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"Back From Dead"

I'm just shocked to see it go from the CoSprings Gazette I wrapped after Christmas to the world in only a few days.
 
They did not return from the dead .. Dead is dead ..


I posted this in R&P

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163513

The dead baby also had a pulse ..

Dr. Martin:
"The baby was, it was basically limp, with a very slow heart rate."
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Tracy Hermanstorfer, 33, was getting prepped for childbirth at the hospital Thursday morning and her 37-year-old husband was by her side when she began to feel sleepy and laid back in her bed.
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I suspect someone botched the meds, and now they are playing CYA ...

The father is happy with " Godidit ", and the ( hospital's ) attorneys can relax ..
 
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This is a beautiful and emotionally moving event for the family involved. I suppose it could have emotional meaning for any of us if we want (or not) if we decide that we want to personally relate to the story. Why can't we just leave it at that and not try to drag some weird, nonexistent "paranormal" meaning out of it?
 
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I expect the lives of the child and the mother will be forever hence burdened with the "miracle" from all the devout.
The family should probably move and change their names.
Unless they want to cash in on the fame.
 
Maia said:
This is a beautiful and emotionally moving event for the family involved. I suppose it could have emotional meaning for any of us if we want (or not) if we decide that we want to personally relate to the story. Why can't we just leave it at that and not try to drag some weird, nonexistent "paranormal" meaning out of it?
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Yes, why can't we ?

However, the only reason we are discussing it, is because it is a headline story with a paranormal spin..

We are trying to show that there are alternate explanations for what happened besides Goddidit ..
 
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fls said:
Martin offered up a couple of plausible options.
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She did no such thing, she simply speculated. Her conclusion was:

"I don't have a great explanation," Martin said. "From my personal perspective, I'll take help wherever I can get it."

After running a battery of tests on Hermanstorfer, doctors still do not know what caused her cardiac arrest or what brought her back from the brink.

It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.
 
Rodney said:
She did no such thing, she simply speculated. Her conclusion was:

"I don't have a great explanation," Martin said. "From my personal perspective, I'll take help wherever I can get it."

After running a battery of tests on Hermanstorfer, doctors still do not know what caused her cardiac arrest or what brought her back from the brink.

It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.
Click to expand...

So which conclusion(s) would you draw from the above?

1. We don't know the cause, but it probably has a natural explanation.
2. We don't know the cause, and it's probably supernatural.
3. Something that rarely happens has a supernatural cause.
 
Let's reframe the question.
Had she been home in bed would she have died?
Probably.
She wasn't. She was in hospital with a whole bunch of trained people working to keep her and her baby alive.
Which they did.
Thy don't know what they did right- but they did a whole lot of things and something worked.
Great. I'm very pleased it worked out so well for everyone. I'm sure we all are.
 
Paul2 said:
So which conclusion(s) would you draw from the above?

1. We don't know the cause, but it probably has a natural explanation.
2. We don't know the cause, and it's probably supernatural.
3. Something that rarely happens has a supernatural cause.
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The conclusion I wouldn't draw is that there is nothing here to be explained.
 
Rodney said:
"Unfortunately, in most of these situations, despite the best efforts of the team, Mom is not able to be revived," Martin told "Good Morning America."
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Most but not all.

Our 11th child came into the world one month early via an emergency c-section nearly 10 years ago, after my wife was stricken with congestive heart failure. Luckily she had gone into the hospital to have her blood pressure checked and they kept her there because the reading was very high. Both survived, but it sure had the doctors hopping.

Had it happened at home no amount of religious faith would have helped her or my daughter. Thankfully, science prevailed.

Stupid me, I should have contacted the newspapers, I could have put quite the miraculous spin on the entire event.

RayG
 
I'd like to read the code report. I'm going to wildly speculate that she came right back following some Narcan. The 'got sleepy, then stopped breathing' sounds like someone got a bit of a heavy dose of something. That would affect the baby too, in pretty much the way that was reported.

A
 
Um, no. You're not actually dead until they declare you dead and cease efforts to revive you. If, after that, you just plain start breathing on your own, then we'll talk.
Doctors have been bringing people back from apparent death for quite awhile. It's not a miracle, its science.
 
What, exactly, is this thread about? It seems to be a happy story about people's lvies being saved, which because the doctor had no explanation for the recovery, has been given some sort of paranormal explanation. But what is the paranormal force in question? God is the most likely, I suppose, but the doctor also said the reason for the cardiac arrest was unknown too. Was that paranormal too?

The moral of this story is that the human body is still not fully understood, and sometimes odd things happen near religious holidays. I don't see what's paranormal about that.
 
The most annoying part is that Rodney won't come out and say WHY he chose to post the story at all, let alone why he posted it in this particular subforum. We're left with a woman and baby being saved by doctors. Good, that's what doctors are supposed to do, but so what? Why single out this instance of doctors saving lives?
 
Google ready

Vic Vega said:
Coltyn Hermanstorfer.


Poor kid...
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The parents are visionaries. They are assigning unique identifiers. You will be able to follow this kid with a simple Google search which will have a very high S/N.
 
Rodney said:
She did no such thing, she simply speculated. Her conclusion was:

"I don't have a great explanation," Martin said. "From my personal perspective, I'll take help wherever I can get it."

After running a battery of tests on Hermanstorfer, doctors still do not know what caused her cardiac arrest or what brought her back from the brink.

It's rare for a woman to suffer cardiac arrest during pregnancy and rarer still for both mother and baby to survive, Martin said.
Click to expand...

She specifically mentioned the possibility of relief of obstruction to blood flow with delivery of the baby, and relief from stresses specific to labour and delivery as possibilities. Other possibilities have already been brought up by others.

You didn't answer my question. What has this to do with general skepticism and the paranormal?

Linda
 
Skeptical Greg said:
They did not return from the dead .. Dead is dead ..


I posted this in R&P

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163513

The dead baby also had a pulse ..

Dr. Martin:





I suspect someone botched the meds, and now they are playing CYA ...

The father is happy with " Godidit ", and the ( hospital's ) attorneys can relax ..
Click to expand...

Andrew Wiggin said:
I'd like to read the code report. I'm going to wildly speculate that she came right back following some Narcan. The 'got sleepy, then stopped breathing' sounds like someone got a bit of a heavy dose of something. That would affect the baby too, in pretty much the way that was reported.

A
Click to expand...

I wondered about this as well. She receives the injection of a local anaesthetic and then she experiences cardiac arrest? This sounds suspiciously like a drug reaction or a medication error. You have to wonder why the doctor carefully avoids mentioning this. Fortunately for the doctor and the hospital, it happened to a credulous believer, so they get to avoid scrutiny. This reminds me very much of a story Rodney passed on earlier of a woman whose daughter's violin was stolen. When her 'friend' 'found' the violin, this friend was able to avoid suspicion by passing it off as the result of involving a 'psychic'.

Linda
 
fls said:
She specifically mentioned the possibility of relief of obstruction to blood flow with delivery of the baby, and relief from stresses specific to labour and delivery as possibilities. Other possibilities have already been brought up by others.
Click to expand...
There are unlimited possibilities, just no convincing explanation.

fls said:
You didn't answer my question. What has this to do with general skepticism and the paranormal?
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What does any issue discussed in this subforum have to do with the paranormal if, as most here believe, there is no such thing as the paranormal?
 
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