"Beat me to death"

Yes, when did I say: "Töben is a threat"?

Ah, I see. Pulling your usual crap. I can eat some ice cream and say "mmmm, its sooo sweet and cold and full of little chocolate chips", but you can't quote me saying that I liked it. I'm not going to bother connecting all your posts together in the neat little contradiction they always end up being because you'll huff and puff and this thread will be on page two in a week and you'll be posting the same bs in another thread. I don't need to look up anything because your whole premise is about how you feel Holocaust denial is a threat in Germany and we should believe you because your grandma from a Spielberg movie told you so.

From the op:

I don't know what happened to this jewish Man [I can only imagine], but
my Grandma told me that at this point, she knew what fear is about.

And I tell you this story because you should know that freedom of speech
is one thing, but preventing those things from happening again, is more
important than allowing the same kind of hate-speech that led to the
things that I just mentioned.

Better thought, you should answer your grandma with this statement next time she tries to tell you about fear.

And why don't you ask the German Government about their fears?
Or google a little-bit since you just provided evidence that you're
capable to complete such tasks.
 
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Ah, I see. Pulling your usual crap. I can eat some ice cream and say "mmmm, its sooo sweet and cold and full of little chocolate chips", but you can't quote me saying that I liked it. I'm not going to bother connecting all your posts together in the neat little contradiction they always end up being because you'll huff and puff and this thread will be on page two in a week and you'll be posting the same bs in another thread. I don't need to look up anything because your whole premise is about how you feel Holocaust denial is a threat in Germany and we should believe you because your grandma from Speilberg movie told you so.

From the op:

Better thought, you should answer your grandma with this statement next time she tries to tell you about fear.


Is your sole purpose to post in this thread trying to ridicule me
and what my Grandma told me?

Well, congratulations - I let others speak now if there is any
interest for a real debate other than playing "Who wants to
be a millionaire".

Anyway: My point is racism has to be fought -including via
law if hate-speech poses threats to others. If that is a bad
thing to support, then "so be it".

Adiós. :)
 
Is your sole purpose to post in this thread trying to ridicule me
and what my Grandma told me?

Well, congratulations - I let others speak now if there is any
interest for a real debate other than playing "Who wants to
be a millionaire".

Anyway: My point is racism has to be fought -including via
law if hate-speech poses threats to others. If that is a bad
thing to support, then "so be it".

Adiós. :)

Congratulations on proving my point yet again. The cornered mouse runs for the hole. I'll see you in the next thread you start. What's it going to be next? Iran is no threat to gay people while blasting US gay marriage policy? Or, maybe you can just lay low and jump into the next Matteo thread as a wingman. I'm sure he's got a "US has committed the Holocaust 2" in him by adding up all the imperialism over the last 100 years.
 
By the way, Chaos: What did your Parents/Grandparents told you about
what they witnessed?
 
Anyway: My point is racism has to be fought -including via
law if hate-speech poses threats to others. If that is a bad
thing to support, then "so be it".

Whoa, back up. There it is again.

Oh, but you didn't say "Toben" so it doesn't count right?
 
That would be interesting to see Ahmadinejad arrested on one of his speaking tours and extradited to Germany to face trial for Holocaust denial.

As far as Ahmadinejad is concerned - I would really like to see him arrested, extradited to Israel, and tried for incitement to genocide. I mean, he did threaten Israel specifically, didn´t he?
 
I finally came to my senses after that “diplomatic immunity” uppercut that came from out of nowhere. I literally fell off my chair reading that, I truly didn’t see that one coming.

Oliver, you are a special case, I have rarely seen anybody in my lifetime so willingly deceive himself in such a gleeful way, you’ve constructed yourself such a perfectly tight and auto regulatory system of self-confirmation that it is literally impossible to argue with you.

I love it.

It’s truly fascinating, we never know what we’re going to get next, and this “diplomatic immunity” shtick really tops it.

Now, could you answer all of these questions?:

1) If Ahmadinejad didn’t have “diplomatic immunity”, would you agree to censor him if he made Holocaust denial propaganda in your country?

2) If you say yes to the above:

a) to what extent would you censor him?
b) why wouldn't he be censored in other countries, what makes Germany a special place?

3) How does the “diplomatic immunity” status make him or what he says about the Holocaust less of a threat? Does his special status make the content of the propaganda different?

4) Don’t you think that a head of state spouting Holocaust denial gives this hate ideology somekind of legitimacy? Doesn't this make it more likely to have an impact?

5) If you answered ‘yes’ to the above question, wouldn’t this head of state be even more of a threat than any regular person spouting Holocaust denial on any kind of forum?
 
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Anybody note that Oliver seems to take umbrage at the citizens of other countries criticising One of Germany's laws, while Oliver has made a full time career of commenting on American Politics (about which he knows very,very,little).
 
Okay, let me rephrase: instead of "a world religion", use "the dominant religion pretty much any place they lived in".
Well, accuracy is nice, better than the overstatement initially offered. :)
Oh. And since they put up with it, it means they were not the victims of it? :confused:
Your words, not mine, and you really, really, missed the point.

As I pointed out, it was a successful survival strategy, putting up with all that second class citizen stuff -- where the alternative may well have been extinction of a culture. As I said, I tip my cap. Likewise to the Basques.

Seen any Goths lately, Chaos, as in the Goths Caeser would recognize?

The victim issue is an appeal to emotion, so, waaah effing waaah.
Being, well, "asked" to "borrow" money to whoever it was that ruled whatever place they lived in, knowing perfectly well (whether it was explicitly stated or not) that compliance with such "requests" was the only thing keeping the ruler from simply confiscating what they owned and killing or expelled them.
I see, and no other peoples were so put upon? Is that your wheeze here? You will note that the Jews, once again, did a decent job of turning a burden into a virtue with long term positive outcomes: see the wealthy Rothschild family for a superb example of taking lemons, and making some fine lemonade. You, on the other hand, are merely whinging.
Unless you are even dumber than you are pretending, you know exactly who I am pretending to.
I am tweaking your nose for both gross overstatement and whinging, and appealing to the cult of the victim. Lame, it is.
Well, finally.
Just trying to be nice. Rare, I know. :)
How about you prove that "hyperbole" thing by showing me either that these things did not happen to the jews, or that there are other groups who had the same things happen to them?
Actually, you are the careless one who pretends it didn't happen to others. What the others, see the Goths mentioned above, didn't do was hold on to their culture, they tended to assimilate.

The price for non assimilation, it seems, is to stand out as the other, historically. That can attract all kinds of crappy attention. The Basques trod a bit of a middle ground there, the Amerinds who chose not to assimilate sure as hell stand out, and so on.

But hey, you demand special victim status for a people who, by putting up with a lot of crap, are still a reasonably cohesive cultural group. How about you stop with the whinging? You attitude sucks. Look at how many other peoples over the centuries did NOT pull that off.

Druids. Saxons in England. Ibero-Celts. The Karankawa.

Rather than whinge about the troubles those folks went through, how about you tip a cap for pulling off the cultural coup they managed?
And I´m not even waiting for chillzero to actually explain why my post earns her oh-so-righteous condemnation.
Might have been the whinging.

ETA: if you have been following the news, the Chaldean Christians in Iraq, who have had to put up with over a millenium of second class citizen crap, also known by some as Dhimitude(spelling may be off here) in relation to Islam, the dominant religion, are at significant risk of being ethnically cleansed from Iraq. We'll see how that plays out. See also the risks to the Syriac Christians, and the crap the Coptic christians of Egypt, an ancient cultural group, are putting up with in re modern Islamist spite and malice. You also seem to ignore the Armenians, but then, they do have a place to call home, which the Jews didn't for a long while, due to getting their asses kicked by the Romans back in the day.

History is not kind to losers.

The Chaldeans' Achilles Heel, for the moment, is that unlike the Jewish diaspora, they don't have as robust an international network of places to run to as the Jews developed over the centuries. Even more ironic is that this allegeldy Christianophile president of the US has not offered to the Chaldeans anything like the support the Viet Namese boat people got in the 70's when our wars there did such damage to Vietnamese social stability.
 
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As far as Ahmadinejad is concerned - I would really like to see him arrested, extradited to Israel, and tried for incitement to genocide. I mean, he did threaten Israel specifically, didn´t he?


No, he did not. He's being accused of saying: "I will wipe off Israel from
the face of the planet", which is a complete mistranslation of what he
said, namely:

Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
 
Nor did he answer Pardalis' questions. Oliver is the new Claus, eh? Nobody takes him even remotely seriously.
 
Mine too.

Never mind, I'm sure that there'll be some further diversion supplied in the thread to play the 'my people are more worthy of their victim status than any other victims ever' game regardless of whether that's the topic or not.

MaGZ, in response to your posts. It was my understanding too that caustic lime, etc were used to dispose of bodies. However, it's not beyond the realms of possibility (it's even been documented, I'm sure) that not everyone who ended up in these pits were dead immediately. I don't really see how that is a point worth making - these people were being killed systematically either way.

Oliver seems to be saying (as I asked him earlier for clarification, I'm still not sure) that freedom of speech led to this situation. What's your take on the dangers of free speech?

Free speech has little effect on the national course of events. Giving third parties and independents equal access to the electorate via the ballot, the media and debates would present a greater threat to the System that free speech.
 

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