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Ayn Rand ?

Let's get away from the personal attacks. Unless I missed something, the only tenet of Objectivism I listed that has been criticized is the doctrine that sensory perception doesn't make mistakes. This, I grant you, is a topic that does need discussion. I tried to give a quick support for it. But it's only one of about 10 revolutionary ideas I cited. Is it the only thing that people demur from?
No, but it's the easiest to attack.

Isn't it much more contentful and pro-reason than what previous posts painted Objectivism as being?
I'll grant that.

I'll also grant that, by and large, people aren't attacking Ayn Rand's ideas so much as attacking other people's promotion/demotion of her ideas to the status of religious belief.
 
As a professional philosopher who's been an Objectivist for 48 years, I suggest we talk about the actual content of the philosophy. So far, the discussion has not considered what Objectivism holds.

Which tenets of Objectivism do antagonists want to oppose:

1. Existence exists, reality is real. There is no supernatural realm.

2. A thing is what it is; A is A. The law of causality is the law of identity applied to action: a thing can only do that which its identity gives it the potential to do.

3. Man is conscious. The primary cognitive contact with reality is via sensory perception. Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by the senses. The first and basic act of reason is concept-formation. A "concept" is "a mental integration of two or more units possessing the same distinguishing characteristic(s) with their particular measurements omitted." (Rand, Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, p. 13.)

4. The use of reason is volitional. The senses function automatically, but the process of concept-formation and thought is a matter of choice. The choice to think or not to think is man's basic free will.

5. Reason is man's only means of gaining conceptual knowledge and his only proper guide to action. Logic, "the art of non-contradictory identification," is the method of reasoning. Objectivity is the self-conscious, deliberate employment of logic.

6. The basis of values is the fact that living organisms have to act in order to survive. "It is only the concept of 'Life' that makes the concept of 'Value' possible." (Rand, Atlas Shrugged, p. 1013) One's life is one's ultimate value. Man's life qua man is the standard of moral evaluation. Rationality is man's basic virtue.

Those basics should be enough for now...

Actually, no. Rand wrote lots of other silly things beyond that, which have been discussed in this thread and form the basis of most of the criticism.

Interesting attempt to limit the discussion, though.
 
The *senses* are not the conclusion your intellect draws from what you see.

I'm not sure you can separate the interpretation and the signal being received in this case. The senses are not stand alone units that that simply receive data from the outside world. The sound waves hitting the ear and the light hitting the eye are meaningless until the decoding and interpreting are done. So if you can influence the interpretation, you can "fool" the senses. That's what magic tricks and optical illusions are all about.
 
I don't think anyone said anything about reason and feelings being magically separated,
HBinswanger is claiming one can think with pure reason. I don't believe that is a supportable premise because one cannot divorce reason from the innate processes in one's brain that influence reason.

nor did anyone claim some sense of morality is innate in us.
I am claiming it! The evidence supports this is the case. We are born with a mechanism that amounts to a moral mechanism which influences our thought processes including our reasoning.


I'll of course agree that when people say they're going with their "gut," what they're actually doing is a shortcut based on their innate morality and reasoning work they've already done in similar circumstances, and not accessing some special logic center located in their abdomen.
A lot of brain function occurs nearly instantaneously and subconsciously. This can be demonstrated with studies of brain damaged people.

Do you honestly advocate people making decisions emotionally, without employing conscious reason to them? Because that's where "crimes of passion" and really stupid relationship moves come from. I don't get the impression you actually WOULD advocate that, but it sounds to me like you're straw-manning Rand here when you would agree with her actual position on reason.
You don't understand what I'm saying, but then I haven't really elaborated much here. It's a false dichotomy to say one is either making an emotional decision or a reasoned decision.

One of my conclusions regarding philosophy is that philosophers, including Rand, developed their ideas amidst a paucity of information about the biology of the brain. Recent scientific discoveries about how the brain perceives, stores and regurgitates information need to be incorporated into philosophical theories. If you don't do that, you might as well be speculating about the nature of morality as if morality emanated from some magical place.
 
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D'oh! This should've read, "ISN'T" innate in us.

Carry on.
Oh.

Well you'd be surprised how many people are unaware morality in humans exists regardless of the impact of teaching/learning. We just had this go round in a recent thread where it was implied morality was a function of human advanced thought and no other living creatures could possibly have any moral reasoning. But the evidence of the evolution of morality can be seen in non-human primates and probably seen many other animals. The morality function of our 'reasoning' is clearly present in other species.
 
"Obviously the senses can be fooled, otherwise James Randi (and every other professional magician) would out of a job."

The *senses* are not the conclusion your intellect draws from what you see. The error is in the conclusion not in the *seeing*. The senses do not *interpret* only respond to the incident energy and automatic neural processing as they must.
This is where we are not on the same page. If you consider some of the more recent revelations about brain function, you'd find, as you say, that those 'senses' were indeed merely electrical impulses until they reach the brain where they are stored as already altered "interpretations".

Maybe you don't see interpretations as the way information is stored. Do you think we interpret the information after it is stored?

Where we don't seem to be connecting here is what amounts to this ideal "interpretation"? I suggest there is no such thing as I interpret you to be describing it. You can strive for the best critical thinking skills, and the best reasoning and rational thinking. I certainly do.

But if you don't recognize how the way the brain is organized, the way it deals with organizing that sensory input, with the innate, not-part-of-one's-learned-response, brain mechanism for determining moral conclusions, and so on, then your conclusions are going to be less than the best conclusions.
 
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Whatever you say. Tell us and prove why it won't work if you are so sure of yourself. Give some examples of a "laissez-faire"-lite economy.
This is such a no brainer it boggles the mind people still stick to their Libertarian fantasy.

How about just explaining the difference between regulating an industry that amounts to interfering and regulating an industry to prevent greedy thieving individuals from cheating and stealing.

Then explain how the laissez faire market forces should have prevented the orgy of playing Pass the Hot Potato for a profit with those under-collateralized sub-prime loans?

How are laissez faire market forces supposed to prevent the faking of assets large companies were assisting each other with by trading worthless assets for big bucks temporarily with each other so their books would look fat, then trading them back after the books had been examined by the credit raters or whoever else they needed to fool at the moment?



Who cares what Greenspan says? Religious people claim all the time that they are deeply religious, but as we all know, religion is largely fashionable and hardly anyone lives their day-to-day lives in a religious manner. Just because Greenspan says he is an objectivist does not mean his actions confirm this. I presented evidence for this several posts back. If you disagree, please refute the points that I made.
You keep going on and on with this straw man. Greenspan denounced Rand specifically because he believed the economy tanking refuted her ideas. Those were his words. If you think he was wrong, that is your opinion.

I merely pointed out Greenspan changed his mind. I've never bought all of Rand's beliefs. Greenspan apparently agrees with me in this case. You don't have to agree. Your opinion has nothing to do with what I said about Greenspan's change of heart about Rand.
 
I'll also grant that, by and large, people aren't attacking Ayn Rand's ideas so much as attacking other people's promotion/demotion of her ideas to the status of religious belief.
Some of her extremist positions deserve to be attacked. But that doesn't mean she didn't have intelligent interesting points of view.
 
How about just explaining the difference between regulating an industry that amounts to interfering and regulating an industry to prevent greedy thieving individuals from cheating and stealing.

Sure. Under laissez-faire, there are no preventive laws. That means no regulation--zero--only punishment for violations of the law that have occurred (or where there is a "clear and present danger"). It's "management by results," so to speak.

Regulations are immoral because they subject to state coercion people who have done nothing wrong. Regulation says: "Satisfy us that you won't do something wrong."

Then explain how the laissez faire market forces should have prevented the orgy of playing Pass the Hot Potato for a profit with those under-collateralized sub-prime loans?

The financial crisis shows the absolute failure of the regulatory state. Banking and insurance--the focus of the failure--are the most highly regulated industries.

Laissez-faire doesn't have this problem, because there is no Federal Reserve, no Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, no government pushing banks to loan for "the ownership society."

In short, we Objectivists see the financial crisis as caused by government intervention. Lots of it. Tons of it. (Over 50,000 new regulations were imposed in the 12 years prior to the crisis, according to the Competitive Enterprise Institute.) The Fed (which wouldn't exist under laissez-faire) held interest rates too low too long; the extra money was channeled into housing by Fannie and Freddie.

How are laissez faire market forces supposed to prevent the faking of assets large companies were assisting each other with by trading worthless assets for big bucks temporarily with each other so their books would look fat, then trading them back after the books had been examined by the credit raters or whoever else they needed to fool at the moment?

How are regulatory agencies supposed to prevent it? How come the SEC though informed about Bernie Madoff repeatedly, with documentation, by Harry Markopoulis, didn't lift a finger?

Under laissez-faire, it's investor beware. There's no SEC, no governmentally imposed reporting requirements, no FDIC, etc. Today's regulatory agencies give the investor a false sense of security, while also hamstringing financiers. The paperwork requirements are very expensive in time and money, and their are all kind of restrictions on perfectly proper deals.
 
If you consider some of the more recent revelations about brain function, you'd find, as you say, that those 'senses' were indeed merely electrical impulses until they reach the brain where they are stored as already altered "interpretations".

Maybe you don't see interpretations as the way information is stored. Do you think we interpret the information after it is stored?

There is no interpretation of data by the brain, only processing. "Intepretation"--i.e., an identification of the nature and meaning of what you're looking at--is the application of concepts to the sensory material.

Take the stick half-submerged in water. It looks bent. That is, its appearance is similar to that of bent sticks out of water. But your senses don't whisper in your ear, like Chloe does to Jack on 24, "This is a bent stick." Nor do they whisper, "This is a straight stick that looks bent." They simply present you with a scene (the same as a photograph of it would). The interpretation, "That is a bent stock" is made by your intellect, by subsuming the perceived thing under the concepts "bent" and "stick." That is where the error is. You don't see incorrectly. You don't need a trip to the opthamologist.

In principle, whatever form of perception results from the processing done automatically, deterministically by your sensory mechanism is "the given." It is not evaluatable. It just is what it is.

Rand distinguishes the form of perception from the object of perception. All forms of perception are valid. The possibility of error and distortion enters only where there is volitional control over the process--i.e., at the conceptual level.

If your brain were rewired so that you had color-inversion, seeing yellow where you saw blue before, red where you saw green before, etc., that would merely be a different form of perceiving the same objects in reality. It would not be an "error," and would not deprive you of any information.

So, one can defend the inerrancy of the senses by calling on the two points:

1. it is the intellect, not the senses that interprets, judges, conceptually identifies

2. the same object can be perceived in different forms, with no error

In general, the best writer on perception is J. J. Gibson, who was not an Objectivist.
 
Regulations are immoral because they subject to state coercion people who have done nothing wrong. Regulation says: "Satisfy us that you won't do something wrong."
That sounds like a statement of religious belief.

Many regulations are normative: They define what is wrong.

Consider, for example, the US FCC regulations that allocate the radio spectrum. There is no inherent natural law that would make it wrong for someone to broadcast a 50 kilowatt AM signal on a frequency allocated to cell phone, marine, emergency, or television broadcast communications; the reason it would be wrong to do so is that the general interest is served by adopting technical conventions for use of the radio spectrum, and the regulations determine those conventions.

Much the same could be said for driving on the left or right side of the road (although I suspect that convention is a law in most jurisdictions, rather than a mere regulation).

Violating such conventions, though they be largely arbitrary, would be wrong because it would harm the general interest. Rand's ideas are attacked in part because so many people use her ideas to deny the existence of a common interest or to justify anti-social behavior in the name of self-interest or selfishness.
 
Sure. Under laissez-faire, there are no preventive laws. That means no regulation--zero--only punishment for violations of the law that have occurred (or where there is a "clear and present danger"). It's "management by results," so to speak.

Regulations are immoral because they subject to state coercion people who have done nothing wrong. Regulation says: "Satisfy us that you won't do something wrong."
Your underlying premise is stealing, cheating, & deceiving people is not wrong, it's the strong winning and the weak losing. The majority of humans on the planet do not operate on this underlying moral foundation.


The financial crisis shows the absolute failure of the regulatory state.
Your illogic here is that because regulations weren't strong enough, and enforcement was lax, that somehow the solution is even less regulation.

The private interested parties exert millions of dollars worth of political influence to defeat regulations or their enforcement, which results in one disaster after another.

Your premise is false that somehow this would all cease if markets were even less regulated. The problem is Bush let the regulatory system, which had already been chipped away at, totally disintegrate.

Banking and insurance--the focus of the failure--are the most highly regulated industries.

Laissez-faire doesn't have this problem, because there is no Federal Reserve, no Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, no government pushing banks to loan for "the ownership society."
Your scenario is pure fantasy. With even less regulation we'd go back to the days of peasant uprisings every few decades or so.

In short, we Objectivists see the financial crisis as caused by government intervention. Lots of it. Tons of it. (Over 50,000 new regulations were imposed in the 12 years prior to the crisis, according to the Competitive Enterprise Institute.) The Fed (which wouldn't exist under laissez-faire) held interest rates too low too long; the extra money was channeled into housing by Fannie and Freddie.
Always the claim someone/thing prevents Rand's true philosophy of working. And never the true self assessment that human nature is poorly accounted for in Rand's philosophy. She falls short of recognizing we are a heterogeneous, not a homologous species. And Objectivist underlying premises simply don't match reality.

I said somewhere in one of these discussions of Rand, garbage in garbage out. Her assessment of human nature was so poorly done, her conclusions based on that assessment were grossly flawed.

It's interesting the very thing Rand rated about, the philosophy of communism, was just as ignorantly based on a very poor assessment of basic human nature. Rand's philosophy amounts to a philosophy applied to an imaginary world. In the real world, because of the erroneous underlying premises, Objectivism does not work.

You cannot remove the part of human nature which leads to people exerting influence on government, except in lala land. You cannot take all government out of the business world except in lala land. So what results is some imaginary belief that the more you deregulate, the closer you get to Rand's imaginary world.

But that isn't what happens because lala land is not real. The more you deregulate, the worse things get. Bush's 8 years demonstrates that fact unequivocally. If less regulation was better, we should have seen major advances in the economy during Bush's term. Instead, the economy tanked. Corporations got more and more inventive in how to cheat people.

When the Libertarians and/or Objectivists look at the data, they ignore the evidence that less regulation made things even worse, and fall back on the illogical claim government intervened even more.



How are regulatory agencies supposed to prevent it? How come the SEC though informed about Bernie Madoff repeatedly, with documentation, by Harry Markopoulis, didn't lift a finger?
If you read Markopolos' book, "No One Would Listen", or heard the author's story, you would know how Bush's gutting of enforcement of regulations in order to nullify the laws Bush didn't agree with Congress on, led to the conditions which resulted in no one listening. The SEC turned a deaf ear to Markopolos. You try to discredit Greenspan's idealizing Objectivism. But by his own admission his idealizing of Rand's ideas resulted in a false assumption by Greenspan that market forces were sufficient, and regulations had a negative impact.

How on Earth would no regulations have stopped Madoff? It's not like you can point to any market forces that would have stopped him and some regulation that didn't.

Under laissez-faire, it's investor beware. There's no SEC, no governmentally imposed reporting requirements, no FDIC, etc. Today's regulatory agencies give the investor a false sense of security, while also hamstringing financiers. The paperwork requirements are very expensive in time and money, and their are all kind of restrictions on perfectly proper deals.
I doubt eliminating that "false sense of security" would have any impact whatsoever on people's abilities to cheat other people, especially the ability of the rich and powerful to cheat and steal from those not as well off.

In Rand's view the weak and poor steal from the rich. It's ludicrous. Her view clearly results from her narrow experience as a young person where a revolution affected the economic status she was born into.

Many relatives altruistically contributed to Rand's getting to the US, establishing a life here, and getting her initial breaks as a writer. She never admitted (probably not even to herself) that she did not become successful entirely on her own. Numerous people gave her things, at a cost to themselves, that were never repaid.


It all comes down to your false underlying premise that in the real world all you need do is [X] and everything will work. It's unrealistic.
 
There is no interpretation of data by the brain, only processing. "Intepretation"--i.e., an identification of the nature and meaning of what you're looking at--is the application of concepts to the sensory material.
The brain automatically interprets many things, sans any conscious input. All you get in your conscious realm is the interpreted input. You never get the raw input because the brain has no mechanism of taking in and storing raw data like a recording device.

Have you ever looked at something in the distance or in poor light which you believed was [x] but when you got a better look, you could see it was [y]? And once you could see it was [y], when you return to the poor light or distance, guess what? It now looks like [y] and your brain cannot recreate (for the most part) what you saw originally that looked like [x].

When you see something, the brain interprets what you are seeing. That doesn't mean the interpretation cannot be, "I don't know what that is". But what research clearly demonstrates is the brain interprets what you see as the data comes into the brain, not after it gets there. The brain adds and subtracts data, filling in that blank spot on the retina for example. No "processing" as you are describing it, occurs in that first step of receiving the incoming data.


Take the stick half-submerged in water. It looks bent. That is, its appearance is similar to that of bent sticks out of water. But your senses don't whisper in your ear, like Chloe does to Jack on 24, "This is a bent stick." Nor do they whisper, "This is a straight stick that looks bent." They simply present you with a scene (the same as a photograph of it would). The interpretation, "That is a bent stock" is made by your intellect, by subsuming the perceived thing under the concepts "bent" and "stick." That is where the error is. You don't see incorrectly. You don't need a trip to the opthamologist.

In principle, whatever form of perception results from the processing done automatically, deterministically by your sensory mechanism is "the given." It is not evaluatable. It just is what it is.
Your example is not analogous at all to what I'm referring to. In your example, you are merely talking about seeing bent light. This isn't a true brain illusion because the light actually is bent. The light bends before it reaches the brain. And, in the case of your example, the brain learned that light can bend very early in life.


There are certain properties of some optical illusions which demonstrate the principle I am referring to. In these illusions, the light is not bent, but the brain adds an interpretation to the data AFTER the incoming input reaches the brain.

These two optical illusions demonstrate what I am referring to:

Chessboard Shading Optical Illusion

Line Length Müller-Lyer Optical Illusion

No matter that you can see intellectually the two lines are the same length and the two squares are the same shade of gray, your brain will insist the lines are different lengths and the squares are two different shades. The brain is not perceiving pure data, it is perceiving data interpreted by the rules of the game which the brain is programed to use. That is, the perception of the lines and the squares includes interpretation using additional data.


When the Moon is on the horizon, the brain interprets its size based on thinking it is closer. As the Moon moves overhead it looks smaller. When it is on the horizon, cover one eye. The Moon will get instantly smaller. Uncover the eye, the Moon will look larger. You can cover and uncover your eye over and over and the brain will change the size of the Moon for you over and over.

Why? There are still the same horizon cues just as the adjacent squares and arrows in the line and square illusions. It turns out seeing with one or two eyes includes its own set of rules for your brain interpreting incoming data.

There are many such illusions. The brain expects light to be from above, so depending on the side of a circle you see a shadow on, the brain will either see a hill or a hole. All of these illusions demonstrate the rules the brain automatically applies to our rational thought. These are visual rules. There are other rules as well which don't involve immediate input.

Your moral rules, rules of beauty, capacity for logic and so on all vary from person to person. The initial brain functions exist and can be modified or damaged, but one doesn't start with a blank slate.

Some of these rules are the same from person to person. People in all cultures recognize a smile. Beauty is impacted by social influence, but babies are cute from culture to culture. Studies of very young children demonstrate innate sense of morals unrelated to learning, and brain damage can destroy moral beliefs demonstrating there is a hardware moral function in our brains.


Rand distinguishes the form of perception from the object of perception. All forms of perception are valid. The possibility of error and distortion enters only where there is volitional control over the process--i.e., at the conceptual level.
Can you see the squares and lines in the above illusion correctly even after you learn they are the same respectively? Your perception of many things are not under voluntary control. The brain has many hard wired rules.

So, one can defend the inerrancy of the senses by calling on the two points:

1. it is the intellect, not the senses that interprets, judges, conceptually identifies

2. the same object can be perceived in different forms, with no error
My examples prove both these points wrong.

In general, the best writer on perception is J. J. Gibson, who was not an Objectivist.
If we are talking about the same person, JJ Gibson died in 1979. That was 30 years ago. You might want to take a look at what we've discovered about the brain in the last 3 decades.
 
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Oh.

Well you'd be surprised how many people are unaware morality in humans exists regardless of the impact of teaching/learning. We just had this go round in a recent thread where it was implied morality was a function of human advanced thought and no other living creatures could possibly have any moral reasoning. But the evidence of the evolution of morality can be seen in non-human primates and probably seen many other animals. The morality function of our 'reasoning' is clearly present in other species.

Yeah, I was so pissed about that uneditable typo; it COMPLETELY wrecked my original post. Sadly, the refusal to acknowledge our morality is innate leads to lots and lots and lots of religious apologists throwing the "well where does your morality come from?" question at atheists.

You don't understand what I'm saying, but then I haven't really elaborated much here. It's a false dichotomy to say one is either making an emotional decision or a reasoned decision.

I think that depends upon how you define an "emotional decision." Yes, one could say that all decisions are both 'reasoned' and 'emotional,' and that the differences people talk about do not exist neurologically based on the evidence we have. That is true.

However, I would argue that when most people say "emotional" decision, we can identify the decisions they're talking about as "poorly reasoned," and it's a recognizable behavioral phenomenon, even if there isn't (as you've correctly and repeatedly pointed out) an actual separation in the brain. And I certainly don't think it's a stretch to say that--irrespective of her lack of knowledge of neurological processes--when Ayn Rand "deifies reason," she's advocating making well-thought-out decisions, because regardless of brain chemistry, the behavioral difference remains.
 
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There is no interpretation of data by the brain, only processing. "Intepretation"--i.e., an identification of the nature and meaning of what you're looking at--is the application of concepts to the sensory material.

Take the stick half-submerged in water. It looks bent. That is, its appearance is similar to that of bent sticks out of water. But your senses don't whisper in your ear, like Chloe does to Jack on 24, "This is a bent stick." Nor do they whisper, "This is a straight stick that looks bent." They simply present you with a scene (the same as a photograph of it would). The interpretation, "That is a bent stock" is made by your intellect, by subsuming the perceived thing under the concepts "bent" and "stick." That is where the error is. You don't see incorrectly. You don't need a trip to the opthamologist.

If you want to call automatic neurological processes you have no control over "intellect," fine, but that's not what most people use the word to mean. It's pretty clear you're stretching your terms to fit your desired conclusion, that the "senses are inerrant."
 
This post is for Skeptic Ginger.

I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes I don't read certain people's posts for one reason or another. I've frequently not read your posts because you often cover your own post, meaning you post again and again without anyone replying to your (or anyone elses) last post. It's not against the rules nor wrong, but it has made me less likely to read your posts. It's a preference on my part and it is my problem not yours.

I felt bad and made an effort to read all your posts on page 5 of this thread about Ayn Rand.

One of my conclusions regarding philosophy is that philosophers, including Rand, developed their ideas amidst a paucity of information about the biology of the brain.
This is silly. Do you wish to undermine Plato for the same reason. Which philosophers are Sceptic Ginger informed of the biology of the brain appoved? You must have the names of some sharp philosophers or are all philosophers brain biology misinformed?
Recent scientific discoveries about how the brain perceives, stores and regurgitates information need to be incorporated into philosophical theories. If you don't do that, you might as well be speculating about the nature of morality as if morality emanated from some magical place.
You evidently are speculating from such an informed place. It must not suck to be you.

Your underlying premise is stealing, cheating, & deceiving people is not wrong, it's the strong winning and the weak losing. The majority of humans on the planet do not operate on this underlying moral foundation.
"Stealing, cheating, & deceiving" is not the same "as the strong winning and the weak losing." It's not that I ever needed to discern the difference but I would prefer to lose to a stronger individual than one who steals, cheats and deceives. I don't cotton to that stealing, cheating and deceiving thing.
In Rand's view the weak and poor steal from the rich. It's ludicrous. Her view clearly results from her narrow experience as a young person where a revolution affected the economic status she was born into.
I don't see her view as narrower than anyone elses. In fact she knows about Russia, Hollywood and writing. She has seen a lot. You're wrong that she has a narrow view.
Many relatives altruistically contributed to Rand's getting to the US, establishing a life here, and getting her initial breaks as a writer. She never admitted (probably not even to herself) that she did not become successful entirely on her own. Numerous people gave her things, at a cost to themselves, that were never repaid.
I'm calling BS on this. Where did you get this information?

It all comes down to your false underlying premise that in the real world all you need do is [X] and everything will work. It's unrealistic.

Are you going to write a book "Atlas is alive and well?"
 
I don't understand #4 on the list:

4. The use of reason is volitional. The senses function automatically, but the process of concept-formation and thought is a matter of choice. The choice to think or not to think is man's basic free will.

It doesn't seem this way to me. For instance, when I read these posts. I form concepts that seem without any volition at all. It seems effortless and outside of my control. Same with reading words and other habitual tasks.

I think I must have it wrong somehow. I do not seem to have, "the choice to think."
 
....However, I would argue that when most people say "emotional" decision, we can identify the decisions they're talking about as "poorly reasoned,"
Then that is what should be said because claiming one's emotions are the opposite of reason is an erroneous statement. Reason cannot be void of the brain mechanisms which include emotional input. It's not possible.


.... and it's a recognizable behavioral phenomenon, even if there isn't (as you've correctly and repeatedly pointed out) an actual separation in the brain. And I certainly don't think it's a stretch to say that--irrespective of her lack of knowledge of neurological processes--when Ayn Rand "deifies reason," she's advocating making well-thought-out decisions, because regardless of brain chemistry, the behavioral difference remains.
The problem, however, is making a "well thought out decisions" based on false underlying premises. If you don't start with valid underlying premises, all the rational deliberation in the world is not going to make the decision outcome valid.

Rand had, IMO, many false underlying premises about human nature.
 

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