Benazir Bhutto killed in suicide bombing attack

[Puppycow]

Islamists, probably, Al Qaeda, not necessarily. They are far from the only extremist group in the region.

OK, maybe not Al Qaeda per se, but at least their fellow travellers.

 

[KingMerv00]

In this case I don't think so. Musharraf himself is subject to attempts on his life. You have to stop and ask if he really has the means to arrange these attempts (this is the second attempt, and this time it succeeded) and keep it secret. And I don't really see how Musharraf is now better off than he was yesterday. Sure, she was a potential political rival, but now she's a martyr and who knows what sort of instability this might lead to.

That is a perfectly valid point but many politicians have risked martyrdom of their enemies before.

I'm not saying he is guilty but I'd say he is a good place to start looking. No?

 

[Damien Evans]

OK, maybe not Al Qaeda per se, but at least their fellow travellers.

I certainly think it's a very good area to start looking.


Lets see if anyone claims responsibility for it.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Granted.



As speculation goes, Musharraf is possible, but one of the most hated men in the entire world by Islamists being able to create a suicide attack?

Not likely, but what if he contracted a third party who was Islamic extremist or pretending to be and willing to sell his services? Now we have the courier. Then this third party could give money to the families of the suicide bombers as Saddam was doing to Palestinians.

 

[Garrette]

And I don't really see how Musharraf is now better off than he was yesterday. Sure, she was a potential political rival, but now she's a martyr and who knows what sort of instability this might lead to.

No, she isn't a martyr. Being an assassinated public figure does not equate to martyrdom, even when one is universally popular which Bhutto was not.

Those who achieve martyr status are exceedingly rare and rarer still in the Islamic world. Can you name any from the last fifty years?

 

[Garrette]

Not likely, but what if he contracted a third party who was Islamic extremist or pretending to be and willing to sell his services? Now we have the courier. Then this third party could give money to the families of the suicide bombers as Saddam was doing to Palestinians.

Ayup.

I'm not sure how much Musharraf benefits from this, but I think it naive to assume he could not arrange it to happen in the manner it did. And even if it can be objectively shown that he benefits nothing, that does not mean that he would think he would not benefit.

That said, I think it more likely it wasn't Musharraf than that it was.

 

[Puppycow]

That is a perfectly valid point but many politicians have risked martyrdom of their enemies before.

I'm not saying he is guilty but I'd say he is a good place to start looking. No?

No, I would start with the Islamists. Is there any precedent for a suicide bomber who is not an Islamist? Maybe if she was poisoned or something. But there have been two attempts on her life by suicide bomb, and I just don't think this is within Musharraf's capability to arrange this and keep it secret. I don't think he has a secret group of brainwashed suicide bombers at his disposal, ready to follow his orders, but I think Al Qaeda and perhaps other terrorist groups like Al Qaeda do.

 

[Drudgewire]

The European press has followed her a lot more than they have here in the US. I was in Barcelona last month and she was on there daily.

Told my bunkmate at the time "well, she'll be dead soon." Sad but an easy one to call.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Sad but an easy one to call.

Yes, sad but true.

Could be anyone, though... a female politician in Pakistan was bound to attract some unfriendly attention.

You do realize she was the Prime Minister during the mid/late 1990's, right?

I admired her courage in returning from exile to try and lead a new political movement in Pakistan. She knew the risks, and still came back and gave it her best shot. (So too did the assassin, it appears.)

Brave lady, and hopefully a martyr for Pakistan's move forward, rather than backward, as the Islamists there wish. I suspect here enemies list included more than solely Islamists.

Te saluto, Benazir, your courage makes you a giant.

Your assassins? Midgets.

DR

 

[Garrette]

No, I would start with the Islamists. Is there any precedent for a suicide bomber who is not an Islamist?

Tamil Tigers.

 

[Darat]

Whatever your views on her as a politician she was a very brave person, and she knew the very real risks she was running. Her father more than likely was executed on politically motivated charges, and two of her brothers killings are generally considered to have been politically motivated assassinations.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Not likely, but what if he contracted a third party who was Islamic extremist or pretending to be and willing to sell his services? Now we have the courier. Then this third party could give money to the families of the suicide bombers as Saddam was doing to Palestinians.

You have a valid point with the comparison to Saddam, but we have to look at how much Musharraf is hated by Islamists. He is right up there with Israel as a manic 'oppressor' of the rule by Caliph. You only have to look at the 'Dirty Kufr' rap video to confirm this.

Indeed, Zawahiri has been calling for his death for years now, and on Bin Laden's last audio tape (Which have been increasing in recent months) he called for an all out rebellion of the democratic system of Pakistan. Given Musharraf presumably has higher security, they have no reason to not go for his rival in democracy.

Given Bin Laden's audio tape, and the fact that this was a suicide attack, combined with the recent radical unrest, it surely carries all the hallmarks of Islamism.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Ayup.

I'm not sure how much Musharraf benefits from this, but I think it naive to assume he could not arrange it to happen in the manner it did. And even if it can be objectively shown that he benefits nothing, that does not mean that he would think he would not benefit.

That said, I think it more likely it wasn't Musharraf than that it was.

I'm not saying i believe the Musharraf theory, but here is an even more plausible way he could have been responsible, directly or indirectly:

. Haqqani, who served as a spokesman and top aide to Bhutto for more than a decade, blamed Pakistani security, either through neglect or complicity, in her assassination. "This is the security establishment, which has always wanted her out," he said through tears.
Bhutto: "She has been Martyred"

 

[CFLarsen]

No, I would start with the Islamists. Is there any precedent for a suicide bomber who is not an Islamist?

If I were you, I'd start with a history book instead.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm not saying i believe the Musharraf theory, but here is an even more plausible way he could have been responsible, directly or indirectly:

Your selected quote hardly addresses the political underpinnings of the problem. Remember why the state of emergency was under attack? It was part and parcel to getting Musharraf to stand down as both leader of the army, and leader of the government.

Politics.

For the past several months Pakistan has been plagued by a wave of violence that has seen hundreds of civilians killed in similar bombing attacks; and hundreds more military personnel, prompting President Pervez Musharraf to declare a state of emergency. On December 16th, Musharraf lifted the state of emergency, stating that the threat had been contained. The bombings, however, continued. Just hours before her assassination, Bhutto, 54, met with visiting Afghan President Hamid Karzai to discuss the threat of terrorism against both countries.

By the way, there is no (perfect) security. Bombers like this guy have the initiative.

DR

 

[alfaniner]

Every time something big like this happens, I'm reminded of Jeff Goldblum's line in Jurassic Park 2 -- "Hang on. This is gonna be bad."

No, she isn't a martyr. Being an assassinated public figure does not equate to martyrdom, even when one is universally popular which Bhutto was not.

Those who achieve martyr status are exceedingly rare and rarer still in the Islamic world. Can you name any from the last fifty years?

From the CNN/Time web page

Just days before parliamentary polls in Pakistan, leading Prime Ministerial contender and anti terrorism crusader Benazir Bhutto was shot dead during an election rally in the garrison city of Rawalpindi, near Islamabad. "She has been martyred," said party official Rehman Malik.

It didn't take long.

 

[Garrette]

By the way, there is no (perfect) security.

No, but there is lots of security that should have been perfect whose failure incontrovertibly means someone was negligent or complicit.

 

[Garrette]

From the CNN/Time web page


It didn't take long.

It didn't take long for the claim to be made there, just as it didn't take long for it to be made here. That is a long way from it being true.

 

[LawnOven]

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1710322437

Theres this which says Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.

“We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen,” Al-Qaeda’s commander and main spokesperson Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid told Adnkronos International (AKI) in a phone call from an unknown location, speaking in faltering English. Al-Yazid is the main al-Qaeda commander in Afghanistan.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Your selected quote hardly addresses the political underpinnings of the problem. Remember why the state of emergency was under attack? It was part and parcel to getting Musharraf to stand down as both leader of the army, and leader of the government.

Politics.

By the way, there is no (perfect) security. Bombers like this guy have the initiative.

DR

Maybe you could 'splain it to me. To my knowledge, the state of emergency was due to rising Islamic extremism. Also Musharraf and Bhutto were political rivals. Sorry for not giving the full quote, but the gist of it was that security looked the other way and let it happen, not performed the act itself. My knowledge of the situation is not great, though. What factors would have prevented this (security looking the other way)?