Barred from entry to the UK

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

I get most of those but... Michael Savage? Really? I don't like the guy at all, but he is so extreme that he warrants being banned outright from a country? Not quite sure I see that.

 

[applecorped]

Rush is next!!!

 

[dudalb]

For encouraging violent acts, yes. For encouraging hatred? Well, the point of speech is to have an effect on other people.

Speech which doesn't affect others is pointless.


So why were the Nazis successful? Was it because their type of speech was not banned? Or was it because they banned opposing voices, both explicitly and implicitly via threats of violence?


Anyone wanna learn from history? If you go read Freakonomics, you'll see the story of a reporter who helped destroy the net effect of the KKK by helping tout, and making fun of, their positions. Thus it turned into little more than a social club. (Something some idiots in recent days are trying to reverse, by the way, with talk of attempted bans.)

How do I get off this subgenius world? Sheesh.

I think quite few people would say you are really,really, off the mark with your descripiton of the KKK as having devolved to a "Social Club".

 

[godless dave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8033319.stm

Hatemongers go home.

Is it right to ban people from a country on the grounds they espouse/promote unpopular views?

It's not the popularity of the views that's the issue.

 

[dudalb]

I get most of those but... Michael Savage? Really? I don't like the guy at all, but he is so extreme that he warrants being banned outright from a country? Not quite sure I see that.

Savage is beneath contempt, but banning him from entry into the UK is a bit much.
And it will give him the chance to play the Matry for free speech, something I hate giving the likes of Savage grounds to do.

 

[kallsop]

How many hateful Islamic preachers are on the list? The UK is a lost cause, death by multiculturalism.

 

[applecorped]

"I want to sue the British home secretary for defamation," he said, "for linking me up with murderers because of my opinions, my writings, my speaking – none of which have advocated any violence, ever." - Savage

 

[dudalb]

"I want to sue the British home secretary for defamation," he said, "for linking me up with murderers because of my opinions, my writings, my speaking – none of which have advocated any violence, ever." - Savage

Savage is careful not to advocate violence, but he sure as hell implies that all Moselms in the US are secret Al Quida supporters. He is a Hate Monger who knows just how far he can go without breaking the law or..more important...scaring away the advertisers.

 

[Alareth]

I think quite few people would say you are really,really, off the mark with your descripiton of the KKK as having devolved to a "Social Club".

Quite the opposite really. It was formed as a social club. The fact that all the original members were racist bigots that took the ball and ran with it was coincidence.

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Savage is beneath contempt, but banning him from entry into the UK is a bit much.
And it will give him the chance to play the Matry for free speech, something I hate giving the likes of Savage grounds to do.

Yup... it just struck me as a bizarre choice of someone to ban from a country. I didn't figure anyone in Britain knew who the guy is, let alone that anyone finds him important enough to ban. I'm a little curious how he ended up on the list.

 

[Freddy]

Yup... it just struck me as a bizarre choice of someone to ban from a country. I didn't figure anyone in Britain knew who the guy is, let alone that anyone finds him important enough to ban. I'm a little curious how he ended up on the list.

Yeah, and he also didn't even try to enter the country.

 

[luchog]

Seems to me that banning people who would be considered criminals in the UK is perfectly reasonable. If they went there, the UK would just end up imprisoning them and causing a diplomatic incident.

I dunno. Do you really think anyone here would mind very much if the UK threw Phelps and his inbred offshoots into the slammer for a while?

 

[Lonewulf]

How many hateful Islamic preachers are on the list? The UK is a lost cause, death by multiculturalism.

Yeap, that's what makes the U.S. so great. We don't allow anyone from other cultures, and we prevent anyone with views we don't like from having any say. We also dictate what religious views they should or should not have. This makes us so strong.

Yay for monoculturalist America! **** all the other cultures, they're obviously all lesser than us.

 

[brodski]

How many hateful Islamic preachers are on the list? The UK is a lost cause, death by multiculturalism.

By my count 8 of the named 16 are Muslims. There have also been recent deportations of (non British National) Muslim clerics for glorifying terrorism or incitement to religious or racial hatred. So, what's your point again?

 

[Lonewulf]

The thing is, the "death by multiculturalism" implies one of two things:

1) That the U.S. is a monoculture, and has no influence from immigrants, past or present, and is superior in this fashion.

2) That "multiculturalism" is just like "Political Correctness", a word bandied about meaninglessly because, of course, it was only recently that being an outright racist prick (or prick in general) actually had social consequences.

 

[Darat]

For encouraging violent acts, yes. For encouraging hatred? Well, the point of speech is to have an effect on other people.

Speech which doesn't affect others is pointless.


So why were the Nazis successful? Was it because their type of speech was not banned? Or was it because they banned opposing voices, both explicitly and implicitly via threats of violence?


Anyone wanna learn from history? If you go read Freakonomics, you'll see the story of a reporter who helped destroy the net effect of the KKK by helping tout, and making fun of, their positions. Thus it turned into little more than a social club. (Something some idiots in recent days are trying to reverse, by the way, with talk of attempted bans.)

How do I get off this subgenius world? Sheesh.

If they were Brits living in this country I think there would be more concern but these are foreigners wanting to come into the country so have no rights here.

 

[Darat]

"I want to sue the British home secretary for defamation," he said, "for linking me up with murderers because of my opinions, my writings, my speaking – none of which have advocated any violence, ever." - Savage

Yup... it just struck me as a bizarre choice of someone to ban from a country. I didn't figure anyone in Britain knew who the guy is, let alone that anyone finds him important enough to ban. I'm a little curious how he ended up on the list.

Yeah, and he also didn't even try to enter the country.

I agree with all of that - but then I listened to some of his stuff yesterday and my opinion changed.

He's nasty and is a horrible, vile person so I'm glad he can't come to my country and secondly we only have his word that he hasn't tried to come to the UK and given that he will say anything, no matter how untrue or dishonest, I wouldn't trust him if he said it was raining outside without independent verification.

Slightly more serious, I would like to know precisely what it was that he said (that the government based their decision on) because from what I heard he is just as I describe above and that shouldn't be a reason to automatically exclude him from visiting the UK.

 

[Darat]

By my count 8 of the named 16 are Muslims. There have also been recent deportations of (non British National) Muslim clerics for glorifying terrorism or incitement to religious or racial hatred. So, what's your point again?

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.

 

[Matthew Best]

I never heard of Michael Savage before today, and I asked my wife about him (she's American) and she's never heard of him either. So I speak from total ignorance when it comes to him in particular, but as far as I know there's no universal right to come to the UK. In fact, I'm fairly sure people are turned away every single day. These people are lucky enough to have been informed in advance that they will be turned away, thus saving them the expense of plane tickets etc.

The most interesting thing about the list is how short it is.

 

[richardm]

as far as I know there's no universal right to come to the UK.

That's right. But specifically his whine is not that he's barred from coming, but that "To link me up with skinheads who are killing people in Russia, to put me in league with Hamas murderers who kill people on buses is defamation".

So I think his argument is that he's allowed to say what he likes about anyone, but we all have to be nice to him. Or something. I don't really care what he argues, to be honest.