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Bad Murder Cases

bignickel said:
He wasn't supposed to be released upon the overturning of his conviction,
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Please forgive my naivety regarding legal processes, but I've always thought that that's exactly what is supposed to happen when people have their convictions overturned.

How is that not the case here? I had thought that when a conviction is overturned, the state can have another go at defendant... but they just can't leave him in prison while they spend umpteen years not bothering to put a case together to go to trial. Surely that's on the state to get their act together to go to trial again?
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Just guessing, but I think that with certain crimes (e.g. murder) the defendant is held in custody until trial, unless they can prove they are not a risk to public safety. (This differs from more minor crimes, such as theft, where the default is to release the prisoner on bail, unless the prosecution can prove there IS a risk.)

With this particular individual, being a murder case, the default is to hold them in custody. (Its just taking longer to bring the case to trial.)

Remember, the defendant was not found "innocent" or "not guilty" (however you want to state it)... his conviction was thrown out, which means he'd be held as any other defendant in an upcoming trial for murder.
 
The West Memphis Three were held until an Allford please allowed them to be released.
I don't know if they made the right call or not but cannot blame them for just wanting them to get out of jail.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
That sounds pretty disturbing. I hope it is resolved on appeal, and that Pam, Betsy's friend. Is prosecuted for the crime. I seriously doubt that will ever happen, though, so it appears likely that she got away with murdering her friend.
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No it doesn't appear likely she got away with murder. There are fewer reasons to believe Pam Hupp killed Betsy Faria than there are to believe Russ Faria killed her.

So I find it quite ironic to see how readily people are willing to condemn Pam Hupp while at the same time decrying the verdict against Russ Furia as being unfair and unsubstantiated.
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lane99 said:
No it doesn't appear likely she got away with murder. There are fewer reasons to believe Pam Hupp killed Betsy Faria than there are to believe Russ Faria killed her.

So I find it quite ironic to see how readily people are willing to condemn Pam Hupp while at the same time decrying the verdict against Russ Furia as being unfair and unsubstantiated.
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Well, I must admit that the only things I've read about the case were in the link posted above, so I'm willing to consider a different view. Do you have any links to information that you feel makes a stronger case against Russ and exonerates Pam?
 
lane99 said:
No it doesn't appear likely she got away with murder. There are fewer reasons to believe Pam Hupp killed Betsy Faria than there are to believe Russ Faria killed her.

So I find it quite ironic to see how readily people are willing to condemn Pam Hupp while at the same time decrying the verdict against Russ Furia as being unfair and unsubstantiated.
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I don't know if her guilt can be proven but she has motive (the insurance settlement) and she was there at the right time frame which all evidence points to him not being able to be there at the time. It is highly suggestive of her guilt.
 
bignickel said:
Please forgive my naivety regarding legal processes, but I've always thought that that's exactly what is supposed to happen when people have their convictions overturned.

How is that not the case here? I had thought that when a conviction is overturned, the state can have another go at defendant... but they just can't leave him in prison while they spend umpteen years not bothering to put a case together to go to trial. Surely that's on the state to get their act together to go to trial again?
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No, for example, if there is a mistrial in a murder case, the accused is held pending the next trial. In this case, the conviction was overturned on a technicality, meaning that the state must re-try the accused, and the accused will be held until the trial takes place. In this case, the accused did not assert his right to a speedy trial, and the prosecution allowed it (quite possibly purposely) to be delayed for years.

Quite frankly, while it is always disturbing to see the wheels of justice not running smoothly, I don't really think that this man's case is a tragedy, because, as I mentioned in my previous post, there is no reason to think that the second jury wouldn't have also found him guilty. The conviction was not overturned due to any issues with evidence, just on the technicality of a juror being improperly dismissed due to issues with capital punishment.

I'm not saying that it's okay for the state to do this, but I just don't think it falls under the category of this thread's meaning of "Bad Murder Cases."
 
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Desert Fox said:
...she has motive (the insurance settlement) and she was there at the right time frame...
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Russ Faria was there at the right time frame, too. So that's a wash. The time of death had not been clearly established by either the prosecution or the defense.

As for motive, if it was insurance proceeds, then Russ Faria had a much clearer and more direct motive than Pam Hupp for the murder. In fact, if anything, Pam Hupp had a motive for it NOT TO HAPPEN when it did.

The victim was in the process of removing Russ Faria from being the beneficiary of her insurance policies. But she was murdered before she had time to write him out of all the policies. If she had lived even a few more days, Pam Hupp would have stood to gain considerably more money.

And Russ Faria would have stood to lose considerably more.
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lane99 said:
Russ Faria was there at the right time frame, too. So that's a wash. The time of death had not been clearly established by either the prosecution or the defense.

As for motive, if it was insurance proceeds, then Russ Faria had a much clearer and more direct motive than Pam Hupp for the murder. In fact, if anything, Pam Hupp had a motive for it NOT TO HAPPEN when it did.

The victim was in the process of removing Russ Faria from being the beneficiary of her insurance policies. But she was murdered before she had time to write him out of all the policies. If she had lived even a few more days, Pam Hupp would have stood to gain considerably more money.

And Russ Faria would have stood to lose considerably more.
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According to the article I posted
She dropped Betsy off sometime around 7, the first missed phone call was around 7:20, and emergency responders arrived after 9:40. They noted signs that Betsy had been dead for some time (as in 2-2 1/2 hours). So Pam was at the crime scene at the right time. I've got a lot of clients in prison who were told that was plenty to connect them to a murder.

Supporting this
I'm in full agreement. We know that Betsy was murdered after 7:00 PM as she talked to her daughter on the phone at that time. The other suspect identified by the defense was Betsy's friend Hupp. Hupp said she was with Betsy until about 7:25.
Russ Faria's 4 alibi witnesses have him with them up until about 8:45. Russ stopped at an Arbys drive through twenty miles from home at 9:06 and he called 911 at 9:40. A Medic said that her body was cold and stiff at 9:50. The stiff description leads me to think that rigor mortis had begun. The few Internet sources I've read says that this process begins between 2 hours to 6 hours post mortem. Which means it would have been impossible for Russ to murder his wife after he arrived home.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
No, he wasn't.
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Found the NBC Nightline show and it seems to agree with a death a few hours (something 2 hours) before as well.
Surprised, since he played D&D with his friends, that they have not brought out the Satanist Sacrifice angle.
 
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Desert Fox said:
I wanted to also add that Ms Hupp is being sued by Ms Faria's kids
Link
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I thought this was amusing from the comments

boy this woman really chooses some winners, a husband who kills her and a best friend who steals the insurance money intended for her daughters.
 
Is this only about cases that are currently under review, or are we including cases where the wrongfully convicted person has already been exonerated?

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Is this only about cases that are currently under review, or are we including cases where the wrongfully convicted person has already been exonerated?

Rolfe.
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Just discussing so could be anything
Started at a "Do not blow gasket on cases that do not belong with AK/RS"
 
There's a whole list of murder cases in England that have been reversed on appeal, some after a long time and/or many tries at it.

Sion Jenkins
Barry George
Stefan Kiszko
Paul Esslemont
Sally Clark
Angela Cannings
Donna Anthony
(These last three not being murders at all of course)

These are the ones that come right off the top of my head. Not mentioning the bogus IRA terrorist convictions either. I'm sure others will be able to add more. I think it is to England's credit that so many have actually been overturned, even though the road to get there was long and tortuous. (Despite Lord Denning's infamous remarks.)

I'm only familiar with one in Scotland recently, and that was David Asbury.

I'll be starting a separate thread soon into the application for a new appeal against Abdelbaset al-Megrahi's conviction for the Pan Am 103 bombing. That's going to be interesting because a re-analysis of the original forensic evidence (coughs modestly) has shown Megrahi to be completely innocent. The police know this, and some of them appear to acknowledge it. However the legal establishment has signalled its firm intention to block the appeal if it possibly can.

Rolfe.
 
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There have been a couple of cases of nurses convicted of murder based seemingly only on a cluster of deaths when they are around, and a misunderstanding of the likelihood of such clusters happening innocently.

Lucia de Berk served 7 years before she was exonerated on 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk

And Colin Norris, whose case is being re examined by the CCRC. He was convicted in 2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Norris
 
I lost a post about that when IE got hiccups. Horrendous.

If people remember nothing else, remember that anyone has only a one in (?12?) million chance of winning the lottery. And yet, nearly every week, someone wins the lottery.

Rolfe.
 
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