Baleen Bliss

[leonAzul]

In another thread, the following comment was made:

My personal view is that if we let the whale population recover, their role as iron concentrators and ocean fertilizers will not have to be outsourced. We will observe higher ocean productivities, and the ocean will start taking up much more carbon that at the present. There will be no chalk deposits in 100M years, though.

I would like to know more about the evidence that contributed to this opinion.

This is not intended to put Megalodon on the spot, but rather to improve my own ignorance.

There are more than enough emotional appeals to save the whales; I would like to hear some evidenced-based arguments for their conservation.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Maybe this?

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/06/14/rspb.2010.0863

 

[manofthesea]

I think the OP stated baleen as opposed to toothed whales. But that is a great and informative link. Maybe he meant whales in general though...

Cheers.

 

[ginjawarrior]

http://utas.academia.edu/AndrewBowi...lization_by_baleen_whales_and_Antarctic_krill

I kinda skipped over the title to the quote by megaladon but a quick google found that link

 

[Dinwar]

I do know that phytoplankton reproduce incredibly rapidly--it's why the oceans have a much smaller amount of biomass at the first trophic level (relatively speaking) than land ecosystems do. There's not as much biomass at any given time, but the turnover rate is astronomical so it pulls in a huge amount of resources. When you start putting that biomass into cetaceans it'll sequester a lot of it, certainly (and not just in the whales--there are many species that live off whales, including whole ecosystems that have evolved to feed on dead whale carcasses). I haven't run the numbers, but it's an interesting thought.

 

[leonAzul]

I think the OP stated baleen as opposed to toothed whales. But that is a great and informative link. Maybe he meant whales in general though...

Cheers.

I did mean all whales; the title was just meant to be catchy, not definitive.

 

[leonAzul]

Maybe this?

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/06/14/rspb.2010.0863

Thank you, that's the sort of thing I had in mind. This will give me a better idea for further research.

 

[Mark6]

In another thread, the following comment was made:



I would like to know more about the evidence that contributed to this opinion.

This is not intended to put Megalodon on the spot, but rather to improve my own ignorance.

I am sure Megalodon has a sweet spot for whales...

 

[leonAzul]

http://utas.academia.edu/AndrewBowi...lization_by_baleen_whales_and_Antarctic_krill

I kinda skipped over the title to the quote by megaladon but a quick google found that link

And another good cite.

It looks like I have some reading to do in order to better understand the connection between iron and carbon sequestration.

Thanks.

 

[leonAzul]

I am sure Megalodon has a sweet spot for whales...

With a screen name like "Megalodon" I would imagine so.

 

[Megalodon]

Yeah, Smetacek's works, as well as some conversations with him, convinced me that one of the reasons we're in such a deep hole is the depletion of the ocean from whales. In a different way, the general overfishing is also negatively affecting the carbon transfer to the deep.

Of course, not only whales act as iron concentrators and ocean fertilizers, when they die some tonnes of carbon are sequestered for a couple of millenia (at least).

And yes, I have a fondness for all things wet

 

[I Ratant]

We've sent lots of iron to the bottom of the sea... Around Jutland, Guadalcanal, the Murmansk route, Truk,...
What more can we do to help the whales?

 

[leonAzul]

We've sent lots of iron to the bottom of the sea... Around Jutland, Guadalcanal, the Murmansk route, Truk,...
What more can we do to help the whales?

Stop picking on them!

Sorry, obvious joke is obvious.

 

[leonAzul]

Yeah, Smetacek's works, as well as some conversations with him, convinced me that one of the reasons we're in such a deep hole is the depletion of the ocean from whales. In a different way, the general overfishing is also negatively affecting the carbon transfer to the deep.

Of course, not only [do] whales act as iron concentrators and ocean fertilizers, when they die some tonnes of carbon are sequestered for a couple of millen[n]ia (at least).

And yes, I have a fondness for all things wet

Please forgive the redactions.

Thanks, that already clarifies part of why the metabolism of whales is significant to carbon sequestration, and where.

 

[Megalodon]

Please forgive the redactions.

No problem, I'm used to insufferable pedants

Thanks, that already clarifies part of why the metabolism of whales is significant to carbon sequestration, and where.

Actually any gigantic heterotrophic organism would do more or less the same thing. Of course, at this time and place, that's whales. There is a big advantage if it happens in the Southern Ocean, because of the prevalence of water with high nutrients but a severe iron limitation. That is also why you find whales there: high nutrients lead to a healthy food-web able to sustain giant top predators.

As for what to do, it would help if the iron we throw at the ocean was not in the general shape of pointy sticks, and specially if we didn't retrieve those with whales stuck to them.

It would also help to stop the japanese scientific research on the perfect whale sandwich.

 

[leonAzul]

No problem, I'm used to insufferable pedants

Hey, that's not fair; I resemble that remark.

Actually any gigantic heterotrophic organism would do more or less the same thing. Of course, at this time and place, that's whales. There is a big advantage if it happens in the Southern Ocean, because of the prevalence of water with high nutrients but a severe iron limitation. That is also why you find whales there: high nutrients lead to a healthy food-web able to sustain giant top predators.

I still think it's kind of a neat trick that it's OK for whales to poop where they eat.

As for what to do, it would help if the iron we throw at the ocean was not in the general shape of pointy sticks, and specially if we didn't retrieve those with whales stuck to them.

It would also help to stop the japanese scientific research on the perfect whale sandwich.

Drifting with that thought, I also think there is a great opportunity to develop technology for industrial waste recycling. Humans have been doing this with biological waste for millennia. Why is it so difficult to see the advantages, both ecological and economical, of doing this with chemical waste as well? To date, almost all efforts are aimed at "scrubbing" the effluent which just results in more garbage to be dealt with instead of transforming it into something re-usable.

 

[Dinwar]

Drifting with that thought, I also think there is a great opportunity to develop technology for industrial waste recycling. Humans have been doing this with biological waste for millennia. Why is it so difficult to see the advantages, both ecological and economical, of doing this with chemical waste as well? To date, almost all efforts are aimed at "scrubbing" the effluent which just results in more garbage to be dealt with instead of transforming it into something re-usable.

Didn't something like this happen in the Great Lakes a few years ago? If I recall correctly it was specifically phosphates that they'd removed too much of, and the ecology took a dive (phosphorus being a rather critical component of chordate skeletons). A bunch of industries said "Hey, we know where you can get phosphate REALLY REALLY cheap!"

On the human side, I used to sample groundwater at a PVC plant that did this. The plant manager found out that one of his waste products was used in another process. He made a deal with another factory, and suddenly that plant had no more of those minor spills that had previously plagued it.