't widely known outside their own state when selected as a running mate. Abrams is as well known, if not more so, than Val Demings. Frankly, I'd never heard of Demings until waroche mentioned her. I had to look her up. But I knew who Abrams was. This is largely due to all the national attention to the last Georgia governorship election. Abrams' record fighting gerrymandering and voter suppression in Georgia is impressive.

As for why she isn't running for a Senate seat, you'd have to ask her.

To claim that Abrams can't help win the elections the way 'Warren, Harris or others could' is just an opinion and not one agreed with by many. While I like Warren and think she would make a great VP, she is also needed in the Senate. Additionally, MA has a Rep. governor meaning that her Senate seat could be filled by a Republican. Since MA law requires a special election 140 to 160 days to elect a new senator, that means the appointed Republican senator would be in the Senate for several months. If the Dems are successful in narrowing the GOP Senate majority, one vote could be very important.

I just don't see Harris being the pick.

Heh. I didn't hear about Abrams until her name came up as a possible Biden VP. And apparently that came about because she broke with convention to openly campaign for the pick.

 

[theprestige]

I made exactly the same point above about the Republican Massachusetts governor. I continue to contend that a role in a minor part-time state legislature is not a qualification to sit at the top of the federal government. If government experience doesn't matter, there are probably hundreds of prominent university presidents and professors, public interest lawyers, financial or environmental policy wonks and others who deserve consideration.

I see the presidency as being too broadly scoped, and at the same time far too specialized, for anyone to be properly qualified. That said, some are bound to do a better job than others.

I think the only thing that really disqualifies the other professionals you listed is their obvious lack of interest in pursuing such a career.

And while their specialties would qualify them to better handle certain narrow questions that arise when presidenting, those specialties would not actually equip them to come up with answers that do a good job of balancing all the broader concerns a president must consider. Probably the closest thing would be a state governor, the CEO of a large multinational, or a former Cabinet member. The ideal career path would probably be: CEO/Governor to Governor/CEO to Cabinet to President. But even that would be pretty freaking far from ideal, probably.

Which leads me back to the conclusion that the ideal president is simply the president who gets elected. Keeping in mind that the point of democracy is not to have good outcomes. It's to give the governed a say in their government. If they want to say stupid stuff, and democracy lets them, then democracy has succeeded in its goal. Installing a qualified unicorn over the protests of the electorate would be a failure of democracy.

 

[Stacyhs]

I made exactly the same point above about the Republican Massachusetts governor. I continue to contend that a role in a minor part-time state legislature is not a qualification to sit at the top of the federal government. If government experience doesn't matter, there are probably hundreds of prominent university presidents and professors, public interest lawyers, financial or environmental policy wonks and others who deserve consideration. Susan Rice has never held any elective office, but she is better qualified to be VP than many of the other candidates, including Abrams.

I want any Democrat to beat Trump, and I support any VP nominee who will improve his chances.

Wait. Are you saying the Georgia House of Representatives is "a minor part-time state legislature"? In what way is it either?

Abrams was a state rep. for 10 years and was also the minority leader from 2011 to 2017. I'd call that government experience. It's not federal but it is government experience.

 

[Tero]

Minnesota: Trump vs. Biden
5/18 - 5/20 800 RV 3.5 49 Biden 44 Trump...Biden +5
not really a big margin
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mn/minnesota_trump_vs_biden-6966.html

Hillary just barely won Minnesota