BBC 9/11: The Conspiracy Files

Andrew Lowe Watson Notes on Show

Omissions: no eyewitness reports of explosions. No FDNY testimonies. No quotes from anchors. No mention of FAA records being destroyed. No sustained shots of the WTC1 & 2 'collapses' showing explosive force . No mention of debris hurled 400 feet sideways. No molten metal. No Thermite. No Steven Jones. No David Ray Griffin. No mention of 4,000,000 views of Loose Change. No 85 confiscated videos at Pentagon. No Minetta testimony. No skeptic eyewitnesses at pentagon or Shanksville. No no-planes. No DEWs. No free-fall speed. No clear clip of WTC7. No toxic dust. No dying responders. No big-names ( Bowman, Paul Craig Roberts, Von Buelow, Meacher, Sheen, Lynch etc etc). No polls. No BBC report that 5 of hijackers still alive. No UBL denial . No insider dealing . No Giuliani, No Silverstein
No Marvin Bush. No 'Pull it' No Danny Jowenko. No Bush at Booker. No CIA funding of Al-Qaeda. No Northwoods. No power-downs at WTC. No sniffer dogs.
No Willy Rodriguez. No Rick Siegel . No 911truth.org.
Distortions: WTC7 shown four times in weakest shot (the one used for Berger CNN interview where 7 is half hidden). Impression of scientists v. isolated fanatical individuals. Alex Jones as cult-leader at quasi- evangelical 'rally'. Fetzer in close-up moving his head around a lot . Only Dylan held his cool and in one classic scene when interviewed about Wally Miller he exuded seething if controlled anger. Strawmen like '4,000 Jews' used to discredit whole range of 911 skepticism. Presented 'evidence' of UA93 crash as Bandana and Passport, then said , "In the face of ALL THIS,some still believe it was a conspiracy."
Lies: "WTC 7 was a raging inferno"."Flight 11 took off that morning". OGCT presented as fact.
X-files writer-"To think that the US government contains mass-murderers is preposterous". Popular Mechanics given credibility as ordinary down to-earth magazine.
Ended by trying to boil down the whole movement to FBI's admission of failure to act on intelligence supplied to CIA. ''The American people were failed" .
Concluding words of V/O: "The other conspiracy theories are just that - theories.
The evidence doesn't support them.
We were never shown that evidence.
 
Well, TruthSeeker1234, can you list 10 main points that you think a 1-hour documentary on 9/11-CT should address?
 
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If I could introduce a cautionary note here. After all, even if 9/11 brought us here in the first place, our primary duty is not "9/11 debunkers" but as skeptics. And it's important to note that a documentary like this is actually no better than Loose Change in certain ways. It's impossible for any TV or film documentary to truly give a complete, fully-referenced picture on any subject. And the result is that the programme is forced to cherry pick its evidence, no less than Dylan Avery was. In the end, talking to that Senator who stated that the cover up of the CIA/FBI failings amounted to a conspiracy (at least he was honest enough to say "conspiracy in the sense that more than one person was involved") was in essence no different from Dylan and the others having one or two witnesses who support their view in the face of overwhelming testimony to the contrary. I myself disliked the fact that Senator Bob was asked a very leading question about Condi Rice's supposed attitude, whether it was apologetic or regretful. And out of any context of how and when he spoke to her, it was meaningless reportage and anecdotal. Neither was there any apparent attempt to get an answer out of Condi Rice, the Department of State or active members of the FBI or CIA on those final questions as to whether there had been a cover up.

I do feel its far too easy to praise this programme to the skies simply because it starts with the conspiracy theories and ends with what we regard as "the right answer". But in actual fact, the programme really made no verifiable progress in comprehensively disproving the conspiracy case, finished with its own use of the very same techniques of the conspiracy theorists to make an unnecessary political point, pretty much all because it's a one-hour documentary and nothing can be reliably derived from it.

Next week's programme is about the David Kelly affair. Hopefully we will if nothing else be able to point the CT-ers in the direction of what a real whitewash commission report actually looks like, real "distortions and omissions", and real contradiction of known fact, ie that the dossier was skewed to paint a picture that was not remotely derived from any reliable intelligence, and that the chief architect of making it look the way it did was Alistair Campbell, and that the conclusion of the Hutton Report was in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Of course the CTs focus on the fact that Dr Kelly ended up dead, and will assume that the government had him killed. This despite the fact that the government only ended up in trouble because he died, and forced the Director General of the BBC and the reporter who had leaked Kelly's remarks out of their jobs. For one thing, I'm quite interested in how the BBC will end up portraying the BBC's role in these matters.
 
Actually, looking back I think the documentary was quite nicely done as well - did a pretty good job of representing 9/11, tasteful, etc. One thing that would have been nice to see is more challenging interviews with the truthers - if the documentary's highlighting problems with what they're saying, put these problems to them directly and see how nuts the response makes them look ;) More Avery/simile type questions.

Anyway, how about a new T-shirt slogan:

Louder than Words: Hearing 'Simile', Demanding Definitions

Oh yeah, and I liked the description of Jones - the loudest voice in the 9/11 truth movement. Too right, even w/out the bullhorn :D
 
The Independent's review of the show:

"The conspirators...get absolutely furious at the thought of contradiction. For them the world is not messy - it is an occult piece of clockwork...point out a gaping hole in their pet theory and they simply spot a site ripe for future development...The internet, that Petri dish for lunacy, has provided the perfect growth medium for this kind of nonsense, allowing the instant promulgation of the half-truths on which conspirators thrive...Dylan Avery, the creator of Loose Change, does not take kindly to having the defects in his argument pointed out. Told that a study by Popular Mechanics had concluded that the official report on the collapse of the Twin Towers was consistent with both the facts and the physics he got very waspish: 'Their authority is tractors, right? They should stick to what they know.' Dylan, in common with many of his colleagues in the conspiracy world, know less than nothing and, in fact, their approach to technical matters is so sloppily indifferent to elementary science that you wouldn't even trust them to wire a plug for you."
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Is there a way to watch this without downloading the torrent? If not, what do I have to do first?
 
The Daily Telegraph review:

"The Conspiracy Files listened to the theories with admirable patience. It did a fine job of tracing rumours to their source - usually an inaccurate news report from the day of the attack. It did its best to understand why people might want to blame the American government. Yet, in the end, it demolished the conspiracy arguments with such ease that you wondered why it had given them so much airtime in the first place.

As a rule, all that was needed was a simple injection of fact. If the US Air Force didn't shoot down United 93, why was the debris strewn across an eight-mile area? (Answer: It wasn't.) Why was the hole in the Pentagon wall so small? (Answer: Because that's the size of hole a Boeing 757 would make.) Meanwhile, of course, there was the depressing feeling that the only people who really needed to be watching the programme wouldn't believe a word of it."
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TruthSeeker1234 said:
Omissions: no eyewitness reports of explosions. No FDNY testimonies. No quotes from anchors. No mention of FAA records being destroyed. No sustained shots of the WTC1 & 2 'collapses' showing explosive force . No mention of debris hurled 400 feet sideways. No molten metal. No Thermite. No Steven Jones. No David Ray Griffin. No mention of 4,000,000 views of Loose Change. No 85 confiscated videos at Pentagon. No Minetta testimony. No skeptic eyewitnesses at pentagon or Shanksville. No no-planes. No DEWs. No free-fall speed. No clear clip of WTC7. No toxic dust. No dying responders. No big-names ( Bowman, Paul Craig Roberts, Von Buelow, Meacher, Sheen, Lynch etc etc). No polls. No BBC report that 5 of hijackers still alive. No UBL denial . No insider dealing . No Giuliani, No Silverstein
No Marvin Bush. No 'Pull it' No Danny Jowenko. No Bush at Booker. No CIA funding of Al-Qaeda. No Northwoods. No power-downs at WTC. No sniffer dogs.
No Willy Rodriguez. No Rick Siegel . No 911truth.org.
Distortions: WTC7 shown four times in weakest shot (the one used for Berger CNN interview where 7 is half hidden). Impression of scientists v. isolated fanatical individuals. Alex Jones as cult-leader at quasi- evangelical 'rally'. Fetzer in close-up moving his head around a lot . Only Dylan held his cool and in one classic scene when interviewed about Wally Miller he exuded seething if controlled anger. Strawmen like '4,000 Jews' used to discredit whole range of 911 skepticism. Presented 'evidence' of UA93 crash as Bandana and Passport, then said , "In the face of ALL THIS,some still believe it was a conspiracy."
Lies: "WTC 7 was a raging inferno"."Flight 11 took off that morning". OGCT presented as fact.
X-files writer-"To think that the US government contains mass-murderers is preposterous". Popular Mechanics given credibility as ordinary down to-earth magazine.
Ended by trying to boil down the whole movement to FBI's admission of failure to act on intelligence supplied to CIA. ''The American people were failed" .
Concluding words of V/O: "The other conspiracy theories are just that - theories.
The evidence doesn't support them.
We were never shown that evidence.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this comprehensive survey of all the stuff, comprising 90% of the CTs, that the producers clearly considered having so little basis as to not be worth recording. The Truth movement owes them their heartfelt thanks.

Did I remember wrongly, because I distinctly remembered them mentioning Northwoods early on, and it keeps coming up on the Truth sites as having "never been mentioned".

By the way, the "4000 Jews" is not a straw man, it's a consistently promoted lie that is still current in many quarters of the Arab world. Not everything has to be aimed at the specific 9/11 "Truth" movement, sometimes you have to say something about stuff that other people believe.
 
Larry Lovage said:
Not everything has to be aimed at the specific 9/11 "Truth" movement, sometimes you have to say something about stuff that other people believe.
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And, of course, not everything has to be aimed at what the American 9/11 truth movement believes. The BBC does have a tradition of taking/trying to take a relatively international view - and these theories about 4,000 Jews being pre-warned have had an interational influence.
 
So, out of an American Population of 300 million, and a world population of 6 BILLION, truthignorer1234 reckons 4 million hits is really impressive?

lol see I can play silly games with figures too!
:p
 
It'd also be interesting to know how many of that 4 million actually bothered to watch all of it.
 
No CIA funding of Al-Qaeda
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This is correct the CIA have never funded Al Qaeda. Please, please, please please TS read a book; you can find them in Libraries. Look at the section marked `History`.

Find a book on subjects like The Cold war or The Afghanistan War.
 
I have to rewatch the show but they made it look like if wtc7 was directly in front of the two collapsing towers and imploded. But I think we can be happy that they show the building after 5.5 year, I think it is still unbelievable that they even didn't mention it in those days after 9/11.
But as expected they didn't go into details. Only a popular mechanics kid, no serious experts from both views. A screaming Alex Jones, yes indeed he has a big mouth but he got points also. People of the David J Griffin level didn't appear in the show.
 
cludgie said:
It'd also be interesting to know how many of that 4 million actually bothered to watch all of it.
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Subtract one from the total - I gave up watching it after about ten minutes with the thought "this is utter rule8".
 
einsteen said:
I have to rewatch the show but they made it look like if wtc7 was directly in front of the two collapsing towers and imploded.
Click to expand...
you are blaming the BBC for how you remember interpreting their footage?


But I think we can be happy that they show the building after 5.5 year, I think it is still unbelievable that they even didn't mention it in those days after 9/11.
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building 7 did get some mention in the days after eth attacks, but it wasn't eth "big" story, as it wasn't, um, as big as the twin towers (both physically and culturally) and had fewer casualties.

But as expected they didn't go into details. Only a popular mechanics kid, no serious experts from both views.
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which serious experts in structural engineering does the truth movement have?

A screaming Alex Jones, yes indeed he has a big mouth but he got points also.
Click to expand...
no, he really doesn't

People of the David J Griffin level didn't appear in the show.
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You had Jim Fetzer, who as a philosopher is just as qualified as a theologian to explain the structural collapse of the twin towers (I presume that you David ray griffin, not David J Griffin). Perhaps you could rank the experts the tooth movement ash on its side, so we will know n future who we should b taking seriously and who we can ignore, some refernce to the basis of their Authority on matters of structural engineering, aviation, controlled demolition and international relations would be nice.
 
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