Bad ideas in war

[jimbob]

Well, it's probably been said before, but here's a bad idea in war: ignoring all past knowledge of how things work. For example, thinking that air attacks alone will make a country give up. Well, ask the Brits if they gave up because of the Blitz.

Or indeed the Germans with far worse bombing.

And horrible as the attacks on Kyiv are, they are nowhere near that level, so yes.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Well, it's probably been said before, but here's a bad idea in war: ignoring all past knowledge of how things work. For example, thinking that air attacks alone will make a country give up. Well, ask the Brits if they gave up because of the Blitz.

They don't make you give up but they can severely degrade your ability to fight as part of an overall strategy.
As for air attacks alone, if they are the only way to hit the enemy then they are what you go with until you can do something else as well.

Yes, I know it's fashionable at the moment to say the bombing campaign on Germany was a waste of time.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I was talking about Trump in Iran, not about Ukraine or WW2. Both of those last cases actually have boots on the ground. Sorry for not making that clearer.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Sorry, yes , it's a useless waste of effort.
It worked in far flung regions of the Empire in the 20s and 30s.
An RAF biplane would drop a few little bombs on an unruly warlord as a warning to behave and reminder that worse things could happen.
It's not going to subdue a country the size of Iran.

 

[Wudang]

My first experience shooting a 'real' rifle, rather than an air rifle was with a .22 single shot Lee Enfield No.8 rifle. We used them on the shooting team at the Sea Cadets.

My only experience with a Lee Enfield was at a D-Day commemoration event in Southsea late 80's. A guy had a Lee Enfield training rifle with a spring-loaded metal plate sticking out the butt. You had to pull the rifle against your shoulder hard before the trigger would work. It was to avoid shoulder injuries from recoil by pre-training recruits to brace the butt. Clever idea I thought.

 

[theprestige]

Ukraine has successfully routed Russian positions using nothing but airborne attacks.

Ukraine also seems to be methodically gutting Moscow's ability to wage war, at all levels, by strategic bombing.

 

[Andy_Ross]

My only experience with a Lee Enfield was at a D-Day commemoration event in Southsea late 80's. A guy had a Lee Enfield training rifle with a spring-loaded metal plate sticking out the butt. You had to pull the rifle against your shoulder hard before the trigger would work. It was to avoid shoulder injuries from recoil by pre-training recruits to brace the butt. Clever idea I thought.

I've never seen anything like that.
Are you sure it wasn't supposed to be a safety device like a grip safety on a Luger or 1911?

 

[jimbob]

They don't make you give up but they can severely degrade your ability to fight as part of an overall strategy.
As for air attacks alone, if they are the only way to hit the enemy then they are what you go with until you can do something else as well.

This next bit

Yes, I know it's fashionable at the moment to say the bombing campaign on Germany was a waste of time.

I read the Affluent Society and disagreed with Galbraith's assessment (from the USAAF Strategic Bombing Survey, IIRC) that because dropping every tonne of explosives cost the USAAF more than it cost Germany it was ineffective. Because that didn't account for the difference in available resources. Nor for the fact that the joint bombing campaign was key in destroying the Luftwaffe and enabling Overlord. As well as harming German production and transport.

To say nothing of the resources that the campaign kept tied down in Germany rather than on the Eastern or Western fronts.

 

[jimbob]

Ukraine has successfully routed Russian positions using nothing but airborne attacks.

Ukraine also seems to be methodically gutting Moscow's ability to wage war, at all levels, by strategic bombing.

Yes, but if Ukraine was trying to defeat Russia by attacking Moscow residential areas with ballistic missiles, it would probably have the opposite effect.

Interdiction strike and tactical use is quite different.

 

[Wudang]

I've never seen anything like that.
Are you sure it wasn't supposed to be a safety device like a grip safety on a Luger or 1911?

View attachment 76137

I would have sworn it was Lee Enfield but memory* being what it is..... The nearest I can find online is a Swift Training Rifle B-Series. Perhaps my memory is thinking WWII UK rilfe -> Lee Enfield.

The British WW2 Swift training rifles in four types, and the Canadian Long Branch manufactured equivalent

Historic Arms Resource Centre facility for British and Commonwealth Enfield and other Miniature calibre training and small-bore TARGET RIFLES (BSA- Birmingham Small Arms Co.), conversion units and accessories with representation of other nations' training rifles, plus Postal League competitions...

www.rifleman.org.uk

*As I've said: my memory is so bad I'm glad my balls are in a bag so I don't forget them.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I would have sworn it was Lee Enfield but memory* being what it is..... The nearest I can find online is a Swift Training Rifle B-Series. Perhaps my memory is thinking WWII UK rilfe -> Lee Enfield.

The British WW2 Swift training rifles in four types, and the Canadian Long Branch manufactured equivalent

Historic Arms Resource Centre facility for British and Commonwealth Enfield and other Miniature calibre training and small-bore TARGET RIFLES (BSA- Birmingham Small Arms Co.), conversion units and accessories with representation of other nations' training rifles, plus Postal League competitions...

www.rifleman.org.uk

*As I've said: my memory is so bad I'm glad my balls are in a bag so I don't forget them.

This?

 

[Wudang]

This?

God knows. The more I think about it the less clear the actual rifle is. I mainly remember being impressed by the idea. I think my brain just filled in Lee Enfield as the default British army rifle.

 

[Trebuchet]

All you guys with your silly gunpowder weapons. Sheesh.
I've used REAL siege weapons, not just from the 12th century CE but from the first century. BCE!

 

[Wudang]

All you guys with your silly gunpowder weapons. Sheesh.
I've used REAL siege weapons, not just from the 12th century CE but from the first century. BCE!

Rock on dude!

 

[jimbob]

All you guys with your silly gunpowder weapons. Sheesh.
I've used REAL siege weapons, not just from the 12th century CE but from the first century. BCE!

I knew you said you were old in the Trivia quiz thread

I'm ducking old!

ETA: I am SO not fixing that typo!

I didn't know you were that old

 

[steenkh]

From the discussions here I get that the use of guns is a bad idea in war.

 

[Andy_Ross]

From the discussions here I get that the use of guns is a bad idea in war.

depends where you are standing.

 

[steenkh]

depends where you are standing.

You mean which end you are holding?

 

[jimbob]

From the discussions here I get that the use of guns is a bad idea in war.

If they have too much recoil or are not centred then yes.


That YakB-12.7 gun apparently has a rate of fire of 4000 to 5000 rounds.per minute. So roughly the impulse of about 8-10 M2 Brownings but with the additional gyroscopic effect of the spinning barrels.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I knew you said you were old in the Trivia quiz thread

I didn't know you were that old

Getting old is very curable.