Being bullied

[Chaos]

Some of us do not want a bully's respect, we want their destruction. Unless you can show me an evolutionary need for bullies (I can think of one that might be tried, but I don't buy it.), I see no necessity or reason for their continued life. Life/lives will never be trouble free for anyone (unless they are in a bed in a hospital living a brain-dead life on a respirator) but there is no need for others to purposefully add to those difficulties.

(my emphasis)

... and most of the rest of us want bullying to STOP, no matter how, no matter what the consequences for the bully.

And we don´t give a **** about what problems the bully might have, because he has no excuse whatsoever dragging the rest of us into it.

 

[qayak]

Some of us do not want a bully's respect, we want their destruction.

How's that working for you so far?

Unless you can show me an evolutionary need for bullies (I can think of one that might be tried, but I don't buy it.), I see no necessity or reason for their continued life.

Well, obviously bullying is an evolved human behaviour. When it happens to you you see it as a negative behaviour and put the negative "bully" label on the person doing it. When somebody wants something or, wants you to do something, they will try and get it or, get you to do it. One method is to bully and guess what, it works quite effectively.

And don't pretend that it is only on the school ground or that it is limited to uneducated brutes. Bullying happens everywhere in society. The police officer who shows up in uniform to discuss an "issue" with his kid's teacher. The lawyer who uses their company letterhead to jot a note to the store where they feel were "mistreated." Etc. They are all bullying tactics and they are used because they work.

Life/lives will never be trouble free for anyone (unless they are in a bed in a hospital living a brain-dead life on a respirator) but there is no need for others to purposefully add to those difficulties.

There is a need if they want something and are driven to get it. Those who stand in their way either move or get run over. The people who learn to deal with conflict are the ones who thrive in life. Those who refuse to look at the issues realistically are the ones that seem to turn into perpetual victims, crying to authority and whining to their friends all the time.

 

[qayak]

I can relate to another poster here -- a guy I barely knew, but who was the brother of a little one that made life sour for me when he got the chance, died in a motorcycle accident some years ago.

<Snip>

I'm glad he's dead.

Interesting, you didn't know him but you will hold him responsible for the fact that his brother harassed you. Isn't that more an indication of your problems than of his?

Research has showed that prolonged bullying can have just the same kind of effects on your psyche and future as domestic violence or sexual abuse.

And yet others suffer no lasting issues at all. That would seem to indicate that the issues are caused by how the trauma is handled and not by the actual incident itself.

People telling victims to suck it up or "hey, you can just hit back" (foxholeatheist, I'm looking at you) are simply ignorant and frankly no better than the "hey, she didn't resist so she asked for it" crowd that try to excuse rapists.

No, that's an emotional response and very untrue .

I was taught to do this recently -- someone says something bad about you, pretend you're happy to hear it and tell him you're happy he cares.

That's a bully in your world? In my world, friends trash talk each other all the time. Someone does something in class, go sit on their desk. Someone throws you an insult in a hallway, go after him and put some trash in his backpack without him noticing. People keep saying that you should hit back, and while that, too, can work great in certain situations, it's often little things that really work. Stuff that gets a laugh out of the class at the expense of the bully, and that he or she can't use against you by telling a teacher or whatever.

I think people watch too many feel good movies.

The civil rights people back in the day won because they were being hostile and active without really doing anything wrong. Sitting in the middle of the road in a huge group is a big nuisance to traffic, but it's also a very "passive", harmless thing to do in that while you are blocking all traffic in the street, which is a fairly drastic move, the image people remember is you just sitting there. Contrast that with the batons, attack dogs and fire hoses, and you have a fairly one-sided war that can only end in victory (unless the police goes to the drastic step of killing you, which, of course, in this case they couldn't).

Ummmmm . . . no.

Behind the civil rights movement was the knowledge that things could turn very violent, very quickly. If you look at the history the Civil Rights people weren't taken seriously until the Black Panthers showed up on the scene with a blatant willingness to violence. It was the same in South Africa. No changes took place and Mandella sat in prison until the military wing of the ANC was formed and started acting violently. Tiananmen Square was another example of non-violence not working.

When you negotiate from a position of weakness, it's called begging.

 

[qayak]

I'm seeing a lot of broad generalizations here that either just seem too simplistic or just plain wrong., ranging from "Most bullies were bullied" to " You boss riding your ass for a month isn't bullying."

Generally, I disagree with your assessment.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Interesting, you didn't know him but you will hold him responsible for the fact that his brother harassed you. Isn't that more an indication of your problems than of his?

[...]

Generally, I disagree with your assessment.

Are you here just to get a rise out of us, or can we look forward to you starting to take this thread seriously at some point in the future?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

There is a need if they want something and are driven to get it. Those who stand in their way either move or get run over. The people who learn to deal with conflict are the ones who thrive in life. Those who refuse to look at the issues realistically are the ones that seem to turn into perpetual victims, crying to authority and whining to their friends all the time.

You really believe you know what you're talking about, don't you?

 

[Cainkane1]

I'm seeing a lot of broad generalizations here that either just seem too simplistic or just plain wrong., ranging from "Most bullies were bullied" to " You boss riding your ass for a month isn't bullying."

I knew some bullies that weren't bullied. They tormented weaker students because they enjoyed it. Their parents loved them dearly and took up for them when on rare occassions someone said something to them.. Some of these punks had problems at home but most of them seemed psychotic. When they grew up they stayed psychotic.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Qayak, with all due respect, this is a thread about a serious issue; you may want to take trolling elsewhere.

 

[Cainkane1]

If you go to a site called Georgia Inmate locaters and you type in the name Robert Strickland you'll see a murderer who got life in prison for murder. He beat the crap out of weaker students for no reason and he didn't change a bit when he got out of school. I wonder if he had suffered consequences when he was younger if he would have known better than to beat a person te death?

 

[ShadowSot]

I used to get the crap beat out of me in school.
I used to get beat up for being white, for being friends with black kids, for being weaker and lighter than the groups in the school.
I got scrappy by third grade, when they started leaving me alone.

Then I moved to a private, Catholic school.
Due to the differences between public and private, I was about two years behind most of the students, went from having above par grades at the public school, to nearly failing.
Also, most of the kids came from a wealthy or white collared background.
I come from a decidedly blue collar background, and started working at seven years.

It's difficult to state how it affected me, for sure.

I have it fixed in my head at this point I'm an idiot, though others state I'm not.
Even though I'm stronger than several of my peers, I consider myself weak.
I have a temper I can't always control, and have a deep fear bordering on phobia of alienating anyone I talk to.
Above all, I just can't relate to people, I spent most of my childhood either working with folks twice my age, getting beat up by kids my own age, or being shunned by them due to my aberrant behavior I developed over time.
I spent a lot of time alone in my own head, not a pleasant place to be.
Fell into a lot of woo nonsense.

I managed to turn around, developed some good friends, got into karate which helped a lot, but still, got some issues.

I genuinely like people, don't get me wrong.
And, despite all my whining, normally I'm a very cheerful person.
I've got some baggage I'm working thorough, and I get by.

Um...
[/whine]

 

[TraneWreck]

I would be willing to bet a significant sum of money that a large percentage of bullies were themselves bullied--most likely by their parents or caretakers when they were very young.

"Willing to bet it's true" and "have evidence that it's true" are two different things.

It may be true that most bullies were themselves bullied, and it may even further be true that the bullying had a causal affect on them becoming bullies, but before I accept that, I'd need to see some evidence of it. It's a semi-reasonable hypothesis, but only that until we see the evidence.

I'm seeing a lot of broad generalizations here that either just seem too simplistic or just plain wrong., ranging from "Most bullies were bullied" to " You boss riding your ass for a month isn't bullying."

It turns out that the strongest predictors of bullying are school size (counterintuitive result), domestic violence, and a history of maltreatment.

http://www.child-psych.org/2009/04/bullying-what-makes-child-bully-or.html

- Being exposed to domestic violence was one of the stronger risk factors for becoming a bully. The risk for being a perpetrator increased by 50% for those children exposed to domestic violence. Exposure to domestic violence was not associated with becoming a victim of bullying.

- A history of child maltreatment resulted in a 100% increase in the risk of being a victim of bullying and 50% increase in the risk of become a perpetrator.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

School size shouldn't be that much of a surprise, when you think of it. It means the teachers have a better overview, and that there's fewer students to keep track of. Contrast this with a big school where students have plenty of classes, teachers and classrooms.

 

[qayak]

Are you here just to get a rise out of us, or can we look forward to you starting to take this thread seriously at some point in the future?

Well the second quote was in jest, hence the smiley but am I to assume that because I didn't pat you on the back for being happy that the brother of a bully, someone you admit you didn't know, is dead, I am not taking this seriously?

And, do you seriously not expect comments when you post on a public forum? If you do, do you seriously expect everyone to agree with you?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Well the second quote was in jest, hence the smiley but am I to assume that because I didn't pat you on the back for being happy that the brother of a bully, someone you admit you didn't know, is dead, I am not taking this seriously?

And, do you seriously not expect comments when you post on a public forum? If you do, do you seriously expect everyone to agree with you?

[/very transparent strawmen]

Given that I usually find you quite a mature person, why have you changed your attitude in this thread? But all right, I'll reply to what you dropped here.

_________________________
​

Interesting, you didn't know him but you will hold him responsible for the fact that his brother harassed you. Isn't that more an indication of your problems than of his?

What a ridiculous strawman. I certainly never said I didn't know him, and I state that he was an "*********". What could you possibly imply from that other than that he treated me badly?

Oh, of course. That I didn't know him.

And yet others suffer no lasting issues at all. That would seem to indicate that the issues are caused by how the trauma is handled and not by the actual incident itself.

Yes, the level of damage varies from person to person. The same goes for all sustained injuries, mental or physical. Some people walk away from car accidents, some die in them. Some are back on their feet functioning normally only weeks after a rape, others are completely devastated. Thank you so much for pointing out that humans experience things differently. I'm sure all the people who read my post (which happened to say nothing to the contrary) appreciate your helpful correction. Are you really suggesting that if someone is traumatized, it's his or her own fault for choosing to react that way? That's as baseless as me saying that if I beat someone up and they suffer badly as a result, it's their own fault for poorly managing their pain.

No, that's an emotional response and very untrue.

Please show your work. Given how we know that both bullying and sexual abuse have serious psychological effect, how, exactly is trivializing one better than trivializing another? I don't assume it's because some victims of bullying don't react as strongly as others, just like rape victims, so please substantiate your thoughts.

I think people watch too many feel good movies.

Right. I suppose I was just imagining that my method worked. Thank you again for pointing the reality of the matter out to me.

Ummmmm . . . no.

Behind the civil rights movement was the knowledge that things could turn very violent, very quickly. If you look at the history the Civil Rights people weren't taken seriously until the Black Panthers showed up on the scene with a blatant willingness to violence. It was the same in South Africa. No changes took place and Mandella sat in prison until the military wing of the ANC was formed and started acting violently.

Regardless, it was the passive resistance that helped win "White America" over to the African-Americans' side.

Tiananmen Square was another example of non-violence not working.

Tiananmen won the Chinese people the free market economy that has catapulted their nation to its current position. Been to Shanghai after 1989? There have been built about 3000 skyscrapers there, roughly 200 a year, or about three a week. Had it not been for the Massacre of the Students, the residents of Shanghai would have been working rice fields.

When you negotiate from a position of weakness, it's called begging.

Generally, I disagree with your assessment.

 

[dasmiller]

Well, obviously bullying is an evolved human behaviour. When it happens to you you see it as a negative behaviour and put the negative "bully" label on the person doing it. When somebody wants something or, wants you to do something, they will try and get it or, get you to do it. One method is to bully and guess what, it works quite effectively.

Your perception of bullying is completely different from mine. I don't remember bullys wanting something, or wanting someone to do something. It was all about status; the bullies used bullying to establish their place in the pecking order.

 

[qayak]

You really believe you know what you're talking about, don't you?

Well, let me see. I have never allowed a bully to torment me and I have never had an ongoing issue with one . . . not from lack of trying on their part.

On the other hand, several people here are seen as experts and yet they seem to have had a lot of issues with bullies, issues that affect them for their entire lives . . . so, yeah! I think I have something to add here.

There are two people in this equation, the bully and their target. The target plays a major role both in how they deal with the bully and in how they deal with the aftermath. They can choose to be proactive, address the problems and go on and enjoy their lives or they can choose to continue being the victim.

It is really easy for people to tell a child that "bullying shouldn't happen" but that doesn't give a child any skills to deal with it when it invariably does happen. It is like telling your daughter that date rape shouldn't happen so she shouldn't worry about it happening to her. Or worse yet, telling her to wait until it does happen and report it to someone who doesn't want to hear about it.

I think education is always better. Learn the skills required to deal with the problems you are likely to run into in life and help your children learn them too.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Well, let me see. I have never allowed a bully to torment me and I have never had an ongoing issue with one . . . not from lack of trying on their part.

Oh, that nonsense again. "It didn't affect me badly, so if you had your life ruined it's your own fault". A friend of mine once fell off of an 8.9 metre cliff. She survived just fine. I suppose this means she has a lot to add about falling off of cliffs, since, you know, everyone else are obviously doing it wrong.

 

[qayak]

Your perception of bullying is completely different from mine. I don't remember bullys wanting something, or wanting someone to do something. It was all about status; the bullies used bullying to establish their place in the pecking order.

Isn't that wanting something?

 

[qayak]

Oh, that nonsense again. "It didn't affect me badly, so if you had your life ruined it's your own fault". A friend of mine once fell off of an 8.9 metre cliff. She survived just fine. I suppose this means she has a lot to add about falling off of cliffs, since, you know, everyone else are obviously doing it wrong.

You have it backwards. You get bullied and she fell off a cliff. I wouldn't ask your advice on how not to get bullied or hers on how not to fall off a cliff.

 

[Cainkane1]

Well, let me see. I have never allowed a bully to torment me and I have never had an ongoing issue with one . . . not from lack of trying on their part.

On the other hand, several people here are seen as experts and yet they seem to have had a lot of issues with bullies, issues that affect them for their entire lives . . . so, yeah! I think I have something to add here.

There are two people in this equation, the bully and their target. The target plays a major role both in how they deal with the bully and in how they deal with the aftermath. They can choose to be proactive, address the problems and go on and enjoy their lives or they can choose to continue being the victim.

It is really easy for people to tell a child that "bullying shouldn't happen" but that doesn't give a child any skills to deal with it when it invariably does happen. It is like telling your daughter that date rape shouldn't happen so she shouldn't worry about it happening to her. Or worse yet, telling her to wait until it does happen and report it to someone who doesn't want to hear about it.

I think education is always better. Learn the skills required to deal with the problems you are likely to run into in life and help your children learn them too.

So were you a bully yourself?