Berman's "Terror and Liberalism"

Skeptic

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Excellent Review here .
Read the whole thing first. Then, read Breman's book.

Then think.

Exerpts:

(The book's) central point is that Islamism and Baathism are continuations of Nazism and communism, not only in their fine points - founders of the Muslim Brotherhood and Baath Party were admirers of Hitler and Franco - but in their fundamentals. Once again we had the promise of earthly paradise, but now the paradise wouldn't be the paradise of unexploited labour or the paradise of an Aryan Europe, but the paradise of the early days of the prophet or a reunified Arab nation, pure and free. Once again there were great leaders who were semi-divine as they led the faithful into cosmic struggles. And once again their programmes were insane."

And the key point:

"Leon Blum, the leader of (the French Socialist) party (in the 1930s), knew that the Nazis had to be fought. But a large faction, supported by the teachers' unions and many left-wing intellectuals, was horrified by the prospect of a conflict which could exceed even the carnage of the First World War.

If they had looked the Nazis in the face, they would have realized that war was inevitable. Rather than see clearly they allowed the best of motives to convince them that the German people hadn't fallen for an insane cult. Why would they? Wasn't it almost racist to believe that they were anything other than as rational and decent as the French?"

This is, really, the point. Out of a desire to believe in the essential goodness of man, the French left convinced itself that Hitler's thugs had a point: after all, wasn't Germany really humiliated in Versailles, for example? Weren't the reparations unfair? Wasn't that, after all, the "root cause" of Hitler?

Same thing here. Some people, out of a desire to believe that Islamism is not an unappeasable Fascistic death cult--since that will imply millions of people fell for a Fascistic death cult which we must fight--convince themselves that they are, if not as rational as us, at least can be sympathized with: after all, wasn't the Arab world humiliated by colonialism? Isn't support of democracy (or israel or women learning to read or... you name the unbearable insult du jour) a slap in the face of Muslim culture? Let's find the "root cause"--"it's all our fault"--and correct it--appease the Islamists--and everything will be hunky dory.

Historically, those on the left who "understood" Hitler's motives ended up as collaborators in Vichy. Let us hope the current crop of deeply understanding, root-cause-finding, anti-anti-Islamists don't end up as ministers in the local dhimmi government the new rulers allow the infidels to keep for a while.
 
Skeptic said:
Excellent Review here .
Read the whole thing first. Then, read Breman's book.

Then think.

Exerpts:



And the key point:



This is, really, the point. Out of a desire to believe in the essential goodness of man, the French left convinced itself that Hitler's thugs had a point: after all, wasn't Germany really humiliated in Versailles, for example? Weren't the reparations unfair? Wasn't that, after all, the "root cause" of Hitler?

Same thing here. Some people, out of a desire to believe that Islamism is not an unappeasable Fascistic death cult--since that will imply millions of people fell for a Fascistic death cult which we must fight--convince themselves that they are, if not as rational as us, at least can be sympathized with: after all, wasn't the Arab world humiliated by colonialism? Isn't support of democracy (or israel or women learning to read or... you name the unbearable insult du jour) a slap in the face of Muslim culture? Let's find the "root cause"--"it's all our fault"--and correct it--appease the Islamists--and everything will be hunky dory.

Historically, those on the left who "understood" Hitler's motives ended up as collaborators in Vichy. Let us hope the current crop of deeply understanding, root-cause-finding, anti-anti-Islamists don't end up as ministers in the local dhimmi government the new rulers allow the infidels to keep for a while.

If any of your historical facts (beyond Germany was the aggressor and Nazis were bad) were correct then your post may have made some sense.

However the leaders of appeasement both in France and the UK were from the right of the political spectrum from Neville Chamberlain a Conservative MP to the right wing French press to French politicians such as Petain.

Indeed the left parties (such as the Communists, Socialist and Radical Parties) in France were so concerned about the threat from Nazi Germany that they buried their differences and formed the "Popular Front" in 1934 and the leader of this coalition party (Leon Blum) became the Prime Minister of France.

If was pressure from the right-wing in Europe that eventually lead to Daladier becoming Prime Minister of France and he then supported the policy of appeasement or neutrality.

In general terms it is more correct to state that the policy of appeasement or neutrality towards Germany was a policy of the right not the left.
 
Re: Re: Berman's "Terror and Liberalism"

Darat said:
If any of your historical facts (beyond Germany was the aggressor and Nazis were bad) were correct then your post may have made some sense.

However the leaders of appeasement both in France and the UK were from the right of the political spectrum from Neville Chamberlain a Conservative MP to the right wing French press to French politicians such as Petain.

Indeed the left parties (such as the Communists, Socialist and Radical Parties) in France were so concerned about the threat from Nazi Germany that they buried their differences and formed the "Popular Front" in 1934 and the leader of this coalition party (Leon Blum) became the Prime Minister of France.

If was pressure from the right-wing in Europe that eventually lead to Daladier becoming Prime Minister of France and he then supported the policy of appeasement or neutrality.

In general terms it is more correct to state that the policy of appeasement or neutrality towards Germany was a policy of the right not the left.

Not to mention that in Germany, it was the EVIL leftist progressives who fought Hitler tooth and nail - to the death, for many of them.
When Hitler pushed the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Presidential Empowerment Act, in US terms) through parliament, it was only the EVIL leftist progressive Social Democrats who voted against it, the Communist Party having been abolished (and its MPs sent to concentration camps) before that. EVERY SINGLE conservative supported Hitler, because their blind hatred for the left made them overlook - or ignore - Hitler´s state goals. I will refrain from pointing out the similarities between them and certain posters on this board.
 
"Leon Blum, the leader of (the French Socialist) party (in the 1930s), knew that the Nazis had to be fought.
So the leader of the Socialists wanted to fight the Nazis.

I wonder how he came to be their leader?

A minority, you point out, of the French left wing, you point out, wanted to stay out of WWII before it was declared.

Whereas Americans, God bless 'em, stayed out of WWII after it was declared, saying stuff like (I paraphrase) : "Democracy in Europe? Or Fascism in Europe? Who cares?" And: "Jew, Schmew."

Until...

Remember Pearl Harbour?
 
Chaos said:
Not to mention that in Germany, it was the EVIL leftist progressives who fought Hitler tooth and nail - to the death, for many of them.
When Hitler pushed the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Presidential Empowerment Act, in US terms) through parliament, it was only the EVIL leftist progressive Social Democrats who voted against it, the Communist Party having been abolished (and its MPs sent to concentration camps) before that. EVERY SINGLE conservative supported Hitler, because their blind hatred for the left made them overlook - or ignore - Hitler´s state goals.
Let's drag out that same old quotation from Pastor Niemoller:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
 
Dr Adequate said:
So the leader of the Socialists wanted to fight the Nazis.

I wonder how he came to be their leader?

A minority, you point out, of the French left wing, you point out, wanted to stay out of WWII before it was declared.

Whereas Americans, God bless 'em, stayed out of WWII after it was declared, saying stuff like (I paraphrase) : "Democracy in Europe? Or Fascism in Europe? Who cares?" And: "Jew, Schmew."

Until...

Remember Pearl Harbour?

You still don´t get it, do you?

It´s all the EVIL leftist progressives´ fault!

If they hadn´t existed, all those honest, decent conservative reactionaries wouldn´t have been so afraid of them, and they wouldn´t have voluntarily embraced fascism, anti-semitism, genocide and a world war in order to turn back the threat of social reforms. I mean, who wouldn´t become a Nazi and have several million people he doesn´t care about killed, to avoid the risk of maybe having some (*gasp*) Social Democrats in power in the country.

(BTW, yes , this was sarcastic; not directed at you, though)
 
Its at times like these that I miss "Jedi Knight" who's theory was that the Nazis were lefties because they were National socialists But then again he also thought that gravity did not affect really really small things and humans came from mars....ah, those were the days...:D
 
Does anyone else want to point out that that it was left-wing Englishmen who went as volunteers to fight for democracy against the Fascists in the Spanish Civil War?

And that the right-wing, if they went at all, fought on the other side?

OK then, I'll do it.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
...snip...

Chamberlain believed passionately in peace for many reasons (most of which are discussed here), thinking it his job as Britain's leader to maintain stability in Europe; like many people in Britain and elsewhere, he thought that the best way to deal with Germany's belligerence was to treat it with kindness and meet its demands. He also believed that the leaders of men are essentially rational beings, and that Hitler must necessarily be rational as well.

...snip..

Despite its immediate popularity the Munich Pact is now more commonly regarded as a cowardly desertion of allies. Chamberlain and Baldwin were labelled “guilty men” for the abject appeasement of Nazi Germany, their pursuit of appeasement even encouraging Hitler in his pursuit of European domination. But Chamberlain’s policy of exploring every avenue of peace united public opinion behind the need for the fight against Nazism. In addition, if Britain and France had to face down Germany, then 1939 was as opportune a moment as any: the advent of radar in 1937 was invaluable to eventual victory, while the war was launched before Germany was on an equal or superior military footing, something they would have achieved around 1942. The main failure of appeasement, however, was the total inability on the part of British and French policymakers to comprehend the nature and resolve of the Nazi threat.

Microsoft ® Encarta ® Premium Suite 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Damn those right-wingers and their leftist wishy-washy do-goodie views...
 
I won’t let logic or history get in the way of your need to equate liberals with Nazis. I’m not sure the novel you quote says that…the excerpt certainly doesn’t.

As far as the quote, I’m not sure lumping Islamists (I’m assuming Islamic extremists, here) and Baathists together is an honest move. These groups have very different motivations and power structures. Saddam’s Baathists may resemble the Nazis in their ruthless oppression and autocracy, but the religious-based Islamists with their desperate methods of attack hardly resemble the efficient and powerful Nazis or Communists of the Soviet Union.

What’s the connection? They’re all bad people who murder civilians? Yeah, okay.

The differences are huge, however. The Communists and the Nazis were resource-rich, powerful war machines whose leaders were not only dogmatic but brilliant tacticians. Saddam may have ruled his roost in his own nasty way, but he was hardly as ambitious as a Hitler or Stalin. And Osama? Come on…I know we play up this guy as a major threat, but the Islamists have hardly enough resources to make one attack every couple of years. When they do attack, it’s pretty insubstantial in the grand scheme of things. These guys aren’t toppling any governments or launching large-scale invasions any time soon.

But those liberals, now…those guys are the real threat!
 
Why don't we just ask Hitler what he really believed? Excerpts from Mein Kampf:


http://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/Hitler.shtml


I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal."2 (Hitler admired religious figures).

"I thank Heaven that a portion of the memories of those days still remains with me. Woods and meadows were the battlefields on which the 'conflicts' which exist everywhere in life were decided."3 (Hitler believed in Heaven).

"I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party ... The man and the movement seemed 'reactionary' in my eyes. My common sense of justice, however, forced me to change this judgment in proportion as I had occasion to become acquainted with the man and his work; and slowly my fair judgment turned to unconcealed admiration. Today, more than ever, I regard this man as the greatest German mayor of all times ... How many of my basic principles were upset by this change in my attitude toward the Christian Social movement! My views with regard to anti-Semitism thus succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all."4 (Hitler was inspired to become a radical anti-Semite by the Viennese Christian Social movement, whose attitudes are almost identical to the far-right American Christian fundamentalist movement today).

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."5 (Hitler obviously believed in a supreme being).

"Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election"6 (Hitler was fond of paraphrasing the Bible (Mark 10:25 in this case), and he does this many, many times elsewhere in the book).

"The root of the whole evil lay, particularly in Schonerer's opinion, in the fact that the directing body of the Catholic Church was not in Germany, and that for this very reason alone it was hostile to the interests of our nationality."7 (affirming that Hitler's only real problem with his childhood religion was the fact that its power base was not in Germany).

"I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction."8 (the "divine court of the eternal judge" seems a rather strange idea from anyone but a Judeo-Christian, since Pagan and Eastern religions generally lack any such divine judgemental entity, to say nothing of atheism)

"Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image."9

"Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children."10 (recalling World War I).

"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe."11 (it would appear that Hitler agreed with modern "intelligent design" creationists on the existence of a Creator).

"Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth ... Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world ..."12 (Jerry Falwell? Is that you?)

"But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God"13 (note that when he says "images of God", he refers to racially pure Aryans; this sentence comes in the context of a diatribe against racial intermixing).

"While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa in order to win new followers for their doctrine-- an activity which can boast but very modest success compared to the advance of the Mohammedan faith in particular-- right here in Europe they lose millions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to all religious life or simply so their own ways. The consequences, particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable."14 (Hitler agrees with George W. Bush that religion and morality are intertwined).

"Also noteworthy is the increasingly violent struggle against the dogmatic foundations of the various churches without which in this human world the practical existence of a religious faith is not conceivable ... The attack against dogmas as such, therefore, strongly resembles the struggle against the general legal foundations of a state, and, as the latter would end in a total anarchy of the state, the former would end in a worthless religious nihilism."15 (Hitler, trying to equate criticism of dogma to an assault on civilization)

"The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following: (a) Lowering of the level of the higher race; (b) Physical and intellectual regression and hence the beginning of a slowly but surely progressing sickness. To bring about such a development is, then, nothing else but to sin against the will of the eternal creator."16 (Hitler tries to define racial intermarriage as defiance of God's will, in exactly the way modern racists do, particularly in the southern American states; indeed, 40% of Alabama voters voted to keep interracial marriage illegal in November 2000)

"And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form. Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world."17 (Hitler believes in the afterlife, and he agrees with modern Christian fundamentalists about the importance of religious matters over material matters)

"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation."18 (Hitler demonstrates the common anti-Semitic view that Jesus was an Aryan rather than a Jew, and glowingly described him as "the great founder of the new doctrine".

"The Jew almost never marries a Christian woman; it is the Christian who marries a Jewess ... The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew ... With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people."19 (Hitler echoes Martin Luther's thoughts on Satan and Jewry; note that Hitler openly admired Luther, who wrote the virulent anti-Semitic screed "On Jews And Their Lies", and the infamous Kristallnacht was committed on Luther's birthday. Also note that he reiterates his hatred of intermarriage, but this time on religious rather than racial grounds. He tends to use the terms "German" and "Christian" interchangeably, which makes sense since he believed that Jesus was an Aryan and that true Christianity recognized the supremacy of the Aryan race).

"The future of a movement is conditioned by the fanaticism, yes, the intolerance, with which its adherents uphold it as the sole correct movement, and push it past other formations of a similar sort ... absolute intolerance also provides long growth ... The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in this world lies in the religious fanaticism and intolerance with which, fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its will against all others."20 (Hitler explains why he thinks religious intolerance is good, agreeing in principle with modern right-wing Christian fundamentalists who bemoan that if they are not intolerant of diversity, their belief system will have no future).

"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine."21

"The characteristic thing about these people is that they rave about old Germanic heroism, about dim prehistory, stone axes, spear and shield, but in reality are the greatest cowards that can be imagined. For the same people who brandish scholarly imitations of old German tin swords, and wear a dressed bearskin with bull's horns over their heads, preach for the present nothing but struggle with spiritual weapons, and run away as fast as they can from every Communist blackjack."22 (Hitler's own words demonstrate clearly that despite the common myth that the religion of Nazism was Nordic paganism, he actually regarded the Nordic pagan revival movement with nothing but contempt and derision, and Rosenberg was obviously charting his own path).

"A man who knows a thing, who is aware of a given danger, and sees the possibility of a remedy with his own eyes, has the duty and obligation, by God, not to work 'silently,' but to stand up before the whole public against the evil and for its cure."23 (isn't it interesting that you could easily imagine many of these quotes coming from the mouth of a modern-day preacher?)

"By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence. Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious-dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence."24 (Hitler equates religious dogma to ethics and morality, again just like modern right-wing intolerant Christians)

"Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise."25 (Hitler believes in the Genesis story of expulsion from Paradise).

"The task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission."26

"A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape."27 (Hitler believed that Aryans are holy and were created in God's "image", while other races evolved from apes, hence his hatred for racial mixing because it diluted God's image).

"It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world."28 (Hitler outlines some of his eugenics ideas; note that he described black humans as "Negroes" and white humans as "European humanity". Like the medieval European Christian conquerors, he obviously thought of black people as sub-human, and he often described Czechs as "sub-humans" as well)

"That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created?"29 (Hitler believes that racial mixing is an extension of "original sin")

"It doesn't dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."30 (again, he repeats his belief that Aryans come from God while other races evolved from apes).

"It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god"31 (just for fun, try asking people whether quotes like this came from Jerry Falwell or Adolf Hitler).

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."32 (again Hitler repeats his belief that the Aryan race was created by God, and that it would be a sin to dilute it through racial intermixing with inferior races which evolved naturally).

"If the German nation wants to end a state of affairs that threatens its extermination in Europe, it must not fall into the error of the pre-War period and make enemies of God and the world; it must recognize the most dangerous enemy and strike at him with all its concentrated power. And if this victory is obtained through sacrifices elsewhere, the coming generations of our people will not condemn us."33 (he seems to have learned the lessons of the Biblical Old Testament well: God punishes the people when they disobey him, so they must not make an enemy of God)

"For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: 'Lord, make us free!' is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!'"34

"we National Socialists must hold unflinchingly to our aim in foreign policy, namely to secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled on this earth. And this action is the only one which, before God and or German posterity, would make any sacrifice of blood seem justified: before God, since we have been put on this earth with the mission of eternal struggle for our daily bread..."35 (again, Hitler tries to justify his actions as the will of God, as countless Christians have done before him).

"And so he advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent..."36 (Hitler explaining that the German people must send the "heaven-stormer" back to Hell).

He sounds like a good, god-fearing, bible believing conservative, therefor, he must be a liberal. :rolleyes:
 
Skeptic said:
Excellent Review here .
Read the whole thing first. Then, read Breman's book.

Then think.

Exerpts:



And the key point:



This is, really, the point. Out of a desire to believe in the essential goodness of man, the French left convinced itself that Hitler's thugs had a point: after all, wasn't Germany really humiliated in Versailles, for example? Weren't the reparations unfair? Wasn't that, after all, the "root cause" of Hitler?

Same thing here. Some people, out of a desire to believe that Islamism is not an unappeasable Fascistic death cult--since that will imply millions of people fell for a Fascistic death cult which we must fight--convince themselves that they are, if not as rational as us, at least can be sympathized with: after all, wasn't the Arab world humiliated by colonialism? Isn't support of democracy (or israel or women learning to read or... you name the unbearable insult du jour) a slap in the face of Muslim culture? Let's find the "root cause"--"it's all our fault"--and correct it--appease the Islamists--and everything will be hunky dory.

Historically, those on the left who "understood" Hitler's motives ended up as collaborators in Vichy. Let us hope the current crop of deeply understanding, root-cause-finding, anti-anti-Islamists don't end up as ministers in the local dhimmi government the new rulers allow the infidels to keep for a while.


Perhaps there are similarities...but I don't think it has so much to do with right or left.

It has to do with the willingness to buy into a belief system and shut down any critical analysis.

An 'Us vs. Them, so let's throw away reason and operate on emotion' sort of thuggishness..even among 'intellectuals', and academics.

Much like some of the responses above.;)
 
"Skeptic":
"This is, really, the point. Out of a desire to believe in the essential goodness of man, the French left convinced itself that Hitler's thugs had a point..."

Wonder if the west believed in the essential good nature of Saddam when they supported him in the 80`s. They certainly thought he had a point, even after he gassed his own people. Maybe Rumsfeld would like to answer that.
 

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