stamenflicker said:
How can you say that? Do you mean a literal 6 day creation? I only ask because the pattern of creation begins with light, which as I understand it, is a necessary component of matter. Light is even created before suns and moons in the Genesis myth. I find that a highly advanced notion given the tendency of other cultures to worship these celestial bodies.
Second, the pattern in Genesis somewhat follows that of the evolution of life as I understand it.
Flick
Hey Flick, Hans did a great job but I was just going to add one thing, a (rather lengthy) response I had to
Hugh Ross's take on the creation sequence and how it jives with science. I wrote it several years ago and I'm not sure if all the links still work nor have I edited it for grammar or spelling. If you have any questions about it, please post 'em and I'll see if I can answer them.
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Reasons: 1.Creation, by fiat miracle, of the entire
physical universe (space-time dimensions, matter,
energy, galaxies, stars, planets, etc.)
Clearly the problem with this is that if star
formation is part of the creation process, then
creation must still be occuring knocking this
supposedly precise chronology off.
http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/95/44.html
The astronomical evidence is that galaxies, stars and
planets didn't just "pop" into existance by fiat. They
took time, developing through naturalistic processes
we see going on all around us.
Reasons: 2.planet Earth singled out for a sequence of
creation miracles. At its beginning, Earth is empty of
life and unfit for life; interplanetary debris and
Earth's primordial atmosphere prevent the light of the
sun, moon, and stars from reaching the planet's
surface
It is not until the 4th day and verse 14 that the Sun
Moon and Stars are created. Yet the sky, the light and
day and night had already been created in verses 3-8.
Current theory on the primordial earth was that it
didn't have an atmosphere and that the early Earth
atmosphere was oxygen free.
Reasons: 3.clearing of the interplanetary debris and
partial transformation of the earth's atmosphere so
that light from the heavenly bodies now penetrates to
the surface of Earth's ocean
By the time Oceans had formed, there had been several
million days and nights - with Sun, with Moon and with
Stars. Additionally, the Bible doesn't say that God
'made the heavenly bodies visible', it says that he
made them:
Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light
to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the
night. He also made the stars.
17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give
light on the earth,
18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate
light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening, and there was morning--the
fourth day.
This is of course after the creation of plants on the
3rd day.
Reasons: 4.formation of water vapor in the troposphere
under conditions that establish a stable water cycle
Gen 1:7 So God made the expanse and separated the
water under the expanse from the water above it. And
it was so.
A more scientific translation of the poetry than the
nutty "firmament" theory offered up by some
creationists. Since we're talking about a people who
didn't think plants were alive because they didn't
breath I'll go ahead and give this one to the ancients
and Ross.
5.formation of continental land masses and ocean
basins
Gen 1:9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be
gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And
it was so.
Another nice translation. The problem is this is, as
with star formation, an on going process. So is it
natural, or caused by God? My two favorite examples
for Young Earthers are: comparing the erosion of the
Appalacians and Rockys, and the age of the Hawaiian
Islands. It's clear the formation of the land and seas
is an ongoing process that apparently doesn't need
God's help.
6.production of plants on the continental land masses
Gen. 1:11 Then God said, "Let the land produce
vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land
that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their
various kinds." And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed
according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with
seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that
it was good.
13 And there was evening, and there was morning--the
third day.
Simply observing nature, the ancients could have
concluded that no plants means no plant eating
animals, so plants needed to come first. The problem
with Ross' theory is that it again doesn't match the
actual chronolgy.
Ross says 'plants' as though it were an all
encompassing thing. Genesis says, seed bearing and
fruit (flowering) plants. Let's look at what the
paleological records say.
**dead URL I'll find a replacement later **
- Between 500 and 400 million years ago, some algae
made the transition to land, becoming plants by
developing a series of adaptations to help them
survive out of the water.
- Stemmed, or vascular, plants appeared by 350 million
years ago, with forests soon following (300 million
years ago).
Stemmed plants appear after the appearance of
vertebrates in the ocean 500 million years ago,
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/vertintro.html
And tetrapods are already conquering the land by the
time stemmed plants and forests appear.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/tetrapods/tetrafr.html
By the time we get to the Jurassic period and the
appearance of the seed and flowering (fruit) plants
mentioned in Genesis, we see that the chronology is
way off
- Seed plants next evolved, with flowering plants
appearing around 140 million years ago.
To say that there is harmony between Genesis and
science on the appearance of plants is disingenuous at
best.
Reasons: 7.transformation of the atmosphere from
translucent to occasionally transparent. Sun, Moon,
planets, and stars now can be seen from the vantage
point of Earth's surface
I have seen no evidence of a long term translucentness
(ala Venus) to the atmosphere -- especially after the
Jurassic period.
Reasons: 8. production of swarms of small sea animals.
Once again the Chronology is off. As we saw above,
land plants don't develop until 350 million years ago.
But there are Pre-Cambrain marine animal fossils from
as far back as 540 million years ago.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vendian/ediacara.html
[take the highlighted links for more details.]
Reasons 9.creation of sea mammals and birds
Birds, starting in the Jurassic with Archaeopteryx,
150 million years ago. (edit - I know that evidence for other early pre-bird species has increased since I first wrote this)
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/birds/archaeopteryx.html
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/birds/birdfr.html
Whales Eocene Period, about 55 million years ago.
http://www.zoomwhales.com/subjects/whales/allabout/Evol.shtml
Reasons: 10.creation of three specialized kinds of
land mammals: a) short-legged land mammals, b)
long-legged land mammals that are easy to tame, and c)
long-legged land mammals that are difficult to
tame—all three specifically designed to cohabit with
humans
Once again we find an attempt to "scienceize" the
poetic language of Genesis.
Let's set aside for a moment when various
non-domesticated species developed and look at just
the domesticated. First this web site has information
on when animals (with the exception of Felix
domesticus - I guess they own a cat) were
domesticated.
http://asci.uvm.edu/bramley/DOMESTIC.html
Here's a graphic on horse evolution, showing the
"Eohippus" to have developed in the Eocene 55 million
years ago. Whereas the modern Equus isn't around until
5 million y.a.
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/fhc/Stratmap1.htm
Dogs and cats are defined by the Oligocene around 30
million years ago.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/carnivora/carnivorafr.html
Pigs also appear in the Oligocene, Early sheep appear
in the late Eocene 35 million y.a., with cows
appearing in the Miocene 15-20 million y.a.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/artio/artiofr.html
Once more Genesis doesn't line up neatly with what
paleontology shows us.
Reasons: 11.creation of the human species
Human evolution is one of the best documented
evolutionary transitions there are. (edit - though in Ross's/the Bible's chronology humans appearing last does fit. It's the creation assertion that makes this one fall flat.)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
