Split Thread BBC news reporting

[Ziggurat]

But as I have demonstrated, this is not a message that the BBC is presenting consistently.

I didn't say it was. But it was still a message that both AUP and plauge311 defended. Your argument is very different from their argument.

 

[a_unique_person]

That's like saying wars aren't violent because most soldiers don't actually fight.

If violence was happening a lot of the time and in a lot of the locations, then the protests were violent, even if that violence was committed by a minority of the protesters.

No. It's not.

 

[a_unique_person]

I didn't say it was. But it was still a message that both AUP and plauge311 defended. Your argument is very different from their argument.

The intent of a war is that everyone is contributing to the violence and intending that there be violence.

 

[Ziggurat]

The intent of a war is that everyone is contributing to the violence and intending that there be violence.

Why does intention have anything to do with this? Violence is an action, not an intention.

 

[smartcooky]

If most of the protestors were peaceful then they were mostly peaceful despite the extreme violence by a minority.

Well that is a somewhat interesting way to spin what's happening.

Sure, this started off peacefully. Over 500,000 people took to the streets across cities such as Paris and Marseille to demonstrate against the high cost of living, rising fuel prices, and deteriorating public services. But those protests were very soon hijacked by violent fringe groups, mostly far left gangs, Antifa and Islamists. They set fire to cars and buildings—including the historic 143-year-old town hall in Limoges (which managed to survive two world wars). They looted hundreds of shops, and clashed heavily with police, who deployed tear gas, water cannons, and batons. The French police made over 2,000 arrests.
Its THESE events the BBC and other mainstream media sources are mischaraterizing as peaceful, not the earlier protests from a couple of weeks ago.

 

[arthwollipot]

Its THESE events the BBC and other mainstream media sources are mischaraterizing as peaceful, not the earlier protests from a couple of weeks ago.

Except as I demonstrated, the BBC is not doing that.

 

[smartcooky]

Except as I demonstrated, the BBC is not doing that.

Your carefully curated video clips do no such thing

 

[arthwollipot]

"Carefully curated"? I literally went to the BBC News site and grabbed five articles about the riots completely at random.

 

[angrysoba]

Well that is a somewhat interesting way to spin what's happening.

Sure, this started off peacefully. Over 500,000 people took to the streets across cities such as Paris and Marseille to demonstrate against the high cost of living, rising fuel prices, and deteriorating public services. But those protests were very soon hijacked by violent fringe groups, mostly far left gangs, Antifa and Islamists. They set fire to cars and buildings—including the historic 143-year-old town hall in Limoges (which managed to survive two world wars). They looted hundreds of shops, and clashed heavily with police, who deployed tear gas, water cannons, and batons. The French police made over 2,000 arrests.
Its THESE events the BBC and other mainstream media sources are mischaraterizing as peaceful, not the earlier protests from a couple of weeks ago.

Half a million attending peaceful protests which were "hijacked by violent fringe groups". Then it seems perfectly reasonable to characterize them as mostly peaceful.

My sister lives in France. Where she is there have indeed been peaceful protests.

Even in Paris it tends to be particular streets which have rioting, and of course these make for the most dramatic images.

Maybe @Flo can fill you in on this...?

 

[a_unique_person]

Why does intention have anything to do with this? Violence is an action, not an intention.

Were most people violent. It's like the George Floyd protests. Most protestors were peaceful.

 

[a_unique_person]

Well that is a somewhat interesting way to spin what's happening.

Sure, this started off peacefully. Over 500,000 people took to the streets across cities such as Paris and Marseille to demonstrate against the high cost of living, rising fuel prices, and deteriorating public services. But those protests were very soon hijacked by violent fringe groups, mostly far left gangs, Antifa and Islamists. They set fire to cars and buildings—including the historic 143-year-old town hall in Limoges (which managed to survive two world wars). They looted hundreds of shops, and clashed heavily with police, who deployed tear gas, water cannons, and batons. The French police made over 2,000 arrests.
Its THESE events the BBC and other mainstream media sources are mischaraterizing as peaceful, not the earlier protests from a couple of weeks ago.

My conspiracy theory of the day. The worst of the leftists are pro Russian tankies who set out to do the most damage they possibly could. Farmers and the right have had violent protests as well. This was next level and intended to destabilise France itself.

 

[Ziggurat]

Were most people violent. It's like the George Floyd protests. Most protestors were peaceful.

A protest can still be violent even if most protestors are not violent. If violence is being committed everywhere and every time they are protesting, even if by a minority of protesters, then the protests are violent. If you go to a protest and you can expect to be exposed to violence, then the protests are violent. A minority of people can make something violent.

You know this. Everyone knows this. People only pretend otherwise because they don’t like the implication.

 

[Ziggurat]

Half a million attending peaceful protests which were "hijacked by violent fringe groups". Then it seems perfectly reasonable to characterize them as mostly peaceful.

United 93 started as a peaceful flight which was hijacked by Al qaeda. It’s perfectly reasonable to characterize it as a mostly peaceful flight.

 

[smartcooky]

What the French Government has been saying....

French PM blames 'ultra-left' groups for weekend riots, promises 'massive' security deployment

French Prime Minister Sébastien Lecornu said Tuesday during a session of the National Assembly that authorities would mobilise a "massive" security presence next weekend after organisers announced plans…

www.france24.com

President Macron, Prime Minister Lecornu, and Interior Minister Nunez have explicitly blamed a violent group from the ultragauche (far-left) and radical groups for weaponizing student frustrations to target public institutions. Officials accuse Mélenchon's hard-left France Insoumise (LFI) party of encouraging the protests for electoral advantage ahead of the upcoming presidential election.

What many observers report

https://www.news18.com/explainers/masked-violent-who-are-black-bloc-activists-and-why-are-they-drawing-attention-amid-france-protests-ws-lrs-10388299.html

Observers note that some rioters have dressed in black bloc attire (black clothing and balaclavas), a tactic historically associated with radical anti-capitalist, Antifa and anarchist groups. The choice of targets such as attacking city halls, torching public buildings, and tipping over symbols of the French Republic is cited by critics as evidence of an anti-state, far-left political agenda.

Even the left-biased CNN and Guardian are not trying to hang the blame on the far-right.

 

[Flo]

Well that is a somewhat interesting way to spin what's happening.

Sure, this started off peacefully. Over 500,000 people took to the streets across cities such as Paris and Marseille to demonstrate against the high cost of living, rising fuel prices, and deteriorating public services. But those protests were very soon hijacked by violent fringe groups, mostly far left gangs, Antifa and Islamists. They set fire to cars and buildings—including the historic 143-year-old town hall in Limoges (which managed to survive two world wars). They looted hundreds of shops, and clashed heavily with police, who deployed tear gas, water cannons, and batons. The French police made over 2,000 arrests.
Its THESE events the BBC and other mainstream media sources are mischaraterizing as peaceful, not the earlier protests from a couple of weeks ago.

500 000 is the official number, that is always overrated, just as the organisers number is overrated (800 000 to over a million). Peaceful protesters, int the vast majority of cases and of the cities. I live in a rather quiet and mostly unknown region of France, there have been protests all around, some rioting in the only relatively big city (Saint-Etienne, where two youths have lost respectively an eye and a hand due to a stun grenade thrown by the police), but not in any of the smaller towns.

The apparition of ultra left and right (don't conveniently forget the right, please) groups, and not an islamist in sight, ready and willing to make sure things would turn sour, and followed by looters, is no surprise in the (parts of) cities where media coverage ensures the world will see France all ablaze.
The bona fide protesters know it, the authorities know it, but as usual the latter refuse to cooperate with the former in order to minimise the damages (times and itineraries, coordination with the police, sharing of informations about the violent groups, etc).
Le Monde EDITORIAL

Protests on 17 October: the government is to blame for the fiasco in policing

The violence that accompanied Saturday’s demonstrations stems from a failure on the part of the government to anticipate and analyse the situation, and from a security strategy ill-suited to the circumstances

Now of course, everybody and their cousins are blaming only the (far) left, try to insert immigration and islam into the picture, and gleefully announce that France is finished, etc.

 

[Mojo]

Observers note that some rioters have dressed in black bloc attire (black clothing and balaclavas), a tactic historically associated with radical anti-capitalist, Antifa and anarchist groups.

‘Army of Christian patriots’: how a black-clad vigilante group swarmed Portsmouth

Daniel Thomas has spent months trying to unify the UK’s disparate far right to form a disciplined anti-migrant force

www.theguardian.com

 

[angrysoba]

500 000 is the official number, that is always overrated, just as the organisers number is overrated (800 000 to over a million). Peaceful protesters, int the vast majority of cases and of the cities. I live in a rather quiet and mostly unknown region of France, there have been protests all around, some rioting in the only relatively big city (Saint-Etienne, where two youths have lost respectively an eye and a hand due to a stun grenade thrown by the police), but not in any of the smaller towns.

The apparition of ultra left and right (don't conveniently forget the right, please) groups, and not an islamist in sight, ready and willing to make sure things would turn sour, and followed by looters, is no surprise in the (parts of) cities where media coverage ensures the world will see France all ablaze.
The bona fide protesters know it, the authorities know it, but as usual the latter refuse to cooperate with the former in order to minimise the damages (times and itineraries, coordination with the police, sharing of informations about the violent groups, etc).
Le Monde EDITORIAL

Now of course, everybody and their cousins are blaming only the (far) left, try to insert immigration and islam into the picture, and gleefully announce that France is finished, etc.

Thanks for that!

Don't worry, some people have never read history before, it seems.