Paradox wrote:
his brings up an important question, IMO. Do you believe certain children are genetically predisposed to being 'naughty'?
I think all humans are born selfish.
Loki wrote:
My daughter has done this, and I can assure you that (a) CP was not needed and (b) the lesson was learned (by her) that she loses far more than she gains through such behaviour.
If you are blessed with a daughter where CP is not needed to make her obey, that is great.
actually, it is a result of competent parenting.... And it is not CP, it is beating
There are many children who will defy a parent and there will be no negotiation or alternative method that will make them give in. (Of course, bribing is not an alternative)
So, if defiance happens, what do you do?
you parent, moron. 5 minutes alone for a 4 year old is an eternity. loss of a toy (for 10 minutes) is an eternity of loss. So, when you are in doubt, as you clearly are, you get violent. Excellent, see you on the news sometime
Ed wrote:
My child just called mt a "poopyhead" cuz I told him to put my chess set back on the board. Shall I beat him? (inciidentially, he did it, properly, with no beating)
With your mouth, I would never let you near my daughter.
ummmm.......WTF????? Was this an issue? Frankly, I'd rather my kids hear an occasional vulgarity than be exposed to your cold blooded, violent, incompentant, bible based, medieval notions of "child rearing". Least I would never hit her
So, if you doesn't put the chess set back?
he does not get to play chess with me. my children are more concerned with the withholding of intellectual stimulation than with physical violence. A good thing, I believe.
If he ever curses at you, I'm sure you wont mind at all.
I would, perhaps. It depends upon the situation. We are distingushing between a curse and a vulgarity here, no?
hs4 wrote:
What if the "definence" is based on a child's honest belief that the parent is mistaken, or the parent is in fact mistaken?
Who is the parent and who is the child?
In your case, I wonder. You seem to need to be correct and to beat when confronted. Sometimes the parent admits to a mistake. You get respect that way. Honesty is a Christian virtue too, no? You might also find out what is going on in their little minds, that gets respect too. That is also honesty and respect.
hs4 wrote:
How does a parent, using CP, distinguish? When is defience real, vs. petty and giving? When is defience real, vs. an honest belief in an injustice? Are parents who practice CP incapable of an act of injustice? When is an "act of defience" a convient excuse for shutting down an argument that the parent perfers not to deal with rationally and calmly and without hitting?
1) Criteria
2) Defiance is an act of willful disobedience where a child challenges you (the child sets up a winner takes all approach)
again, this is parenting. if you find yourself in a "winner takes all" situation with a child, you are an idiot. have you never negotiated? Guess not. Before you jump on this, and perhaps spank me, let me point out that negotiation does not mean giving in, necessarily. It does mean listening and explaining, rationally.
3) No
4) In the relationship between a parent an a child, the last word is of the parent.
undeniably. But....you seem to wish to be correct and dominate. That seems to be what you are inculcating. Just a thought.
hs4 wrote:
Can a parent really loose their self-respect if a 4 year-old defies them? How about ignoring the 4 year-old rather than beating them?
There are consequenses of letting the child win. And they have nothing to do witht the silly notion that parents get a kick out of bossing children around.
you pick your fights. sometimes you give in, sometimes not. and this is less an issue of bossing children around than it is of domination.
hs4 wrote:
Just looking for clarification on how a 4 year old can be so defient as to require that they be hit....
All posters here have perfect children, it seems. 4 year olds can be defiant to the point of a win or loose situation.
no children are perfect. a competent, rational, intellegent parent does not have to resort to brutality
hs4 wrote:
Do you think Jesus, while he walked among us as a "man" ever had cause to hit a child?
No, He was never a parent.
wouldn't touch that one with a rod
Mossy wrote:
If there are specific rules that you follow, that is good - please present them, but to suggest that these are the Christian guidelines puts me in a position where I'll need to point out the error/hypocrisy/cruelty in the application of those guidelines (and again, this might not apply to you), and then you'll be offended at my accusation and in turn ignore me.
I don't see why there should be any confusion. When I say Christian guidelines, I mean what is taught to Christian parents by Christian institutions. These guidelines are for the most part homogenous.
wait, christian institutions teach parents to beat their kids? might there be a reference to any of this? Is this a weird sect thing like where that chick drowned her kids to "save" them? Is this idea mainstream? sounds very odd
I don't even want to bother with your article because it is a non-issue. If a muslim were to say her views of peace are according to Islam guidelines, I wouldn't cite the WTC attack, to refute her. ( I can't talk for you, because honestly I'm not even sure you wouldn't)
hs4 wrote:
Christian sited defience, but what is the standard and what is the proof that justifies the claim that the child has been defient?
Defiance is to attitude were a child says in no uncertain terms, you will not make me obey. He will prevail and you will loose this battle.
maybe, maybe not. is it that important to your ego to always prevail? now, when it is a danger:
kid: I am four and I an filleting this fish with this very sharp knife
Parent: like hell. give me that knife this instant
K: no, look a perfect fillet
P: Nevermind
OR:
K:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Bigfig, methinks)
P
Taking knife away) To your room, now, no Smurfs (or whatever crap they watch)
Parent picks up recalcitrant kid, escorts said kid to room, plants kid in bead and leaves. Done.
PS. Wise parent teaches kid next day how to fillet a fish on his own terms.
Nary a beating. Parent makes point, gets cheap kitchen help to boot.
Mossy wrote:
If there is a universal christian guideline that explains this, I've never heard of it - and the fact is, most christians haven't either (because they certainly don't all agree with each other).
The Christian literature on parenting is extensive, most Christians parents are avid readers and particularly of this material. Believe me, there are general guidelines.
OK
LTP wrote:
Christian, how old are your kids?
I have a 4 year old daughter.
Ah, so you beat a four year old girl when she defies you. Got it. Because you cannot parent, you beat a four year old girl. That is loutish.
LTP wrote:
If he's naughty, or defiant, I stand him in the corner of the room and tell him he can come back and play when he finds his nice manners again. The exclusion is painful for him and he usually says sorry within 2 minutes.
Timeouts are appropriate for any child below three. And this is very good example why. You can actually pick (take) him up and put him in the corner.
absolute nonsense. i shot my 15 year old up to her room the other day for some transgression. She listens cuz she respects me, maybe cuz I never hit her.
A 5 year old can kick you, slap you, spit on you, punch you, etc.
goodness, how is it there in that trailor park? So, you physically attack a child and then they give it back and you are pissed so you beat them up some more? Where did this "hypothetical" 5 year old learn that violence is appropriate? From you, perhaps?
LTP wrote:
I tapped the 3yr old on the hand once for running into the road (literally, with 2 fingers) and he's never done it again.
You CP him. The important principle you used here was that he understood there are certain limits that cannot be crossed. At that time he probably didn't understand why, he understood the limit. The why will come later.
This another perfect example of correct parenting. There is no explaining or negotiation here, I'm not interested if you want to understand the order, the order is strict and absolute, you will not cross the street alone.
If anyone has kids that are not defiant ever, fine, CP is not needed.
This is the same as using nuclear weapons, the whole point of having them is not to use them, it is a tool of deterrence.
But, CP must be understood by the child no uncertain terms that will be used if defiance is encountered.
you seem very hung up on defiance. So, if your perceived position is threatened you will strike out to preserve it. You might try talking. And, you know, you have that position and a 4 year old cannot take what you will not give.
Do you really beat a 4 year old girl. Seems bruteish to me. And you don't like my language. What a laugh. I, at least, never beat a child
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