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Berning down the house!

Gotta love how the reason we need to go for another corporatist insider-machine candidate like Hillary is because the Republicans would be mean to an actual lefty, which must mean the corporatist insider-machine type is immune to that... but the reason Hillary lost is because the Republicans were mean to her...
 
Delvo said:
Gotta love how the reason we need to go for another corporatist insider-machine candidate like Hillary is because the Republicans would be mean to an actual lefty, which must mean the corporatist insider-machine type is immune to that... but the reason Hillary lost is because the Republicans were mean to her...
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USAian politics are so weird. :D
 
Segnosaur said:
Ummm... why?

I gave a reason why I think Sanders should stay out... he might cause some divisions in the electorate that will be a little harder for the Democrats to get through. So what's the supposed benefit for Trump if Sanders stays in the race?
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If Sanders stays in the race, he can beat Trump. He's the Democrats' best candidate.

If you think there's a better one, I'd like to hear a case for it. I don't see any of the other candidates having the popularity that Sanders has.
 
Axiom_Blade said:
If Sanders stays in the race, he can beat Trump. He's the Democrats' best candidate.

If you think there's a better one, I'd like to hear a case for it. I don't see any of the other candidates having the popularity that Sanders has.
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Not only is he the most popular politician in America:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...itician-poll-trump-favorability-a7913306.html

Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America, poll finds
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...but he would have won against Trump last time, too:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/05/10/Would-Democrats-Be-Better-Sanders-vs-Trump

The picture is brighter for Sanders in the make-or-break state of Ohio. Clinton loses to Trump, 43 percent to 39 percent, while Sanders wins a hypothetical matchup, 43 percent to 41 percent.
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The new poll shows Clinton in a dead heat with Trump in Pennsylvania, leading him by just one point, 43 percent to 42 percent. Sanders, meanwhile, leads the billionaire 47 percent to 41 percent.
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The snapshot comes the same day a NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll found that while Clinton beats Trump in the general election, 49 percent to 44 percent, Sanders wipes the floor with him, winning 53 percent to 40 percent.
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The argument the centrists give is that "opposition research" will hurt him, and the Republicans will paint him as a communist, but the data indicates that instead of making Sanders look bad, screaming about socialism while pointing at him just makes socialism more popular.

Really, I think some of the centrists would rather just lose than shift left, and other are caught in an ideological echo chamber where "left-wingers can't win, only centrists can win" is considered "just common sense".
 
Venom said:
Sanders is the Democrats' best candidate.

The Democratic Party does not quite realize that yet either.
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The donor class does not want it to be true, because he wants to tax them. The party "establishment" spends a lot of time with the donors, and often adopts their ideas, beliefs, and attitudes.
 
Axiom_Blade said:
If Sanders stays in the race, he can beat Trump. He's the Democrats' best candidate.

If you think there's a better one, I'd like to hear a case for it. I don't see any of the other candidates having the popularity that Sanders has.
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I agree that Sanders can trade verbal punches with Trump, and land some meat-smackers. Because Trump is very easy to hit, and all his presidential bungles have made him even easier to hit.

But Trump will just stumble back to his corner (his next near-nazi rally), and tell his nazis he won, which they will already think he did.

The problem is, you can't physically knock anyone out with words. So Trump can just pretend none of them hit him, and all his followers will totally buy into that. Because it's easy to pretend words didn't actually hit you.

So Trump gets the near-nazi 40%, no matter how badly he is beaten in debate. Because political debates aren't even real debates, because the voters don't know nuthin about real debate, and don't really give a rat's ass about facts any more.

Which means his opponent must be someone who will pull all the Democrat vote plus most of the independent vote, to avoid another electoral college debacle.

Right now, if I had to bet on someone being able to do that, I'd bet on Kamala Harris. She has a way of making it seem like she's on the attack when she's verbally sparring with someone. She has a way of making an opponent nervous with her steady cold drizzle of questions, even if the questions are essentially harmless. That might make some of the stupid voters think she's winning the debate. Which is actually easy to do against Trump. It's just that his core supporters don't notice.

And that's why I no longer believe in American democracy. What we have here is a loose cannon with a big nuclear arsenal that a con man with enough money, an effective line of crap, and maybe some help from Russia and Wikileaks can seize control of. And all he has to do to pick up the line of crap he needs is listen to the Fox News opinionizers. And he'll automatically pick the Russian and Wikileaks support if he looks like he can do some damage to the U.S. and/or Western democracy in general.

In other words, long story short, you people have a bad problem. All of you. Not just the Americans.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul, kinda of Ralph Nader, (arguably) Bat Buchanan, hell Ross Perot was almost like a weird, proto-version of it.

And the idea that Bernie Sanders lost the election for Clinton is laughable. He came in behind Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, and Darrel Castle and as always everyone was running a distant second to perennial write in favorite "Did Note Vote" who has held every elected office in America since forever.
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C'mon JoeMorgue. Ron Paul and Nader are nowhere near the same tier as Sanders. Bernie Sanders managed to reach approval ratings significantly higher than either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton shortly after 2017.

Now that doesn't mean the ones who approved will necessarily vote for him, but it does put him on a mainstream level of appeal.
 
Axiom_Blade said:
If Sanders stays in the race, he can beat Trump. He's the Democrats' best candidate.

If you think there's a better one, I'd like to hear a case for it. I don't see any of the other candidates having the popularity that Sanders has.
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The election is more than a year away. Kind of silly to make such a statement now.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Well, she has a lot of advantages over Bernie. A woman, half Samoan, young, beautiful, charismatic, strong-willed, at least as progressive as Bernie, an active soldier with actual anti-war politics (contrary to Bernie's "muh Maduro bad" gate-keeping).

I can't wait to see her react at a debate to some nitwit calling her an "Assad apologist" with telling "the nation" about what she actually found in Syria.

She would so wipe the floor with Trump it wouldn't even be funny anymore. But of course her enemies are in her own party, and good ol' Bernie just made himself practically one of them.
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:rolleyes:
Yeah calling out bad behavior or checking your enemies verbally really beats that war drum, CE.
 
I think Bernie could be a good bet. People are enthusiastic for him in ways similar to how they were enthusiastic for Obama and in complete contrast to the way in which people were prepared to put up with the very unlovable Hillary Clinton.
 
angrysoba said:
I think Bernie could be a good bet. People are enthusiastic for him in ways similar to how they were enthusiastic for Obama and in complete contrast to the way in which people were prepared to put up with the very unlovable Hillary Clinton.
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My impression is that he has a relatively small group of very enthusiastic supporters, I'm not sure how well that will translate to the primary. On the other hand, Dems are fired up by Trump, it almost doesn't matter who gets through the primary.
 
Lambchops said:
Funny how so many of the so called "progressive" USAians on this site are so oppsosed to an actual progressive candidate.
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Whereas I think it's "funny" how Europeans don't quite grasp the two party system and the implications thereof.
 
Venom said:
Sanders is the Democrats' best candidate.
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Is he, though? He has some name recognition a nice support on paper, but I'm not sure that the new, energetic generation isn't more potent.

kellyb said:
...but he would have won against Trump last time, too:
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Yeah, polls also said Clinton was more likely to win, but she didn't. I see no reason to believe that Sanders would've.
 
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