• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Automatic Drawing

Hmm, I'm interested in this claim of "smaller and faster than humanly possible".

I'm an artist by training myself and since my particular BFA is in animation I know a lot of tricks to draw quickly and precisely. However there is a great deal of diference between a small scribble and an Albrecht Dürer woodcut.

However, my main question is...how is this supernatural?
 
Hi boy's and girls I just want to say again up unitl today I had almost no one to talk to about what has been happening in my life all the positive and negative is so wonderfull I am still working on the web site this is not easy as they love to play when you finish something and ahhhh it's gone (how is it supernatural (I watch my hands move) can you Imagin .I posted this same story a couple of day"s ago on a paranormal site and got only a couple of responces talking about my gift when I read what your responses are I think you must not have read very carefully what I wrote anyway for those who really want to see the pictures go to snapfish .com login lancekatcher@yahoo.com
password is jorelt it is alittle difficult to understand the detailed work but pretty easy to see it in the black and whites

thanks so much I have been living with this secret for quite awhile
 
Ah....Lance, I'm no expert when it comes to art but I thought there was supposed to be some amazing tiny detail. Either the picture isn't showing the detail or...?

I'm looking at the black/white as well as the color pictures.

If I understand your "talent/gift" correctly you are claiming that you can draw detailed pictures of things/people, very quickly, very small, with both hands at the same time with your eyes closed. You also claim to hear voices while you are doing it. Is this even close to what you are claiming?

Have you ever read "Demon Haunted World," Sagan explains that the human brain is so advanced that it always tries to seek out patterns, sometimes when there is nothing there. If I look at your scanned in images I can see some eyes and some ghostly shapes, that does not mean that they are there, just what my brain is trying to make sense of. It is also possible that eyes and ghostly shapes were drawn on purpose into your pictures.

I'm not sure how you could test these kind of claims, but I am more interested in why you think that spirits are making you do this, or talking to you. For example, if you are indeed picking up voices, how do you know it is not your brain playing tricks on you, (like in the movie, Beautiful Mind) or how do you know it isn't the next door neighbor yelling at his kid, or maybe you are sensing a radio station?

In the book, "The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat" the brain doctor (can't think how to spell that word) gave case studies of patients who would hear music all day long, sometimes it was various music from their childhood, some times it was a repeated phrase over and over that made little sense, other times it was music like from an old-time radio station. This doctor never claimed that it was fairys or demons or even Santa, but it was something odd going on in the patients brain. What leads you to think it is demons?

I know what it is like to think you are all alone. But you are on a Skeptical Forum. We are going to be very skeptical of what you claim, you need to write clearly and be specific. If you try to explain, you will find a willing audience that may help you understand what you are experiencing.

Susan
 
Lance,
You do not need to write in a mad rush - it is not like a conversation. You can take time to re-read what you have written, and add in a few line breaks at the very least, before clicking 'submit'.

Also, if responding to someone specific - you can use the 'quote' button, to create a post that copies the post you want to reply to, and provides us with an easily viewable link, that makes your response easier to understand.
 
Lance Katcher said:
Hi boy's and girls I just want to say again up unitl today I had almost no one to talk to about what has been happening in my life all the positive and negative is so wonderfull I am still working on the web site this is not easy as they love to play when you finish something and ahhhh it's gone (how is it supernatural (I watch my hands move) can you Imagin .I posted this same story a couple of day"s ago on a paranormal site and got only a couple of responces talking about my gift when I read what your responses are I think you must not have read very carefully what I wrote anyway for those who really want to see the pictures go to snapfish .com login lancekatcher@yahoo.com
password is jorelt it is alittle difficult to understand the detailed work but pretty easy to see it in the black and whites

thanks so much I have been living with this secret for quite awhile
Click to expand...

Lance, welcome to the Forum. Let me re-ask some very important questions that were asked here but that you haven't answered yet:

1) What, specifically, is your claim?

2) How is it paranormal? I.e., are you simply claiming that spirits draw through you? Or are you claiming some paranormal ability -- like being able to see the contents of another room without being there?

3) How do you intend to demonstrate it?

4) What would have to happen for your demonstration to be unsuccessful? This is a very important question.

It is one thing to claim "the spirits draw through me." What you have to do, though, is come up with a demonstration that proves that nothing else could be the possible answer. Some demonstration that shows that it's not "obsessive drawing", or speedy animation art, or simply drawing in a trance.

One thing you can't do is assume that spirits, the spirit world, or even God, exist. All of this has yet to be demonstrated. So you can't just draw a picture and say, "isn't it weird? Spirits must have done it!" Or "isn't this weird? I'm seeing the spirit world!" Or "isn't this mind-boggling? I must be drawing the mind of God!"

None of that will work for the Challenge. So...what are your answers to the above questions?
 
I'm a little confused about the paranormal part here. As far as I can tell Lance is simply claiming to be able to draw. OK, being able to draw well is a fairly rare talent, but there is certainly nothing paranormal about it.
 
I'm afraid I don't hold much hope of getting a coherent response from Lance, to be honest. Only tangentially impinging on reality...
 
You are being too hard on the guy people. Nevermind if his English sucks and let's concentrate on his claims.

I'd say, as someone else did, that it would be quite easy to prove him right or wrong with this. Blindfold the guy and let him draw Mona Lisa and The Last Supper simultaneusly or something and let's see if they come out as perfect copies drawn by spirits.

I have a little insight in drawing and art, even if I don't do it myself, and I know that seeng what you are doing is incredibly important.

Drawing with both hands at the same time is hard - only ambidextrous people can do that (test yourself: with a pen in each hand, try to draw a circle with one hand and a square with the other and see how it goes).
 
A quick look at Lance's drawing shows that many of them are basically bilaterally symmetrical, i.e. mirror images essentially. Which indicates the hands are not operating completely independently. Other than that, it's scribble.
 
sgf8 - the neurologist was Oliver Sacks.

and I think I'm thinking what you're thinking. Maybe we're telepathic.
 
Madalch said:
Why do you assume the spirits can see Lance's surroundings? If it's the spirit of Picasso trying to churn out a painting that he didn't get around to while he was alive, why would he care what Lance is seeing?

If the spirit could see, then Lance could reproduce a painting which is unveiled only after Lance is blindfolded, but I don't see that Lance is making this claim.
Click to expand...

Well, the real answer on the limits of his abilities can only come from Lance of course, but the idea of turning the paper shifts the burden from "seeing Lance's surroundings" to "successfully completing a drawing." If the spirits can't see the surroundings to do the reproduction test, perhaps they have some other way of sensing whether a drawing is coming out the way it's supposed to, since it seems they're not using Lance's eyesight to do so.

Lance Katcher said:
yes eyes closed eyes open doest matter
Click to expand...

Just trying to give Lance some alternate ideas about how the ability could be shown to be paranormal.
 
Warge said:
...I'd say, as someone else did, that it would be quite easy to prove him right or wrong with this. Blindfold the guy and let him draw Mona Lisa and The Last Supper simultaneusly or something and let's see if they come out as perfect copies drawn by spirits...
Click to expand...
Sounds like the results may be subjective and require (the dreaded) judging. Lance’s idea of a perfect copy and mine may be totally different - particularly if it’s Picasso’s "spirit's" version of the Mona Lisa.;)

Lance, if I may be so bold as to ask you a personal question, have you ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia? I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV, but it seems to me that you have some classic symptoms of the disease.
 
Hello skeptics wow allot of opinions and ideas thanks .OK I have seen 3 psychiatrists their diagnosis was automatic drawing I never heard the term before and they never wittnessed it before to watch us draw is amazing. now a simple test someone could draw a shape and we can fill it in without looking and not go outside the lines
 
I am 53 and never did steroids I have allot of spirits in me and they like muscles by the way sorry I forgot to take those pictures out in my excitement yesterday
 
Ok, drawing without going outside the boundaries without looking. Sounds like something testable. Have you tried to contact a skeptic group in your area to help you design and run an experiment? You are one test away from glory and fame. (ETA: or if glory and fame aren't your thing, one test away from anonymously opening new doors to our understanding of the universe.)
 
Lance Katcher said:
...now a simple test someone could draw a shape and we can fill it in without looking and not go outside the lines...
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are using this thread to come up with a testing plan. Why not continue on the correct route and complete the application. I believe you have had correspondence with the Challenge staff. Why not continue on that path before continuing on with this thread.

If you can do what you say you can do than the challenge should be no problem correct?
 
Hi Susan I am no artist I have no Idea what I 'm drawing the detail is the incredibly small face that that turn into the shapes on the paper like cloud watching.My hand sare moving so fast when I draw
 
Lance, do you know about paraeidolia (I hope I spelled that right)? It is the tendancy of humans to try and make sense of otherwise senseless patterns. It's what causes us to see things in clouds, the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich and Karl Marx on your shower curtain. If you doodle something, you are bound to "make sense" of your doodle. That is why the challenge asks for something that is so clear cut no judging or subjective interpretation is required. So for the time being, I would suggest dropping the "faces-in-a-doodle" approach and focusing on something objectively testable, such as the recent claim we were discussing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom