Bicyclist assaults NYPD officer

[jimbob]

Maybe I should have added that stopping to pick up the said rocks or carry them would also be a right pain.

I am basing this on my experience of roads in the UK, which tend to be fairly rock free.

 

[jiggeryqua]

The point of Critical Mass is to promote cycling. Yes, some motorists are going to get annoyed. Some motorists also seem to think that they own the road, at the expense of all other traffic. It's hardly convenient for a cyclist to have to steer around the mobs of cars jamming up the roads all the time, but I'm supposed to be upset by a once-a-month bike rally that inconveniences motorists a teensy bit? Hardly.

You're missing the point - cars are better than bicycles (therefore drivers are better than cyclists):

1) They are more complicated, a later development, an improvement
2) They cost more, they require more acquisition, they are better trophies
3) and linking to 2, they'll get you laid more often

Cyclists, know your place!

[/sarcasm]

 

[davefoc]

He has been sentenced:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/201...ical_mass_cyclist_to_the_ground_gets_no_.html

For me, this was the most disappointing outcome of a trial since the OJ Simpson trial.

This was a serious transgression against the citizens of New York. Pogan lied in a way that would likely have led to the conviction of an innocent individual.

Apparently:

The judge was swayed by some 180 letters in support of Pogan, detailing his long history of public service.

​

Huh? Who is this judge? Did he miss the part, where his job is to put people in jail who commit crimes to dissuade other people from doing similar crimes? Out of everybody connected with this case, this judge is easily the most disgusting. Why isn't his name being reported? What the hell is going on in New York, where stone cold proof of an effort to frame an innocent individual by a police officer results in a no punishment sentence?

This sentence is a direct assault on the rule of law and the maintenance of a civil society. If there was justice, the judge would go to jail in place of Pogan.

 

[applecorped]

from the link:

"Patrick Pogan sighed and his family sobbed Wednesday when a judge told him that there'll be no punishment - not even community service - for the July 2008 confrontation with one of hundreds of bicycle rights activists in Times Square.

"The defendant doesn't need any further supervision by the court and the verdict is conditional discharge, period," said Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Maxwell Wiley."

​

 

[ZirconBlue]

Disgusting.

 

[geni]

This sentence is a direct assault on the rule of law and the maintenance of a civil society. If there was justice, the judge would go to jail in place of Pogan.

Well there's no risk of this individual former officer doing it again so you don't need to worry about reoffending.

So that leaves the question of the impact on the wider police service. Since being found out will already cost you your job amoung other things it is unlikely that any halfway reasonable sentence would have a wider deterent effect.

 

[Modified]

Well there's no risk of this individual former officer doing it again so you don't need to worry about reoffending.

So that leaves the question of the impact on the wider police service. Since being found out will already cost you your job amoung other things it is unlikely that any halfway reasonable sentence would have a wider deterent effect.

In this case he falsified the report, probably to avoid losing his job. The punishment for that was losing his job. That is zero deterrent. If the punishment was commonly a year in jail, he might have taken his chances and told the truth.

 

[Alt+F4]

In this case he falsified the report, probably to avoid losing his job. The punishment for that was losing his job. That is zero deterrent. If the punishment was commonly a year in jail, he might have taken his chances and told the truth.

I think he resigned, but he would have been fired anyway. He lost his job as a police officer, he has a felony conviction which is going to hurt him in the job market for the rest of his life and the guy he pushed got a $65,000 settlement from the city. I think justice was served. As a New York City taxpayer, I see no reason for jail time.

 

[jimbob]

I subscribe to the view that public servants need to be held to higher standards than other citizens, with any punishment for wrongdoing also reflecting the severity of the abuse of their public office.

False imprisonment is one thing, causing the state to imprison someone falsely due to abuse of your position as a servant of the state is an additional wrong in my opinion.

 

[groupthinker]

I see nothing wrong with what the cop did. Critical Mass should be a considered a terrorist organization so hardworking cops don't get put on the butcher block for nonsense like this.

 

[Ian Osborne]

I see nothing wrong with what the cop did. Critical Mass should be a considered a terrorist organization so hardworking cops don't get put on the butcher block for nonsense like this.

If you're so keen on police states, where the authorities can get away with random assaults on the public and perjuring themselves in police reports, and where anyone the government doesn't like is classified as a terrorist and deprived of their civil rights, can I suggest you move to one? There are plenty around.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I see nothing wrong with what the cop did.

The law however does. The law which the officer has sworn to uphold.

Critical Mass should be a considered a terrorist organization so hardworking cops don't get put on the butcher block for nonsense like this.

Even if Critical Mass had been declared a terrorist organization the actions of the officer would still have been illegal. That and I would oppose such abuse of the designation of an organization as terrorist.

 

[groupthinker]

The law however does. The law which the officer has sworn to uphold.
Even if Critical Mass had been declared a terrorist organization the actions of the officer would still have been illegal. That and I would oppose such abuse of the designation of an organization as terrorist.

I don't know much about the Patriot Act or the laws on dealing with terrorists but I'm pretty sure if "Critical Mass" was declared a terrorist organization the officer would not have been punished.

 

[groupthinker]

If you're so keen on police states, where the authorities can get away with random assaults on the public and perjuring themselves in police reports, and where anyone the government doesn't like is classified as a terrorist and deprived of their civil rights, can I suggest you move to one? There are plenty around.

Can you say over-reaction? Calm down hippie it's okay.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Assualting terrorists is still illegal within the United States. There is a huge amount of legislative law and case law dealing with when physical force is acceptable to use and what procedures must be attempted before escalating to physical force. Neither the Patriot Act or other recent laws dealing with the apprehension of terrorists have invalidated the excessive force laws and procedures. If Critical Mass was declared a terrorist organization the police officer would have been expected to attempt a non-violent arrest before attempting violence.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Can you say over-reaction? Calm down hippie it's okay.

You talk about declaring an annoying protest group a terrorist organisation, and argue that it's okay for a police officer to assault one of its members at random, and you accuse me of over-reaction?

 

[fuelair]

You talk about declaring an annoying protest group a terrorist organisation, and argue that it's okay for a police officer to assault one of its members at random, and you accuse me of over-reaction?

I will say this - as has happened with other protests that block traffic/public movement - if I am ever blocked due to CM, you will find me supporting and pushing every bike control law they come up with and suggesting ones if they do not.. I have no problem with bikes and bikers, but courtesy includes slower moving vehicles keeping out of the way of faster moving vehicles. It promotes safety in more ways than the biking public may think.

Oh, and as to the group that was mentioned purposely blocking an intersection around page four - had any of them been hit by the garbage truck noted on P. 5 (as a possibility) I would have nominated them/looked for them as a Darwin award winner. To quote a wonderful source (if you know him/it HONK!!) "The roads must roll!"

 

[valis]

I think some of the negative reactions to Critical Mass show a sickness in our culture. We've got this crazy entitlement thing going on which makes people think that being inconvenienced or slowed down in any way means they are justified to react in any way they see fit. People need to learn to relax and calm down, especially when they are driving.


According to Wikipedia, the Chicago cops just ride along with the cyclists and help direct traffic, which is the sane and reasonable thing to do.

Because Critical Mass takes place without an official route or sanction, participants in some cities have sometimes practiced a tactic known as "corking" in order to maintain the cohesion of the group. This tactic consists of a few riders blocking traffic from side roads so that the mass can freely proceed through red lights without interruption. Corking allows the mass to engage in a variety of activities, such as forming a cyclone, lifting their bikes in a tradition known as a "Bike Lift" (in Chicago this is referred to as a Chicago hold-up), or to perform a "die-in" where riders lie on the ground with their bikes to symbolise cyclist deaths and injuries caused by automobiles, very popular in Montreal. The 'Corks' sometimes take advantage of their time corking to distribute flyers.

Critics argue that the practice of corking roads in order to pass through red lights as a group is contrary to Critical Mass' claim that "we are traffic", since ordinary traffic (including bicycle traffic) does not usually have the right to go through intersections once the traffic signal has changed to red. Corking has sometimes led to hostility between motorists and riders, even erupting into violence and arrests of motorists and cyclists alike during Critical Mass rides.[19]

If the above is true then Critical Mass are the ones with the sense of entitlement. I don't think it is unreasonable to feel entitled to use the road that you pay for in a lawful manner. I do feel it is unreasonable to feel you can ignore traffic laws to the detriment of everyone else because you feel you have a righteous cause.

I wonder how people would feel if this were Jehovah's Witnesses stopping traffic because they felt compelled to hand out copies of The Watchtower?

 

[Taarkin]

I wonder how people would feel if this were Jehovah's Witnesses stopping traffic because they felt compelled to hand out copies of The Watchtower?

I would feel that they shouldn't be physically assaulted for no reason by a policeman who lies about his unprovoked assault.

 

[Ian Osborne]

I will say this - as has happened with other protests that block traffic/public movement - if I am ever blocked due to CM, you will find me supporting and pushing every bike control law they come up with and suggesting ones if they do not.. I have no problem with bikes and bikers, but courtesy includes slower moving vehicles keeping out of the way of faster moving vehicles. It promotes safety in more ways than the biking public may think.

I'm inclined to agree; that's certainly how I cycle. But you really should try getting around on a bike for a week. When you've been cut up even though you had the right of way, had some idiot driving on your back wheel even though you're cycling perfectly legally and been abused by drivers who think they own the road, you'd have a little more sympathy for Critical Mass.