Bart Ehrman on the Historical Jesus

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Please, get familiar with the WITNESSES of antiquity. Writings attributed to Jerome and Papias show that James the Apostle was NOT the brother of Jesus.

James the Apostle could NOT be the brother of Jesus when it is claimed his father was Alphaeus and his mother was the sister of Mary.

Jacob was an exceedingly common Jewish male name. There is no reason to posit Ya'qob bar-Yosef (brother of Yeshua bar-Yosef) as the same person as either Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah (brother of Yohanneh bar-Zevadiyah) or Ya'qob bar-Hilfai. The three are readily distinguished in the gospels. Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah has Yohanneh as his brother in Matthew 4:21, 10:2, 17:1, and as a group they are nicknamed Bne-Rgashy "sons of tumult" (Mark 3:17). Meanwhile this group listed in Matthew 10:2 is distinguished from Ya'qob bar-Hilfai in the next verse (10:3). The mention of Levi bar-Hilfai in Mark 2:2 suggests the possibility that Levi and Ya'qob were brothers though they we nowhere designated as such (as there could have been more than one Hilfai, as there were multiple people named Yosef and Ya'qob). Then Yeshua, Yosef, and Ya'qob were listed as brothers and the sons of Maryam and Yosef in Matthew 13:55, and in 27:56 Maryam the mother of Yosef and Ya'qob is distinguished from the mother of sons of Zevadiyah --- again implying a distinction between two different James. There is also a distinction between multiple James in Acts. In Acts 1:13, the apostle Ya'qob (listed adjacent to Yohanneh, customary for the sons of Zevadiyah) is explicitly distinguished from Ya'qob bar-Hilfai. Then in Acts 12:2, Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah, brother of Yohanneh, is put to death, requiring the Ya'qob mentioned in chapters 15 and 21 to be some other Ya'qob (i.e. Ya'qob bar-Yosef).

Paul is more ambiguous, but the mention of the appearance of Christ to Ya'qob as separate from the previous appearance to the Twelve (1 Cor. 15:5-7) implies that this Ya'qob was probably not part of the Twelve (which included the sons of Zevadiyah), but part of the wider group of apostles ("James, and then the rest of the apostles"); so this supports the distinction of multiple James. And then in Galatians 1:18-20, the James mentioned there is dubbed "James, the brother of the Lord", which is a specification that typically is aimed as clarification (such as "James, brother of John" in Acts 12:2 for the son of Zevadiyah and "Jude, brother of James" in Jude 1:1 for the son of Yosef). This is distinct from Paul's fraternal use of "dear brother" (always "my" or "our" brother, never the brother of someone else), and the latter sense doesn't work well in the context, with James designated in this manner and not Cephas (while both are mentioned on the same level in Gal. 2:9 as the esteemed pillars; note also 1 Cor. 9:5). Also it is noteworthy that James is specified in chapter 1 but not chapter 2. In chapter 1, Paul describes his visit to Jerusalem three years after his conversion in the 30s C.E., a time when Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah was still alive, and so specifying James as the one who was the brother of Jesus would have distinguished him from the son of Zevadiyah. Paul's visit to Jerusalem in chapter 2 some fourteen years later would have been after Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah's death (in 44 C.E., if the scenario in Acts is to be accepted), Paul just refers to "James" multiple times without specification, and grouped presumably with Yohanneh bar-Zevadiyah as one of the Jerusalem pillars, as without the other James, James the Just would have been the most prominent James in Jerusalem. Similarly one can find that in Acts, once Ya'qob bar-Zevadiyah dies, the specifications are dropped and thenceforth we just find references to "James" (12:17, 15:13, 21:18).
 
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A very different interpretation of Jesus is found in Romans 1.

3 concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

When did Jesus resurrect?

When was the Epistle to the Romans written?

Who declared Jesus was the Son of God AFTER he resurrected?

Paul the Liar.

Macarius Magnes' "Apocritus"
We conclude then that he is a liar and manifestly brought up in an atmosphere of lying.
 
What makes you think Galatians 1.19 is historical when you admit Paul was a Liar.

The Pauline writer appears to be a Liar.

You have already ADMITTED that Paul was a Liar

There's plenty of things one can glean from lies. Besides, can you say with any sort of confidence that everything in there is a lie ?
 
Belz...

Could we not multiply the number of names that this guy already has ? It's distracting.
I don't think that going back to Simon would help much at this point :)

proudfootz

I tried to be careful and use the word 'generally' to signify 'not exclusively', and the word 'spiritual' to signify the sort of fictive kinship used among fellow believers in contrast to a literal family member.
OK. As long as we're clear, then all is well.

Thanks for the link. There seems to be a bit more of the argument quoted here at, no surprise, the JW site.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wat...t-Ehrman-Paul-Viewed-Jesus-Christ-as-an-Angel

Bart's putting an awful lot of weight on "angel" not being messenger, "Christ Jesus" meaning Jesus before he was born rather than after he died, and Paul not having meant what he said in the same letter (2:19-20) when he told the Galatians that it was no longer Paul that lived, but Christ in him.

I think we're going to have wait for the book to see how this turns out. Anyway, not a lot so far about fooling demons.
 
I must admit I simply can't see any similarity between these phrases. If James had a title "Brother of The Lord" and it meant "Brother in religious affiliation" then Peter and the others were also entitled to it, but are not addressed by Paul in that way.




There are numerous very obvious things wrong with your assumption even before anyone considers what Paul may or may not have regarded as correct grammar and what he may or may not have always rigorously observed as correct spoken or written use of his language.

Firstly, just because he refers to James as "the Lords brother" (not, by the way, as you have it the "brother of the lord") at the end of one particular sentence, that does not mean he is somehow forced to say the same about Peter who he named earlier in the sentence. He may have simply decided to say “lords brother” in one case and not in the other. It may easily be the case that Paul/anyone might sometimes inc. that sort of title or remark, and sometimes he might not.

Sometimes Paul refers to people like Peter and James as “apostles”, and sometimes he doesn’t bother with the term “apostle”. He sometimes refers to himself as an “apostle” also; but mostly he does not.

Secondly, it may have been a specific religious title used for certain members of the faith community, e.g. people baptised by some particular figure such as JtB. In which respect Paul may have been distinguishing one particular “James” amongst several of that name known to that local Jerusalem church group. Or Paul may have wanted to make that sort of distinction for his intended readers in Galatia.

Thirdly, it is certainly true that Paul frequently talks of all sots of people as brothers, brethren and sisters etc., where he almost always means “brothers” in the faith, and not family members. So unless otherwise clarified by Paul, we should probably take any such mention to simply mean brothers in belief … because that’s what he almost always means by that term.

But even apart from all of that - as has been pointed out many times before, both here and in various books - those three words appear at the very end of a sentence which would otherwise have been complete without their addition. That is - the words are added as if in the form of an afterthought. E.g. like this -

“But other apostles saw I none … oh and before I forget, I also saw James … who by the way is “the Lords brother”

The sentence would have been perfectly natural & complete had it simply said “But other apostles saw I none.”

Here is the actual passage from Galatians -

Galatians 1:18-20
“Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not."


IOW - the way those final few words are added looks suspiciously like it might be a latter addition by Christians who by their later copyist times, thought he would have seen James at that time in Jerusalem. In which respect - keep in mind that the document we are talking about here as Galatians-1 is known only from copies made 150 years or so later by Christian copyists who were apparently well known to have been in the habit of simply altering things where they latter came to think the original needed changing.

Also in that same respect of the few final words being in the form of an added afterthought, and with the possibility of it being a later copyists addition - note that Paul never again says any such thing about James or anyone else being an actual brother of the “Lord”.

Ie - afaik that is the one and only time Paul ever appears to say that anyone might be a family brother of the Christ. And although we have what is supposed to be the written epistles of that very same “James”, nowhere in James own epistle does he himself ever claimed to have ever even met Jesus, let alone ever claim to be his actual family brother for 30+ years.

Keep in mind also that wherever Paul’s letters talk about anyone ever “seeing” Jesus, it is always in the form a visionary spiritual belief, and never as any bodily meeting with a real person named Jesus. Nor does he ever say that this “James” had ever actually seen, met or knew a living Jesus … which is a bit strange if Jesus was supposed to have been known to this James as own brother for over 30 years.

Thus for example, in recounting his vision, Paul says that at some unknown earlier date “James” had also seen a spiritual vision of the “Christ” … but if this Christ was already known to James as his actual brother for 30 years, then it seems a bit unnecessary to say that James knew him from a vision or knew he was the Christ because of any vision.

Also in respect of that same Jerusalem meeting - this supposedly took place only 3 years after the vision which changed Paul’s entire life, such that after the vision he does absolutely nothing else except devote all day every day to preaching about Jesus and what Jesus/God has revealed to him as THE divine truth of all eternity. And yet when he meets someone supposedly the actual brother of Jesus for the past 33 years, Paul never asks James a single thing about Jesus! And James apparently never offers to tell Paul or anyone else a single thing about him knowing any earthly brother Jesus! This is the most import thing in Paul’s entire existence, to Paul the most important thing in the whole of mankind’s history, and yet he never bothers to ask James a single thing about his brother “Jesus”??

In fact, iirc, elsewhere in his letters (Corinthians, iirc … but I quoted it before anyway) Paul actually says the complete contrary. He says that he is not interested at all in what James or any other so-called “Pillars” of the Jerusalem church claim as their faith in “Christ” (their faith is apparently in the Christ, i.e. a messiah, but not necessarily Paul’s figure “Jesus”). He completely dismisses James and the others as authorities who could tell Paul anything about the “Lord Jesus Christ” … he (Paul) says he knows everything from divine revelation by Christ/God himself/themselves(??), and that whatever James and the other “Pillars” of the church may believe is of no interest or concern to him.

IOW - as I said long long ago; it is possible that Paul really did think James was a family brother of Jesus. But there are many more reasons to think that one single mention only meant a brother in the faith, if indeed it was not actually just a latter scribal addition.

And that’s apart from the fact that Paul would not necessarily know if James or anyone was really a family brother of this “Christ” anyway. James or anyone else might have claimed to have been a brother or friend of Jesus, without it actually being true. Apart from this particular “James”, it would hardly be surprising if by the time of Paul’s writing, whether that was as early as 50AD or as late as dejudge thinks it was in the 2nd century (and where in the extant copies that we/everyone is relying upon, it is in any case almost certainly c.200AD, and possibly later than that), all sorts of people had probably claimed to have personally known Jesus or claimed “he was my brother!”.
 
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An interesting discussion of Paul's use of the word 'brother' is found on the Vridar site where scholarship on early christianity is discussed:


"In the singular, I have been able to locate in the epistles and Revelation only two usages of the word “brother” having the clear meaning of “sibling”: a reference in 1 John to Cain as the murderer of his brother Abel, and the ascription heading the epistle of Jude: “Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James.” In the plural there is technically one, in 1 Timothy 5:2. As far as the world of the epistle writers is concerned, a “plain meaning” of “brother” equals the sense of “brethren” in a religious group; it is at least as natural as the sense of sibling."

<full article linked below>

http://vridar.org/2012/06/18/20-ear...-bart-ehrmans-case-against-mythicism-part-20/

Paul seems generally to use the word 'brother' in the spiritual sense, and to use it here in a carnal sense would go against Paul's notion of Jesus as a pre-existing divine being who once took on the mere appearance of a human to fool some demons.



Thanks for that Vridar link. Very interesting and detailed discussion from Doherty on this specific issue of “James, the Lords brother”, which Craig, David Mo and other HJ posters here ought to read.

Not because what Doherty says is totally definitive (nothing in this entire Jesus NT subject ever seems to be really definitive), but because he clearly explains why for numerous reasons it’s far from safe to believe that one ultra brief mention of just three words (never repeated) is by any stretch of objective imagination convincing for a human “Jesus” (and I just put “Jesus” in quotes again, because as Doherty points out, the three words refer to the “Lord”, not necessarily to or meaning Paul’s figure “Jesus”).
 
Thanks for that Vridar link. Very interesting and detailed discussion from Doherty on this specific issue of “James, the Lords brother”, which Craig, David Mo and other HJ posters here ought to read.

Not because what Doherty says is totally definitive (nothing in this entire Jesus NT subject ever seems to be really definitive), but because he clearly explains why for numerous reasons it’s far from safe to believe that one ultra brief mention of just three words (never repeated) is by any stretch of objective imagination convincing for a human “Jesus” (and I just put “Jesus” in quotes again, because as Doherty points out, the three words refer to the “Lord”, not necessarily to or meaning Paul’s figure “Jesus”).

You have yet to show us anything that would be convincing for a Mythical Jesus.

We see lots of references to a descendant of David who was a man, but no references to a Celestial Jesus who was crucified up in the sky.

Apply some of your skepticism to your own position.
 
proudfootz

OK. As long as we're clear, then all is well.

A great deal of sturm und drang can be avoided when we take time to engage in conversation rather than the take-no-prisoners approach!

Thanks for the link. There seems to be a bit more of the argument quoted here at, no surprise, the JW site.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wat...t-Ehrman-Paul-Viewed-Jesus-Christ-as-an-Angel

Bart's putting an awful lot of weight on "angel" not being messenger, "Christ Jesus" meaning Jesus before he was born rather than after he died, and Paul not having meant what he said in the same letter (2:19-20) when he told the Galatians that it was no longer Paul that lived, but Christ in him.

I think we're going to have wait for the book to see how this turns out. Anyway, not a lot so far about fooling demons.

The bit about fooling demons is the interpretation of 1 Corinthians 2:6 - 8

" We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Here taking Paul's archons to be referring to spiritual powers who would not have killed Jesus had they recognized him as a spiritual agent. This is one of the 'Morton Four' in which Paul is supposedly speaking only of a very human Jewish man.

Similarly Paul talks about such 'rulers' in Ephesians 6

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

I don't know that Ehrman takes this path.
 
Thanks for that Vridar link. Very interesting and detailed discussion from Doherty on this specific issue of “James, the Lords brother”, which Craig, David Mo and other HJ posters here ought to read.

Not because what Doherty says is totally definitive (nothing in this entire Jesus NT subject ever seems to be really definitive), but because he clearly explains why for numerous reasons it’s far from safe to believe that one ultra brief mention of just three words (never repeated) is by any stretch of objective imagination convincing for a human “Jesus” (and I just put “Jesus” in quotes again, because as Doherty points out, the three words refer to the “Lord”, not necessarily to or meaning Paul’s figure “Jesus”).

Yes, it's far from safe to make sweeping conclusions based on a bible verse stripped of its mythological context.
 
There are numerous very obvious things wrong with your assumption even before anyone considers what Paul may or may not have regarded as correct grammar and what he may or may not have always rigorously observed as correct spoken or written use of his language.

Firstly, just because he refers to James as "the Lords brother" (not, by the way, as you have it the "brother of the lord") at the end of one particular sentence, that does not mean he is somehow forced to say the same about Peter who he named earlier in the sentence. He may have simply decided to say “lords brother” in one case and not in the other. It may easily be the case that Paul/anyone might sometimes inc. that sort of title or remark, and sometimes he might not.

Sometimes Paul refers to people like Peter and James as “apostles”, and sometimes he doesn’t bother with the term “apostle”. He sometimes refers to himself as an “apostle” also; but mostly he does not.

Secondly, it may have been a specific religious title used for certain members of the faith community, e.g. people baptised by some particular figure such as JtB. In which respect Paul may have been distinguishing one particular “James” amongst several of that name known to that local Jerusalem church group. Or Paul may have wanted to make that sort of distinction for his intended readers in Galatia.

Thirdly, it is certainly true that Paul frequently talks of all sots of people as brothers, brethren and sisters etc., where he almost always means “brothers” in the faith, and not family members. So unless otherwise clarified by Paul, we should probably take any such mention to simply mean brothers in belief … because that’s what he almost always means by that term.

But even apart from all of that - as has been pointed out many times before, both here and in various books - those three words appear at the very end of a sentence which would otherwise have been complete without their addition. That is - the words are added as if in the form of an afterthought. E.g. like this -

“But other apostles saw I none … oh and before I forget, I also saw James … who by the way is “the Lords brother”

The sentence would have been perfectly natural & complete had it simply said “But other apostles saw I none.”

Here is the actual passage from Galatians -

Galatians 1:18-20
“Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not."


IOW - the way those final few words are added looks suspiciously like it might be a latter addition by Christians who by their later copyist times, thought he would have seen James at that time in Jerusalem. In which respect - keep in mind that the document we are talking about here as Galatians-1 is known only from copies made 150 years or so later by Christian copyists who were apparently well known to have been in the habit of simply altering things where they latter came to think the original needed changing.

Also in that same respect of the few final words being in the form of an added afterthought, and with the possibility of it being a later copyists addition - note that Paul never again says any such thing about James or anyone else being an actual brother of the “Lord”.

Ie - afaik that is the one and only time Paul ever appears to say that anyone might be a family brother of the Christ. And although we have what is supposed to be the written epistles of that very same “James”, nowhere in James own epistle does he himself ever claimed to have ever even met Jesus, let alone ever claim to be his actual family brother for 30+ years.

Keep in mind also that wherever Paul’s letters talk about anyone ever “seeing” Jesus, it is always in the form a visionary spiritual belief, and never as any bodily meeting with a real person named Jesus. Nor does he ever say that this “James” had ever actually seen, met or knew a living Jesus … which is a bit strange if Jesus was supposed to have been known to this James as own brother for over 30 years.

Thus for example, in recounting his vision, Paul says that at some unknown earlier date “James” had also seen a spiritual vision of the “Christ” … but if this Christ was already known to James as his actual brother for 30 years, then it seems a bit unnecessary to say that James knew him from a vision or knew he was the Christ because of any vision.

Also in respect of that same Jerusalem meeting - this supposedly took place only 3 years after the vision which changed Paul’s entire life, such that after the vision he does absolutely nothing else except devote all day every day to preaching about Jesus and what Jesus/God has revealed to him as THE divine truth of all eternity. And yet when he meets someone supposedly the actual brother of Jesus for the past 33 years, Paul never asks James a single thing about Jesus! And James apparently never offers to tell Paul or anyone else a single thing about him knowing any earthly brother Jesus! This is the most import thing in Paul’s entire existence, to Paul the most important thing in the whole of mankind’s history, and yet he never bothers to ask James a single thing about his brother “Jesus”??

In fact, iirc, elsewhere in his letters (Corinthians, iirc … but I quoted it before anyway) Paul actually says the complete contrary. He says that he is not interested at all in what James or any other so-called “Pillars” of the Jerusalem church claim as their faith in “Christ” (their faith is apparently in the Christ, i.e. a messiah, but not necessarily Paul’s figure “Jesus”). He completely dismisses James and the others as authorities who could tell Paul anything about the “Lord Jesus Christ” … he (Paul) says he knows everything from divine revelation by Christ/God himself/themselves(??), and that whatever James and the other “Pillars” of the church may believe is of no interest or concern to him.

IOW - as I said long long ago; it is possible that Paul really did think James was a family brother of Jesus. But there are many more reasons to think that one single mention only meant a brother in the faith, if indeed it was not actually just a latter scribal addition.

And that’s apart from the fact that Paul would not necessarily know if James or anyone was really a family brother of this “Christ” anyway. James or anyone else might have claimed to have been a brother or friend of Jesus, without it actually being true. Apart from this particular “James”, it would hardly be surprising if by the time of Paul’s writing, whether that was as early as 50AD or as late as dejudge thinks it was in the 2nd century (and where in the extant copies that we/everyone is relying upon, it is in any case almost certainly c.200AD, and possibly later than that), all sorts of people had probably claimed to have personally known Jesus or claimed “he was my brother!”.

What makes Paul a compelling witness is that he expects his listeners to consider him a bold-faced liar.

"Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not."

The lady evangelist doth protest too much! ;)
 
Brainache


It is a correct grammatical structure, one among many, along with with what was actually written, not the correct grammatical structure, unique to the exclusion of all else, including what was actually written. There is no grammatical or syntactical issue, either way, with what Paul actually wrote.


Why would Paul want to write that? The passage isn't a collection of biographical sketches, it's a brag that when Paul visited Jerusalem, he snubbed all the apostles there except two. He applies no second epithet at all to Rocky, whom he identifies in the same story (at 2: 7-9),


So, when Paul writes of his earlier adventure at 1: 18-19


Paul tells his reader: I met only with my own peer, and one other guy whose eminence is second only to Rocky's and my own. Just because somebody saw the risen Christ, that's not enough for me to make the time to speak to them.

There's no grammatical problem here anywhere.

...

Are you saying that Paul was calling Peter a "Brother Of The Lord" along with James, even though he uses a singular form rather than the plural?

Elsewhere he refers to "Brothers of the lord" and Peter separately, doesn't he?
 
You have yet to show us anything that would be convincing for a Mythical Jesus.

We see lots of references to a descendant of David who was a man, but no references to a Celestial Jesus who was crucified up in the sky.

Apply some of your skepticism to your own position.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really expect skepticism out of a Myther???!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stone
 
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really expect skepticism out of a Myther???!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stone

Well, call me an optimist.

Maybe one day one of them will take a History course or something...
 
Brainache

Are you saying that Paul was calling Peter a "Brother Of The Lord" along with James, even though he uses a singular form rather than the plural?
No. Paul never says whether or not Peter is a "Brother of the Lord." What Paul does say is that Peter is entrusted with an apostalate to a named group just as Paul was. They are peers; Peter is the only person Paul decribes as his peer.

Why would Paul even bring up whether Peter was James' peer, when Peter is described as Paul's peer and James isn't? Surely not for identification. "Rocky" is already a distinctive identifying epithet in the context of the story. Once it is established who James is, then John, he of James, Rocky and John, is adequately identified when the (reputed - or is it widely known?) epithet of "pillars" is given to the three collectively.

Elsewhere he refers to "Brothers of the lord" and Peter separately, doesn't he?
Yes, he does, at 1 Corinthians 9: 5

Do we not have the right to take along a Christian wife, as do the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
The "rest of the apostles" are the apostles besides Paul, at least one of whom, James, is also among the Brothers of the Lord, and another of whom is Cephas.

The sentence is constructed as a typical "build of three" (most numerous category, then apparent proper subset, and finally a unique member), it would be just fine if Cephas were a Brother of the Lord, just as James, a known Brother of the Lord, is also an apostle other than Paul.

I conjecture that the build of three is progressively specific (Cephas is both), not just decreasing in cardinality, and that it is increasing in status. (It's nice to be an apostle, but you must be at least a BoL to get any personal time with Paul, and Cephas alone is someone whom Paul will approach as a peer - not always a nice thing, but a distinction nonetheless.)
 
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All instances of "X[proper name] <...> brother of Y" in the New Testament:

Matthew 17:1: John the brother of James
Mark 5:37: John the brother of James
John 1:20, 6:8: Andrew brother of Simon Peter
Acts 12:2: James the brother of John
Galatians 1:19: James brother of the Lord
Jude 1:1: Jude brother of James

This follows the pattern of indicating family relations in the Old Testament:

2 Samuel 23:18: Abishai brother of Joab son of Zeruiah
1 Chronicles 2:42: Caleb brother of Jerahmeel
1 Chronicles 11:38: Joel brother of Nathan
1 Chronicles 27:7: Asahel brother of Joab

The same construction in Josephus:

War 1.130: Phalion brother of Antipater
War 1.286: Joseph brother of Herod
War 2.21: Ptolemy brother of Nicolaus
War 2.83: Philip brother of Archelaus
War 2.247: Felix brother of Pallas
Antiquities 11.322: Manasseh brother of Jaddua, the high priest
Antiquities 12.44: Eleazar brother of Simon
Antiquities 12.158: Simon brother of Eleazar
Antiquities 12.238: Jesus brother of Onias
Antiquities 13.369: Antiochus brother of Seleucus
Antiquities 13:387: Antiochus brother of Philip, who was called Dionysius
Antiquities 14.33: Phalion brother of Antipater
Antiquities 16.194: Pheroras brother of the king

So "James brother of the Lord" follows a well-established expression for family kinship; I would give the benefit of the doubt to the explanation that interprets Gal. 1:19 similarly. Now, was there anyone else who was designated the same way? It seems that almost every single reference to an individual as "the brother of the Lord" or "the brother of Jesus" in early Christian writings is to James (Paul, Clement of Alexandria, Pseudo-Josephus, Origen [who uses the same verbatim wording as Pseudo-Josephus], Hegesippus, Hippolytus, Acts of Philip, Julius Africanus, Eusebius, Epiphanius). How come we don't find other disciples or apostles referred to the same way? Like: "Cornelius went to the house of Peter the brother of Jesus" "John the brother of the Lord met up with Phillip" and so forth. They don't, because only James and his less notable brothers would have been called that. The only exception I can find is "Jude the brother of the Lord" (Epiphanius).
 
All instances of "X[proper name] <...> brother of Y" in the New Testament:

Matthew 17:1: John the brother of James
Mark 5:37: John the brother of James
John 1:20, 6:8: Andrew brother of Simon Peter
Acts 12:2: James the brother of John
Galatians 1:19: James brother of the Lord
Jude 1:1: Jude brother of James

This follows the pattern of indicating family relations in the Old Testament:

2 Samuel 23:18: Abishai brother of Joab son of Zeruiah
1 Chronicles 2:42: Caleb brother of Jerahmeel
1 Chronicles 11:38: Joel brother of Nathan
1 Chronicles 27:7: Asahel brother of Joab

The same construction in Josephus:

War 1.130: Phalion brother of Antipater
War 1.286: Joseph brother of Herod
War 2.21: Ptolemy brother of Nicolaus
War 2.83: Philip brother of Archelaus
War 2.247: Felix brother of Pallas
Antiquities 11.322: Manasseh brother of Jaddua, the high priest
Antiquities 12.44: Eleazar brother of Simon
Antiquities 12.158: Simon brother of Eleazar
Antiquities 12.238: Jesus brother of Onias
Antiquities 13.369: Antiochus brother of Seleucus
Antiquities 13:387: Antiochus brother of Philip, who was called Dionysius
Antiquities 14.33: Phalion brother of Antipater
Antiquities 16.194: Pheroras brother of the king

So "James brother of the Lord" follows a well-established expression for family kinship; I would give the benefit of the doubt to the explanation that interprets Gal. 1:19 similarly. Now, was there anyone else who was designated the same way? It seems that almost every single reference to an individual as "the brother of the Lord" or "the brother of Jesus" in early Christian writings is to James (Paul, Clement of Alexandria, Pseudo-Josephus, Origen [who uses the same verbatim wording as Pseudo-Josephus], Hegesippus, Hippolytus, Acts of Philip, Julius Africanus, Eusebius, Epiphanius). How come we don't find other disciples or apostles referred to the same way? Like: "Cornelius went to the house of Peter the brother of Jesus" "John the brother of the Lord met up with Phillip" and so forth. They don't, because only James and his less notable brothers would have been called that. The only exception I can find is "Jude the brother of the Lord" (Epiphanius).

A solid overview.

My compliments,

Stone
 
Brainache


No. Paul never says whether or not Peter is a "Brother of the Lord." What Paul does say is that Peter is entrusted with an apostalate to a named group just as Paul was. They are peers; Peter is the only person Paul decribes as his peer.

Why would Paul even bring up whether Peter was James' peer, when Peter is described as Paul's peer and James isn't? Surely not for identification. "Rocky" is already a distinctive identifying epithet in the context of the story. Once it is established who James is, then John, he of James, Rocky and John, is adequately identified when the (reputed - or is it widely known?) epithet of "pillars" is given to the three collectively.


Yes, he does, at 1 Corinthians 9: 5


The "rest of the apostles" are the apostles besides Paul, at least one of whom, James, is also among the Brothers of the Lord, and another of whom is Cephas.

The sentence is constructed as a typical "build of three" (most numerous category, then apparent proper subset, and finally a unique member), it would be just fine if Cephas were a Brother of the Lord, just as James, a known Brother of the Lord, is also an apostle other than Paul.

I conjecture that the build of three is progressively specific (Cephas is both), not just decreasing in cardinality, and that it is increasing in status. (It's nice to be an apostle, but you must be at least a BoL to get any personal time with Paul, and Cephas alone is someone whom Paul will approach as a peer - not always a nice thing, but a distinction nonetheless.)

I'm finding it difficult to follow your reasoning here.
Do we not have the right to take along a Christian wife, as do the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

There appears to be three separate categories of people who are entitled to take a "Christian wife" on their travels: The other Apostles, The Brothers of the Lord, Cephas. I'm not sure why Cephas rates his own category, maybe because he was known to Paul's audience.

In both cases Peter (Cephas) is in a separate category to "Brothers Of The Lord".

It seems fair to to me to say that James was the leader of the "Gang" because Paul talks of "Some from James" who came to disturb his flock spying out their "Privy Parts" to see who was circumcised. They weren't just "Some random Jews" they were from James.

Whether or not there was more than one James can be debated. I know that Robert Eisenman thinks that "James the Brother of John" and "James the son of Zebedee" are later Christian over-writes or rewrites specifically to disguise the familial relationship of James and Jesus in defense of the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity.
 
All instances of "X[proper name] <...> brother of Y" in the New Testament:

Matthew 17:1: John the brother of James
Mark 5:37: John the brother of James
John 1:20, 6:8: Andrew brother of Simon Peter
Acts 12:2: James the brother of John
Galatians 1:19: James brother of the Lord
Jude 1:1: Jude brother of James

This follows the pattern of indicating family relations in the Old Testament:

2 Samuel 23:18: Abishai brother of Joab son of Zeruiah
1 Chronicles 2:42: Caleb brother of Jerahmeel
1 Chronicles 11:38: Joel brother of Nathan
1 Chronicles 27:7: Asahel brother of Joab

The same construction in Josephus:

War 1.130: Phalion brother of Antipater
War 1.286: Joseph brother of Herod
War 2.21: Ptolemy brother of Nicolaus
War 2.83: Philip brother of Archelaus
War 2.247: Felix brother of Pallas
Antiquities 11.322: Manasseh brother of Jaddua, the high priest
Antiquities 12.44: Eleazar brother of Simon
Antiquities 12.158: Simon brother of Eleazar
Antiquities 12.238: Jesus brother of Onias
Antiquities 13.369: Antiochus brother of Seleucus
Antiquities 13:387: Antiochus brother of Philip, who was called Dionysius
Antiquities 14.33: Phalion brother of Antipater
Antiquities 16.194: Pheroras brother of the king

You missed the single most important passage in Josephus which shows that the brother of "Y" does not always mean "Y" was human.

Gaius, the Emperor of Rome, also called himself the BROTHER of JUPITER.
Jupiter is the PROPER name of a Myth God.


Antiquities of the Jews 19.1.1
He also asserted his own divinity, and insisted on greater honors to be paid him by his subjects than are due to mankind.

He also frequented that temple of Jupiter which they style the Capitol, which is with them the most holy of all their temples, and had boldness enough to call himself the brother of Jupiter.

It is a failure of logic to assume the "Lord Jesus" was human in Galatians.

The Lord Jesus is a Myth God like Jupiter.

The Lord Jesus was NOT a man--he was the Son of a Myth God of the Jews.

1. Galatians 1.1--The Lord Jesus was NOT a man.

2. Galatians 4.4--the Lord Jesus was the Son of God.

3. Galatians is compatible with the NT.

4. There is no ACTUAL pre 70 CE evidence of an Apostle James and the Lord Jesus.

5. Galatians does not support the Heresy that Jesus was just a man.


It is most absurd to even assume that Galatians was Canonised although it was known to be contrary to the teachings of the Church.

And what is even more bizarre is that the description of the assumed obscure HJ does NOT match the LORD Jesus Christ in Galatians.

The Pauline Jesus, the Lord and Savior, God Creator who was sacrificied and resurrected for the Sins of mankind is NOT HJ.

Galatians 1 IS NOT EVIDENCE of an HJ who was crucified as a criminal after he caused a disturbance at the Jewish Temple.
 
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