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Australian Federal Election 2010

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Given that she said she wouldn't introduce it at the time she got the votes, I reckon she probably doesn't have implied support, a mandate or whatever.

Indeed.
Hence her popularity at the moment. :rolleyes:

Sadly Gillard is set to ram this through parliament starting next week. She will do this without the benefit of a parliamentary debate, cost/benefit analyses, economic submissions, senate enquiry or any of the other democratic processes that we usually expect. The whole thing stinks!

Worst PM ever!
Worst government ever!
 
When the issue was put to the people prior to implementation.
Some 88% of the people of Australia voted for parties that had no carbon dioxide tax on the agenda at the last election.



This makes no sense.
Do you understand the answer to your question about how the carbon tax is worth doing. If my doctor tells me to stop drinking because I am wrecking my liver, I will not get all the liver function back, I will stop it getting worse. It's not that hard to understand.

Since when did democracy decide science was right or wrong? Over 99% of the population are not climate scientists.
 
And do you understand that when the doctor says you have liver cancer, go and see an economist to fix it up this makes no sense.

The Carbon tax will not mitigate climate change any more than taxing the use of my liver will cure the cancer it has.
 
And do you understand that when the doctor says you have liver cancer, go and see an economist to fix it up this makes no sense.

The Carbon tax will not mitigate climate change any more than taxing the use of my liver will cure the cancer it has.

You are mixing your metaphors, no wonder it makes no sense.

I was talking about cirhossis, not cancer.

If they taxed alcohol and made it more expensive, which they do, they hope to reduce disease caused by alcohol, hence the tax on alcopops, which exploited a tax loop. Young people are suffering from excessive alcohol consumption, to an alarming degree. Raising the tax reduces the consumption. Amazingly enough, the libs opposed raising the tax on that, too. The political pig headedness is astounding. Wanting to encourage young people to die young makes them the worst opposition ever, already.
 
If they taxed alcohol and made it more expensive, which they do, they hope to reduce disease caused by alcohol, hence the tax on alcopops, which exploited a tax loop. Young people are suffering from excessive alcohol consumption, to an alarming degree.

You are talking to a drug and alcohol clinician, I think I understand this a bit better than you.

Raising the tax reduces the consumption.

Nope. It just means they buy cheaper booze but consume the same volumes

Amazingly enough, the libs opposed raising the tax on that, too. The political pig headedness is astounding. Wanting to encourage young people to die young makes them the worst opposition ever, already.

LOL. Ridiculous.
Evidence please.

Are you a WOWSER?
 
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You are talking to a drug and alcohol clinician, I think I understand this a bit better than you.

Then you would know it is an analogy, not a literally factual statement, to illustrate a point.

Let me make the analogy simpler, and more illustrative, without arguing about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.

There is a disease, called X, that damages the liver because of alcohol excessive alcohol consumption. Your doctor advises you to cut your alcohol consumption to stop the progress of the disease. By cutting the consumption, you cannot regain full function of the liver, but you stop the advance of the disease. Do you ridicule the doctor because cutting alcohol consumption does not give you full function of the liver back, and continue excessive alcohol consumption. That is the situation we are in now with global warming. We are tying to minimise the harm, we cannot reduce the temperature below what it is now. It's a concept that is not that hard to understand. Can you understand the concept?
Nope. It just means they buy cheaper booze but consume the same volumes



LOL. Ridiculous.
Evidence please.

Are you a WOWSER?

A wowser because I am dismayed by the extent of teenage binge drinking. Unbelievable. Even Brendan knew the tax increase was justified.
 
Then you would know it is an analogy, not a literally factual statement, to illustrate a point.

Let me make the analogy simpler, and more illustrative, without arguing about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.

There is a disease, called X, that damages the liver because of alcohol excessive alcohol consumption. Your doctor advises you to cut your alcohol consumption to stop the progress of the disease. By cutting the consumption, you cannot regain full function of the liver, but you stop the advance of the disease. Do you ridicule the doctor because cutting alcohol consumption does not give you full function of the liver back, and continue excessive alcohol consumption. That is the situation we are in now with global warming. We are tying to minimise the harm, we cannot reduce the temperature below what it is now. It's a concept that is not that hard to understand. Can you understand the concept?

Yep. But the tool that you will use will not fix the problem. The liver damage will not be corrected with the behavioural change you are recommending. You basically want to apply a placebo that will have little or no impact. But this isn't the only problem; the side effects of the placebo will have long lasting negative influences on other areas of the body.

The cost to the other parts of the body versus the miniscule improvement is not worth it, especially when we know it will not fix it.
 
Did anyone else watch At Home With Julia?

I thought it had some good parts. Mostly "Bill Shorten" and the independents. :)
 
Well given the current line of discussion in this thread I think I'll quote this post that Mobyseven made back in March when were were discussing pretty much the exact same thing:

The lights come up on a grisly scene: center stage a man lies spread-eagled on the floor, bloody and bruised. Standing over him is the culprit, and he's not done yet -- for now, at least, he's decided to kick the incapacitated man in the ribs. Repeatedly.

An eccentric looking gent in a top hat enters from stage right.


TOP HAT: I say, do stop beating that man!

BEATER: Why? Do you think he'll recover?

TOP HAT: Perhaps, in time. Though with the thrashing you've given him he may not be able to walk for weeks.

BEATER: Hah, weeks? Then he clearly won't gain any benefit if I stop beating him. In fact, I think I'll keep beating him continuously for a week, as it won't make any difference!

TOP HAT: I certainly can't argue with that logic.

BEATEE: JESUS, WHY???

Fin.
 
After all the whoop dee doo.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/case-against-embattled-mp-appears-dead-20110907-1jxub.html

The case against Thomson is dead.

THE fraud case against Labor MP Craig Thomson is effectively dead following advice from the New South Wales police that there is insufficient evidence to prove allegations he spent more than $100,000 on prostitutes, election campaigning and personal expenses.


Yet there is a case against Senator Fisher, and, from the stories published, it had nothing to do with mental health issues, as has has been stated earlier, as she did not panic, but carefully planned the theft.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-07/senator-fisher-shoplifting-assault-charges/2874954
Prosecutors have taken instructions from the Crown Solicitor and intend proceeding with charges against a Liberal Senator.
But the lawyer for Mary Jo Fisher has told Adelaide Magistrates Court he still plans to push for the shoplifting and assault case to be thrown out.
The Senator allegedly took $92 of fruit and vegetables from a supermarket at Frewville in Adelaide's eastern suburbs last December.
She denied the charges but security officer Cathryn Groot told the court she witnessed the theft.
Ms Groot said the South Australian Senator pushed her twice and repeatedly closed the car door on her arm.
Defence lawyer Michael Abbott QC argued Ms Groot's evidence should be ruled inadmissible because she had acted beyond her authority.
At the latest hearing, prosecutors said they planned to proceed with the charges and Ms Groot had done nothing unlawful.
Mr Abbott said he would hear the entire prosecution case before pushing for it to be thrown out.


What was that about hypocrisy? Abbot wants to wait before making a fuss about the matter, to hear what the entire prosecution case is. Yet where is the drama, the front pages, the demands for justice, the tortuous wails of horror for justice denied from the Murdoch press, the shock jocks, Senator Brandis.


There is one standard for Labor, one which can never be met, and one for Liberals, which shifts as need be.



​
 
After all the whoop dee doo.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/case-against-embattled-mp-appears-dead-20110907-1jxub.html

The case against Thomson is dead.



Yet there is a case against Senator Fisher, and, from the stories published, it had nothing to do with mental health issues, as has has been stated earlier, as she did not panic, but carefully planned the theft.

What was that about hypocrisy? Abbot wants to wait before making a fuss about the matter, to hear what the entire prosecution case is. Yet where is the drama, the front pages, the demands for justice, the tortuous wails of horror for justice denied from the Murdoch press, the shock jocks, Senator Brandis.


There is one standard for Labor, one which can never be met, and one for Liberals, which shifts as need be.


[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Back to the drawing boards for muckraker Abbott.
 

So there is no fraud. That is good to know but it does leave some unanswered questions doesn't it?
A few quick thoughts, I will read more of these reports later:
That must mean that he legally and legitimately (in line with his employers guidelines or lack thereof) used his credit card legitimately. Add to that there was no fraud or anything illegal, then his card was not stolen as he claimed. Ergo he lied.
That means the signatures on the purchase dockets are his. So he lied.
Do unions actually condone this sort of use of their members funds?


This simply makes him a bare faced liar.

Despite your hopes, I don't quite think this is the end of this somehow. ;)
 
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Gillard bastes Brown over 'turkey' spray

Of course, she had a roasting to get to...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-08/gillard-cuts-nz-visit-short/2877330

Prime Minister Julia Gillard has hit back at Greens leader Bob Brown's criticism of the Department of Immigration after he described the bureaucrats as "turkeys".

Turkeys?

"Senator Brown's completely wrong. It's the wrong thing to do to criticise officials," Ms Gillard said.

And Gillard preparing to get into bed with Abbott?

Ah, the new paradigm; you've gotta love it. :)
 
So there is no fraud. That is good to know but it does leave some unanswered questions doesn't it?
A few quick thoughts, I will read more of these reports later:
That must mean that he legally and legitimately (in line with his employers guidelines or lack thereof) used his credit card legitimately. Add to that there was no fraud or anything illegal, then his card was not stolen as he claimed. Ergo he lied.
That means the signatures on the purchase dockets are his. So he lied.
Do unions actually condone this sort of use of their members funds?


This simply makes him a bare faced liar.

Despite your hopes, I don't quite think this is the end of this somehow. ;)

The police think there is nothing to it, so does that mean some politicians, and the proxies in the Murdoch press, indulge in some arm twisting and behind the scenes manipulation. They got rid of Overland, for having the temerity to give them a dressing down for publishing the leaked details of a raid on possible terrorists before the raid even happened. :rolleyes:
 
The libs in Victoria have done a classic 'broken' promise to help them get into power. After raising hell about speed and red light cameras, and accusing the Labor government of using them purely for raising revenue and not having any real effect on the road toll, they are now turning them on. The cameras cut the road toll, and actually save money in doing so.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...leaves-coalition-in-a-jam-20110907-1jxp2.html
In short, they are an easy target, one the state Coalition was only too happy to cynically exploit in opposition in a classic example of hip-pocket politics. In 2009, the then shadow and now Minister for Roads, Terry Mulder, said speed cameras represented a ''treasured pot of gold for John Brumby''.
During last year's election campaign, Ted Baillieu promised a government led by him would regularly publish details of mobile speed camera locations, while hinting there were serious questions about their placement being linked to raising revenue.
Advertisement: Story continues below
In December, after the Coalition's election win, Police Minister Peter Ryan ordered the Justice Department to shelve plans to switch on 32 new cameras, saying he did not want any more activated until ''we deal with the actual use of the cameras and their place in things''.
Then in January the government announced it would publish online a weekly roster of potential mobile camera sites.
In August the Coalition introduced legislation to establish a new public office: Road Safety Camera Commissioner. As pointed out by Broadmeadows MP Frank McGuire, the purpose was not to boost road safety, or to change driver behaviour or to save lives. ''The commissioner is a part-time officer who will conduct reviews and assessments, undertake investigations and receive complaints,'' McGuire told Parliament. ''This is the Baillieu-Ryan regime's grand plan on road safety.''
All of this seemed to create a sense that the Coalition was firmly on the side of motorists when it came to cameras. Then, quite suddenly, its attitude changed. Late last week Ryan announced that the 32 cameras placed in limbo would be switched on, and did not rule out the possibility of more cameras. ''As to whether we ultimately get more, that's something that I will receive material from the police about from time to time, and I will consider that on its merits,'' he said.
What changed? The problem - something Ryan is no doubt now coming to grips with - is that speed cameras might be unpopular, but all the evidence suggests they work. As a report last week by Auditor-General Des Pearson makes clear, there is no evidence Victoria's 328 camera sites are primarily used to raise revenue, and strong evidence to suggest they prevent death and serious injury, saving Victoria billions of dollars in the process. A study of 77 camera sites by the Monash University Accident Research Centre concluded that cameras led to an average 47 per cent drop in the number of casualty crashes. That translates to 17 fewer crashes causing death or serious injury and 36 fewer minor injury crashes per year.

​


And Abbot threatens not grant a 'pair' so an MP can attend the birth of his baby.
 
The police think there is nothing to it,

Incorrect. The NSW police say there is no fraud. That does not mean there is nothing wrong on other levels. This guy has been spending union members funds at the knock shop and pulled $100k for his own use by the sounds of things. The he said : it wasn't me. He lied, the lied again.

The matter is now in the hands of the Victorian police, the matter is not over despite your ridiculous attempts to whitewash.

It does seem though that you reckon he has made good use of other peoples money. Frankly I don't.
 
"he he"

Yes, right. I just hope Australians know who they are voting for. This has all been one protracted shell game run with the willing assistance of the Murdoch press and shock jocks. The $70 Billion cuts will bite hard.
 
http://www.theage.com.au/national/thomsons-new-link-to-illicit-cash-20110908-1jzy3.html

Let's keep blaming the Murdoch press - they have it in for Thompson and the Labor government as this article shows...... What, OMG! Fairfax? - it's a conspiracy!

Thomson's new link to illicit cash.

LABOR MP Craig Thomson and union boss Michael Williamson, who is on the ALP national executive, allegedly received secret commissions from a major supplier to their union.


A fuller picture here for the narrow of reading:

Police confirm Craig Thomson's signature on credit card

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...e-on-credit-card/story-fn59niix-1226132654746

LABOR MP Craig Thomson is expected to rely on the disappearance of financial records and slack union rules when he makes a "comprehensive statement" to defend allegations he misused his union credit card in a $100,000 splurge on prostitutes, cash withdrawals and air tickets.

But he faces a dilemma over his claim that another person forged his signature on the card dockets for a brothel, after NSW police determined they were genuine.

"We are satisfied that the person who used the card was the person whose name was on the card," a senior police officer told The Australian.


Psst, the bolded part is a clue why there is no fraud. He is far from being fully exonerated and people ought to be very careful jumping to his defense.
 
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