Being transgender is hard

truethat said:
Excuse me, this has nothing to do with transgendered issues. I find this offensive that you continually are comparing transgenders to animals. Stop it. Go to the research before you post again. Your statements are vile and disrespectful to the other posters
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This is straw man at best. I also in fact compared homosexuals to animals, and indeed all humans. Yet you decide to focus on one tad bit of my analysis. Are "vile" and disrespectful are sentiments I'm quite used to. Stop strawing up my statement.
 
Stereolab said:
You are really claiming that persons with the condition have not mutilated themselves?

And glad you love it; you're looking for reasons to be offended so I'm sure it's right up your alley.
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I definately agree with this statement.
 
Stereolab said:
You are really claiming that persons with the condition have not mutilated themselves?

And glad you love it; you're looking for reasons to be offended so I'm sure it's right up your alley.
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Of course they have mutilated themselves when they have not been able to get the surgery if they want it. But having surgery is not mutilation.

The trauma of this mental condition is based upon the lack of understanding and awareness in the past.
 
L.Y.S. said:
This is straw man at best. I also in fact compared homosexuals to animals, and indeed all humans. Yet you decide to focus on one tad bit of my analysis. Are "vile" and disrespectful are sentiments I'm quite used to. Stop strawing up my statement.
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Gender issues examined from an "animal" perspective is a sign of how very ignorant you are on this topic. Animals do not have gender, they lack the self awareness and consciousness to be able to self identify as either male or female.


Seems to me you are confusing sexuality with gender. This is the first sign that someone hasn't done their research.
 
epepke said:
I'm going to jump in here. I won't speak for anybody else, as I'm not as extreme as some. Here is what I'm skeptical of:

That diagnoses of pre-pubescent or barely pubescent children, either by the DSM or GID, are accurate enough to warrant the administration of hormones to prevent (not merely delay) puberty as provided by, for example, the WPATH (Harry Benjamin) standards.

That's really it. There's a lot that I'm not skeptical about, including hormone treatments on adults (adults can legally consent), hormone treatments on infants born with ambiguous genitalia or the victim of circumcision accidents, and wearing different clothes with a different haircut, or the existence of the transgendered in general.

What I'd like to see evidence for is what I consider ridiculously extreme confidence in the accuracy of psychological diagnostic methods on children, to the extent that it is self-evident to many that the correct thing to do is give them hormones that will at least threaten and probably destroy their ability ever to have children for the rest of their lives. Not only that, but self-evident to the point that it is perverse and an indication of bigotry to withhold automatic assent.
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Also this statement shows more ignorance on the topic and a very old fashioned way of thinking. You support forced gender identification based on the physical appearance of the body. No wonder you have a hard time with this. LOL.

That's the very thing transgenders are fighting against. Also hormone treatments for botched circumcisions created nightmares for the child this was done to.

http://www.amazon.com/As-Nature-Made-Him-Raised/dp/0060192119
 
Stereolab said:
Nope, animals don't have those. Male and female animals act exactly identically. LOL
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Seriously, you are making me laugh right about now. You are saying that animals act like men and women? Are you serious?


You don't understand the difference between sexuality and gender. Do some research.


also please point out the research that backs up animal culture and psychology. I mean dayummmm
 
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Dessi said:
I'm gone for one day and my thread turns into this?
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Dessi they've got some great advice for you. Instead of trusting your therapist who has years of experience listen to these guys. Check out the animal kingdom and also consider all the positives of giving hormones to victims of genital mutilation and forcing them to live as the opposite gender.

The comments here pack a powerful punch let me tell ya. ;)
 
truethat said:
Seriously, you are making me laugh right about now. You are saying that animals act like men and women? Are you serious?
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I don't know what your native language is, but for English speakers my comment was pretty easy to understand.

I'm glad we have you around to trust to explain what words mean instead of, you know, a dictionary.
 
Toke said:
I know the Swedish have a movement with gender neutral kindergartens, somehow I doubt it will play out as expected.
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If by 'movement' you mean one single kindergarten in Stockholm then yeah, you're right.

Oh, and since some of you people seem to know everything it would be interesting to see evidence that JUST DEAL WITH IT is a viable and successful treatment for gender dysphoria.
 
Stereolab said:
I don't know what your native language is, but for English speakers my comment was pretty easy to understand.

I'm glad we have you around to trust to explain what words mean instead of, you know, a dictionary.
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Sweetie you have no idea how silly your comments look right about now. Sexual identity is not gender.


Please explain to us how animal psychology works. I'm intrigued at this point. Ok not. :D
 
Arcade22 said:
If by 'movement' you mean one single kindergarten in Stockholm then yeah, you're right.

Oh, and since some of you people seem to know everything it would be interesting to see evidence that JUST DEAL WITH IT is a viable and successful treatment for gender dysphoria.
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Is someone promoting forced surgery? There are many people out there who can just deal with it. Others cannot.
 
truethat said:
Sweetie you have no idea how silly your comments look right about now. Sexual identity is not gender.


Please explain to us how animal psychology works. I'm intrigued at this point. Ok not. :D
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The Merriam-Webster definition of gender is:

"the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex"

Do you believe that is accurate?

If yes, you're claiming males of a certain species don't behave any differently than females, and you're completely throwing science out the window because you want to treat transgenders with kid gloves.

If no, you're claiming to be a more reliable source than the dictionary.
 
truethat said:
It's diagnosed as a mental condition which is not the same thing as a mental disorder. Of course it's a mental condition, mental state of mind. But we don't really understand gender and the way the brain works so to call it a mental DISORDER makes it sound like there is something wrong with the person perceiving themselves as the opposite gender. And there is nothing wrong with this. It's who they are.
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It is a disorder if it severely afflicts the person. For example if it leads to depression, suicidal thoughts, etc. I agree there is nothing wrong with wanting to be the opposite gender, as long as it does not hurt you. But if it does.. then I'm afraid it is a disorder, and the only theoretically possible way to help that person is to make the person accept their own body as it is, with or without any adjustments within the realm of the possible.
 
Arcade22 said:
If by 'movement' you mean one single kindergarten in Stockholm then yeah, you're right.
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I don't know how big the movement is.
Oh, and since some of you people seem to know everything it would be interesting to see evidence that JUST DEAL WITH IT is a viable and successful treatment for gender dysphoria.
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As far as I know dealing with it involves hormones and likely surgery.
I see a big practical advantage in starting before puberty, but don't know how early you can be sure of gender identity.
 
epepke said:
What I'd like to see evidence for is what I consider ridiculously extreme confidence in the accuracy of psychological diagnostic methods on children, to the extent that it is self-evident to many that the correct thing to do is give them hormones that will at least threaten and probably destroy their ability ever to have children for the rest of their lives. Not only that, but self-evident to the point that it is perverse and an indication of bigotry to withhold automatic assent.
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I think you have a misperception of what is involved in diagnosing transgendered children. It isn't a quick and accurate psychological test after which children are diagnosed with confidence, but rather it is many years of observation to see whether a child's cross-gender identification persists. They only get hormones to postpone puberty if they persisted in their gender identification for many years, and that is only a treatment to allow them to reach an age in which they are assumed capable of making the decision whether to transition to the other sex or not without first have to face the trauma puberty would likely cause.

There is no "ridiculously extreme confidence" in the accuracy of diagnosing gender identity disorder in children. Quite the opposite. The whole treatment is based on delaying, stalling and waiting until there is no reason to suspect the child is ever going to identify with their biological sex.
 
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