Merged Barry Jenning's Tale

[MaGZ]

1. I have seen no such photos.
2. Provide them, or a link, or I will assume it is crap.
3. I hope you are not mistaking smoke from elsewhere, or fire reflections in WTC7 windows.

TAM

Here are a series of photos showing the lower floors of WTC 7 on fire with both towers standing. The fires appear in most of the photos, so it can not be considered an anomaly or a trick of lighting.

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/index.shtm

 

[T.A.M.]

really? Is that it? A few photos taken from miles away, so far that you can barely differentiate the windows of WTC7, and a few have what looks to me like reflections of light on them?

That is your Proof?

Why am I not surprised?

TAM

 

[WildCat]

Here are a series of photos showing the lower floors of WTC 7 on fire with both towers standing.

None of those photos show WTC 7 on fire prior to collapse.

 

[quicknthedead]

MagZ's non-proof photos and his incomprehensible Jenning's timeline brings to mind that fine paper posted recently by Ryan Mackey.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MagZ suffer from severe "Irreducible Delusion"?

 

[~enigma~]

MagZ's non-proof photos and his incomprehensible Jenning's timeline brings to mind that fine paper posted recently by Ryan Mackey.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MagZ suffer from severe "Irreducible Delusion"?

I wouldn't call it that...

 

[Miragememories]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

 

[johnny karate]

For those who remain confident that parsing and applying personal interpretation of someone else's words will somehow prove 9/11 was an inside job, I would like to point out that it doesn't.

 

[LashL]

<snipped> "As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

How many minutes do you suppose it took for Jennings and Hess to realize that the elevator they were attempting to board was not working?

How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?

Do you suppose that Jennings continued to wait for the elevator while Hess went to look for a stairwell? That's the impression that I get from what Jennings says, but as much of what he says appears to be inaccurate, who knows?

In any event, how long do you suppose it took before the both of them got to a stairwell and started making their way down?

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

Well, no. Simple subtraction tells us that it was 30 minutes between the time of the first collapse and the time of the second collapse, during which these two did several things, including making their way from the 23rd floor down to the 6th floor. That you have deliberately chosen to leave out several things during that 30 minute period does not make it "NIST's theory" but your own, obviously flawed, theory.

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

No, NIST isn't saying that. You are, by deliberately leaving things out and adding your own personal incredulity for purposes of making it appear to be an unusual time frame when, in fact, it is not.

How long do you think it takes to travel down 17 flights of stairs, in the dark, in a damaged building?

I certainly do not profess to know precisely, but I do know that throughout the several years that I worked in the 60+ storey Commerce Court West building at King and Bay, it took a good 30-35 minutes to make it down the stairs from my 26th floor office. That's with me being significantly younger and in far better physical condition than Jennings; that's with me knowing exactly where the closest staircase was (which was only ~30 seconds from my office); that's with me knowing exactly the path to take; that's with me knowing all of the crossover floors; that's with me knowing exactly where I was going in a building I was very familiar with; and that's with the building being undamaged, with full lights and full power*.

*Except for that one time on August 14, 2003 when the largest power outage in North American history hit several U.S. states and the province of Ontario, including all of Toronto and my building - it took longer to evacuate that time.

So, personally, I don't find the 30 minute time frame surprising in any way, except for, perhaps, its speediness in the circumstances. Perhaps the speediness is attributable to the sense of urgency they were experiencing at the time, although one has to admit that Jennings' account seems to exaggerate the events compared to Hess' account, which seems to downplay the events. So, perhaps it's a wash.

Either way, your suggestion that 30 minutes for the entirety of their experiences from the time of the first collapse to the second is somehow "too long" for the events that they describe seems quite baseless and unsupported to me.

 

[Galileo]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

Good work. NIST is confused. Very confused.

 

[Miragememories]

<snipped> "As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

<unsnipped> = from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

"With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there."

Originally removed in the interest of brevity. The omission does not create any misrepresentation of the NIST statement used.

"How many minutes do you suppose it took for Jennings and Hess to realize that the elevator they were attempting to board was not working?"

Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service. With the sense of urgency that exists in an emergency evacuation, I would be even more inclined to quit and find the stairs. So my answer would be seconds and not "minutes".

"How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?"

Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?

At any rate, if you look at the WTC7 floor plan, it's clear that the stairwells were very close to the elevators, as they often are.

"Do you suppose that Jennings continued to wait for the elevator while Hess went to look for a stairwell? That's the impression that I get from what Jennings says, but as much of what he says appears to be inaccurate, who knows?

In any event, how long do you suppose it took before the both of them got to a stairwell and started making their way down?"

Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview.

Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other.

"Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors)."

"Well, no. Simple subtraction tells us that it was 30 minutes between the time of the first collapse and the time of the second collapse, during which these two did several things, including making their way from the 23rd floor down to the 6th floor. That you have deliberately chosen to leave out several things during that 30 minute period does not make it "NIST's theory" but your own, obviously flawed, theory."

I based my statement on what NIST stated in NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not on Barry's statement. Obviously a certain amount of time was consumed before Barry Jennings placed his first step down the WTC7 staircase.

So much time, that when combined with his descent time added up to 30 minutes?

I don't see how that would be possible given that neither he nor Michael Hess were injured, extremely overweight or otherwise encumbered.

I tested my unhurried 17 story descent time in the building where I work and got a time of less than 200 seconds. The NIST time was 1800 seconds. That leaves a lot of time wasted wandering around looking for the lighted EXIT sign outside staircase.

"To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!"

"No, NIST isn't saying that. You are, by deliberately leaving things out and adding your own personal incredulity for purposes of making it appear to be an unusual time frame when, in fact, it is not."

I said I was putting what NIST said into perspective. Even if we cut the time in half and give them a ridiculous 15 emergency minutes to punch elevator buttons and walk to the stairwell EXIT, we are left with an unrealistic period of time for them to make their descent.

The things you accuse me of leaving out are magnified and distorted by your deliberate use of two stories that are clearly out of sync with each other.

One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does.

"How long do you think it takes to travel down 17 flights of stairs, in the dark, in a damaged building?"

NIST said "the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed".
NIST didn't say the power went out.

Barry didn't say the lights were out.

The stairwells in my building are very well lighted as are the emergency exit signs located at every hallway exit.

"I certainly do not profess to know precisely, but I do know that throughout the several years that I worked in the 60+ storey Commerce Court West building at King and Bay, it took a good 30-35 minutes to make it down the stairs from my 26th floor office. That's with me being significantly younger and in far better physical condition than Jennings; that's with me knowing exactly where the closest staircase was (which was only ~30 seconds from my office); that's with me knowing exactly the path to take; that's with me knowing all of the crossover floors; that's with me knowing exactly where I was going in a building I was very familiar with; and that's with the building being undamaged, with full lights and full power*.

And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent. What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit? My son ascended the CN Tower in 14 minutes.

"So, personally, I don't find the 30 minute time frame surprising in any way, except for, perhaps, its speediness in the circumstances."

Too funny.

"Perhaps the speediness is attributable to the sense of urgency they were experiencing at the time,although one has to admit that Jennings' account seems to exaggerate the events compared to Hess' account, which seems to downplay the events. So, perhaps it's a wash."

[Bolding is mine.]

And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!

"Either way, your suggestion that 30 minutes for the entirety of their experiences from the time of the first collapse to the second is somehow "too long" for the events that they describe seems quite baseless and unsupported to me."

Who is "they"?

According to Barry Jennings, he and Michael Hess were back on the 8th floor when the Twin Towers collapsed making NIST's 30 minute timeline nothing more than a partially fictional account designed to avoid their inability to explain the 6th floor explosion that occurred prior to the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers.

You have failed to present a convincing counter argument, and I find your merging of content from those two conflicting stories to be extremely duplicitous, especially for a lawyer.

MM

 

[LashL]

Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service.

I had almost forgotten how snide and obnoxious your posts often are. Thanks for the reminder.

Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?

You should avoid making such baseless assumptions. It leads you to leap to faulty conclusions.

NIST was not giving a play by play but rather a summary. There is, of course, no way of knowing how many of the details of Jennings' varying public accounts are accurate, but NIST based its summary on its interviews with Jennings and Hess.

Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview.

I am well aware of the fact that the time estimate comes from the NIST report. The same estimate that is based upon NIST's interviews with Jennings and Hess.

Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other.

Again, NIST's summary is based upon its interviews with Jennings and Hess. If you think that NIST has misrepresented them, perhaps you should take it up with them.

One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does.

What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?

And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent.

I know the time it took because I participated in numerous fire drills during the years that I worked there, the TFS timed us, reported on our evacuation times from various floors, and made recommendations to improve them.

What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit?

Now, you're just being rude and obnoxious again, as well as reading-challenged. As I said, I was younger and far more physically fit than Jennings, and a 26 storey descent in CCW took in excess of 30 minutes. You really should try to control your snideness.

And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!

If your post wasn't so rude and obnoxious, I might be inclined to do your homework for you, but in light of your behaviour, I'll just go back to ignoring you.

According to Barry Jennings, he and Michael Hess were back on the 8th floor when the Twin Towers collapsed making NIST's 30 minute timeline nothing more than a partially fictional account designed to avoid their inability to explain the 6th floor explosion that occurred prior to the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers.

Again, if you think that NIST has misrepresented Jennings and Hess, you should take it up with them. I haven't heard either of them complain about being misrepresented, have you?

You have failed to present a convincing counter argument,

Frankly, you have presented no argument to counter. I was merely commenting on the timing as being entirely plausible.

and I find your merging of content from those two conflicting stories to be extremely duplicitous,especially for a lawyer.

And... PLONK.

 

[MaGZ]

For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!

MM

Excellent point MM. The entire timeline NIST created is absurd. The explosion Jennings and Hess experienced was near the time of the second plane crash. This initial explosion likely caused the oil filled transformers to explode causing the landing on the 6th floor to give way. Jennings and Hess had to move to the North side of WTC 7 on the 8th floor to escape the fires that were developing on the south side of the building. Jennings knew when the Twin Towers came down because he clearly states his rescuers had to run for cover twice before they got out of WTC 7.

 

[SDC]

So, who is right? Jennings (as he spoke on the BBC), or Miragememories plus Magz? Will there be a public confrontation?

What a team.

 

[MaGZ]

I would like to see a written transcript of all the interviews Jennings and Hess gave. So far I have read only the LC transcript of Jennings. By closely analyzing their remarks new information my be discovered.

 

[Miragememories]

"Maybe it would require a significant amount of time for you to determine that an elevator was dead, but most people who have used elevators most of their lives can quickly tell if an elevator is out of service."

"I had almost forgotten how snide and obnoxious your posts often are. Thanks for the reminder."

Okay I take it back.

Apparently it is very difficult to determine that an elevator is not operational and maybe in energy saver mode or something.

""How long do you suppose it took before Hess went to look for a stairwell, as Jennings says he did?"

"Now you are leaving the NIST story and accepting a portion from the Barry Jenning's LCFC interview. I assume you're doing this because the NIST story does not indicate such a delay?"

"You should avoid making such baseless assumptions. It leads you to leap to faulty conclusions.

NIST was not giving a play by play but rather a summary. There is, of course, no way of knowing how many of the details of Jennings' varying public accounts are accurate, but NIST based its summary on its interviews with Jennings and Hess."

It's interesting that NIST's "summary" of Barry Jenning's testimony introduces so much of their own unsubstantiated opinion while totally ignoring key testimony which contradicts that opinion.

What exactly is NIST providing a summary of since they certainly aren't summing up the important points that Barry Jennings made?

They took a key witness and effectively ignored his testimony when it deviated from the story they wished to promote.

"Again you are using elements from two different stories which makes it impossible to answer the question. The exact 30 minute timeline is based strictly on NISTNCSTAR1-8 and not taken from Barry's testimony in the LCFC interview."

"I am well aware of the fact that the time estimate comes from the NIST report. The same estimate that is based upon NIST's interviews with Jennings and Hess."

Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony.

Based on your reasoning, since NIST hasn't published their interviews with Jennings and Hess, they are free to sum them up any way they wish, regardless of how much contradiction they introduce.

"Those two versions, one from a person who was there, Barry Jennings, and the other, from NIST based for all I know on pure speculation to fit their timeline, are not in substantive agreement with each other."

"Again, NIST's summary is based upon its interviews with Jennings and Hess. If you think that NIST has misrepresented them, perhaps you should take it up with them."

Hmm.

Let me get this straight.

You claim to be a seasoned lawyer.

You have read NIST's summary regarding Barry Jenning's testimony.

And are familiar (I'm assuming here) with Barry Jenning's full LCFC interview.

If so, you must be aware that Barry gave contrary testimony as to where he was at the time of each tower's collapse and he explains why he is justified in being so certain that he experienced both collapses at a time and location completely different from what NIST claims.

Yet you apparently do not think NIST has misrepresented Barry's testimony in a fashion that suits NIST's timeline?

Is it any wonder that thinking people feel quite justified in questioning the validity of NIST's many WTC conclusions when they show so little respect for eyewitness testimony that contradicts their theories.

"One story has no reason to be false (Barry Jennings) while the other (NIST's) most definitely does."

"What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"

Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11.

"And you just happen to have those non-urgent timelines conveniently recorded? Not to mention 26 floors vs. 17 floors of descent."

"I know the time it took because I participated in numerous fire drills during the years that I worked there, the TFS timed us, reported on our evacuation times from various floors, and made recommendations to improve them."

They actually timed you specifically without the delays inherent in joining a crowd of people during an evacuation?

They noted your 30 second journey to the familiar stairwell and your 30-35 minute crowded descent of 26 floors vs. the 17 floor descent Barry faced in an empty stairwell?

We have those drills twice a year and with everyone off loading from the many floors below you, it's quite understandable that you would face delays far more significant than that caused by figuring out that an elevator was not working or where the next illuminated EXIT sign was.

"What can I say other than you must have been significantly younger like you said, possibly 3-4 years old or extremely unfit?"

"Now, you're just being rude and obnoxious again, as well as reading-challenged. As I said, I was younger and far more physically fit than Jennings, and a 26 storey descent in CCW took in excess of 30 minutes. You really should try to control your snideness."

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Must I collect and quote the many "obnoxious and rude" gems that you've posted?

I've seen Barry's picture and while he is overweight, I have no idea about his conditioning. Considering what he went through, he held up remarkably well.

In the safety of your anonymity, you can pretend to be an olympic athlete if you wish. Who knows the truth of the matter.

"And what Michael Hess account might that be?
Source please!"

"If your post wasn't so rude and obnoxious, I might be inclined to do your homework for you, but in light of your behaviour, I'll just go back to ignoring you."

Too funny.

I translate that as you have no source and since I called your bluff you are attempting an escape using bluster.

MM

 

[SDC]

Any luck constructing a positive narrative, yet, Miragememories? I look forward to learning what you think actually did happen.

 

[eeyore1954]

Originally Posted by LashL
"What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"

MM's reply

Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11.

So the scientists at NIST are willing to coverup the fact that there were explosions in WTC 7 before the collapses.

MM says

Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony.

How do you know the testimony Barry Jennings gave to NIST is not different than what was gotten by Loose Change.
you do not know what testimony they got from Hess. but didn't he say they left when the lights went out? I do not know this for certain. Which was right after the first collapse.
NIST also has to base their timeline on information they have from others about when the OEM was evacuated. Around 9:30 or so. Based upon this it is very likely if Jennings got to the OEM found it locked , went down to get police to go up and unlock it for him it was close to 9:45. Were in the OEM for a while , etc. It is based upon all of this information that NIST must base their timeline.

I would suggest to Dylan Avery if he really is interested in the truth he should seek out other witnesses who were in the OEM/OEC find out when they evacuated and see how that affects the validity of the timeline given by Mr Jennings. But instead it appears to me that as soon as Dylan Avery finds a witness he is able to get to agree with his beliefs he doesn't want to go further.

 

[Miragememories]

""What reason does NIST have to misrepresent Jennings and Hess?"

"Barry Jennings provided testimony that if NIST were to accept as valid,
they would have a problem.

A big problem.

Barry Jenning's testimony undermines NIST's working theory of what occurred at WTC7 on 9/11."

" So the scientists at NIST are willing to coverup the fact that there were explosions in WTC 7 before the collapses."

I have no idea who at NIST interviewed those eyewitnesses.

"Having read the distortion and dishonesty NIST applied to the Barry Jenning's testimony, I have no reason to believe they behaved any differently with Michael Hess's testimony."

"How do you know the testimony Barry Jennings gave to NIST is not different than what was gotten by Loose Change."

Barry Jennings gave an interview to News 7 on 9/11.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by News 12.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by the 911 Commission.
On an unknown date he was interviewed by NIST.
In mid2007 he gave an interview to Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas.
In February 2008 he gave an interview to the BBC.

In none of the publicly available interviews (3), has Barry wavered on the
critical aspects of his story.

"you do not know what testimony they got from Hess. but didn't he say they left when the lights went out?"

No he did not.

He said he left after someone on the phone instructed him to.

"I do not know this for certain. Which was right after the first collapse."

That is pure conjecture on NIST's part.

Barry Jennings insists that the first collapse occurred sometime after he returned to the 8th floor.

"NIST also has to base their timeline on information they have from others about when the OEM was evacuated. Around 9:30 or so."

Barry Jennings said that he and Michael Hess arrived at WTC7 before the 2nd crash at 0903.

NIST said that most of WTC7 was already evacuated before the 2nd crash at 0903.

The 911 Commission said the the OEM EOC evacuation order came around 0930.

The NIST said the the OEM EOC evacuation order came around 0944.

OEM Commissioner John Odermatt, said that after the first plane hit the WTC, he left only two staffers at the command center.

"Based upon this it is very likely if Jennings got to the OEM found it locked , went down to get police to go up and unlock it for him it was close to 9:45. Were in the OEM for a while , etc. It is based upon all of this information that NIST must base their timeline."

Barry Jennings said that when he and Michael Hess first arrived at WTC7, "there were police all in the lobby..They showed me the way to the elevator."

Then, very soon after, having found the EOC was locked, Jennings and Hess returned to the WTC7 ground floor lobby, yet Jennings didn't indicate any dramatic change in activity, which would be quite odd if the 2nd crash had occurred during that brief interval.

NYPD and WTC7 Security simply escorted them back up to the 23rd floor EOC and unlocked that facility.

This suggests to me that they must have left in the freight elevator (2nd trip) just before the second plane struck.

If as NIST insists, they arrived much later (after 0944), they would have been well aware, given their close proximity, that WTC2 had been struck, and that the escalating situation was far more than the originally suspected single Cessna crash event.

But according to Barry Jenning's statement, they didn't know this until after they got to the WTC7.

MM

 

[MaGZ]

The Michael Hess interview with UPN news after his rescue from WTC 7.

http://911blogger.com/node/10425

 

[Kent1]

The Michael Hess interview with UPN news after his rescue from WTC 7.

http://911blogger.com/node/10425

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. An hour and a half from 11:58.57 (interview time) puts the time at 10:28 the exact minute of the WTC collapse.