Australia

[Akhenaten]

I just barely came into this world early enough to have the opportunity to speak to a few WWI veterans. I think the thoughts you've all reflected are much in keeping with what the Kiwi soldiers were feeling and thinking.

Acclaimed New Zealand writer Maurice Shadbolt (not to be confused with his odd politician brother Tim Shadbolt) interviewed a great number of Kiwi veterans and assembled their stories in his work Voices from Gallipoli, a recommended read.

He used these stories as the basis for his moving play Once On Chunuk Bair, recounting the Wellington Battalion's desperate battle to seize and hold one of two vital positions during the Allied break out.

Tragically after repulsing wave after wave of Turkish counter attacks, British ships shelled the New Zealand positions, believing that there was no way there could still be any allies left alive on the peak. The Wellington Battalion commander - Lt Col William Malone (who defied Godley's insane order to assault in broad daylight and instead took the peak virtually unopposed at night) was killed in the shelling. His legacy remains, however; the ceremonial dress hat of the NZ Army (known as the "lemon squeezer") was created by Malone, inspired by the shape of Mt Taranaki.

Of the 760 men of the Wellington Battalion who captured Chunuk Bair, only 49 would ever come back down.

This Australian will never forget his brave New Zealand allies. Thank you for this story and its references; I'm looking forward to some reading.

I can't believe I've never thought to enquire about those hats, and now I know anyway. Woot! Serendipity rocks! Thank you also for that story.


We can haz a New Zealand thread? My knowledge is sadly lacking and I'd love to learn more. Besides, seeing Australia and New Zealand blitzing the opposition in HL&A would be beaut.


Cheers,

Dave

 

[MG1962]

He used these stories as the basis for his moving play Once On Chunuk Bair, recounting the Wellington Battalion's desperate battle to seize and hold one of two vital positions during the Allied break out.

Is that the battle that has the legend of the cloud associated with it. There was an "Angels Of The Mons" story attached to an assualt untaken by the Wellington Battallion that says in the heat of the fighting a cloud came down for a few minutes, when it lifted again all the men where gone.

 

[MG1962]

This Australian will never forget his brave New Zealand allies. Thank you for this story and its references; I'm looking forward to some reading.

There was a saying that came into being later in the war as Australian and New Zealand forces were increasingly used as shock troop. The saying was interchangable depending who undertook the orginal assault

"If a Kiwi can take it, and Australian can hold it"

Or the reverse

"If an Australian can take it, A Kiwi can hold it"

 

[Akhenaten]

Also the locals guided us to the most beautiful waterfall and large rock pool hidden in the scrub behind Cooktown. A lovely place in winter; sandfly city in the wet season. It's a national park that has cassowaries with legs like footballers and a few snakes.

Did it look like this?

©Cook Shire Council

If I recall correctly, this is in Black Mountain National Park, where the spooky mountain is that we discussed earlier. That may even be it in the background, but I'm not sure. We used this for a swimming hole when I was working up in Cooktown on a few occasions, since the area around the the airfield where we were based is teeming with salties.

Here are some pics of Pharaoh playing soldiers at Cooktown in 1978.

Changing a donc on Pilatus Porter A14-703. Sweetest. Aeroplane. Ever.

Corporal Dave is on the right in both photos, going flat out like a lizard drinking.


Cooktown is of course named after Captain James Cook RN FRS who almost came to a sticky end on the Great Barrier Reef offshore from its present location.

In the middle of the night of June 11, 1770, Cook's ship, Endeavour, struck the reef 39 km (24 mi) off the coast and was holed. After lightening the ship by throwing overboard about 50 tons of stuff, including cannons, they made it to the coast, but it took them until 17 June to get across the bar and beach the ship for repairs.

The reef where the ship struck and the River in whose mouth the ship was careened are both named for Endeavour.

Luckily for us, the locals were able to photograph Endeavour as she was leaving.

©Wikipedia

Wait . . . what? . . ?eleven?!

More of the story of the Endeavour can be read here, including more details of her stop-over(s) in Cooktown.


Cooktown is also home to Queensland's State Flower, the Cooktown Orchid Dendrobium phalaenopsis. I've tried and failed repeatedly to grow these in Pi-Broadford. Too cold.

©Wikipedia


Finally, as Bob points out, Cooktown is in Cassowary country.

©Cairns Unlimited


Cheers eh,

Dave

 

[Akhenaten]

There was a saying that came into being later in the war as Australian and New Zealand forces were increasingly used as shock troop. The saying was interchangable depending who undertook the orginal assault

"If a Kiwi can take it, an Australian can hold it"

Or the reverse

"If an Australian can take it, A Kiwi can hold it"

[gung-ho]The Taliban may shortly be able to update us on this. They sure as shootin' ain't Johnny Turk, and we're on their case.[/gung-ho]


Cheers mate,

Dave

 

[MG1962]

[gung-ho]The Taliban may shortly be able to update us on this. They sure as shootin' ain't Johhny Turk, and we're on their case.[/gung-ho]


Cheers mate,

Dave

I live near a US Iraq veteran. His only comment about Australian combat troops in that war was "They are crazy"

He was involved in a support role to clean out a town, that was supposed to be heavily defended. The operation was expected to go for about four hours

The Australians cleaned to town out in 25 minutes and captured something like 90 defenders. He said the particular units theme song was ACDCs "Dirty Deeds" lol

Hopefully the Taliban will be so over awed by the Australian troops courage training and sheer ability, they drop their weapons and surrender on sight. That way there is a better chance no one is going to get hurt

 

[Altered Statesman]

Hopefully the Taliban will be so over awed by the Australian troops courage training and sheer ability, they drop their weapons and surrender on sight. That way there is a better chance no one is going to get hurt

I've been toying with the idea of joining the Army and after reading those few brief paragraphs, I think I might. There are no other jobs around that I'm qualified for at the moment so why not, I've always wanted to so as Lawrence Lueng would say, "Choose your own adventure!"

 

[MG1962]

I've been toying with the idea of joining the Army and after reading those few brief paragraphs, I think I might. There are no other jobs around that I'm qualified for at the moment so why not, I've always wanted to so as Lawrence Lueng would say, "Choose your own adventure!"

I am not sure what country you are from, but I believe the Australian government is expanding their military budget. Although I have never served myself, I dont think I would be out of order suggesting there are a lot worse ways to spend your time than military service.

 

[Akhenaten]

I've been toying with the idea of joining the Army and after reading those few brief paragraphs, I think I might. There are no other jobs around that I'm qualified for at the moment so why not, I've always wanted to so as Lawrence Lueng would say, "Choose your own adventure!"

It's a great idea, and you won't regret it. The Service will train and qualify you, so when you've had enough of it you'll have a whole new skill set with which to set yourself up in civvy life.

Don't forget the Navy and Air Force, although obviously the Army is a far better choice if you ask me.


Please feel free to ask me any questions you have about the ARA.


Cheers,

Dave

 

[Akhenaten]

Speaking of Cooktown . . .


I hope I can be indulged with a bit of off-topicness. It's just a quick anecdote that I was reminded of as I was writing my earlier post. It's a lighter side of being teh Soldier.


UFOs Sighted at Cooktown


The aircraft that I posted photos of earlier were involved, amongst other things, in a flare dropping trial. The flares were metal cylinders about a metre long and about 20 cm in diameter, and yielded one million candlepower each (I have no idea what that is in the new money). Before illumination the flare deployed a parachute which held it aloft for the two minute burn time.

The flare had two triggering mechanisms, connected in parallel, one a timer and one an altitude sensor. Both were pre-settable.

The trial consisted of dropping these things out of a newly-designed dispenser which we fitted over the trapdoor in the floor of the Porter's cargo space. The dispenser held 16 flares at a time, and when loaded, the top of each flare ingressed about ½ its length into the cabin. A spring and gravity provided the means of "launching", with the cables from the two arming plugs on each flare being attached to a clip on the launcher, such that the plugs were pulled out as the flare dropped away from the aircraft.

In theory.

Unfortunately the sheet-metal workers scientists who threw together designed the launcher made it too flimsy, and often when a flare was dropped the dispenser would partially give way where the arming cables were attached to it. This absorbed enough energy that only one plug would be dislodged, and the flare would remain suspended about two feet below the fuselage. If it was the altitude-arming plug, there was plenty of time to produce an "engineering solution", as long as the airframe driver stayed straight and level.

But if it was the timer plug that went, then something bad was going to happen Real Soon. Because of this little quirk, the flight trials team consisted of three aircraft fitters kneeling around the dispenser, each armed with a pair of wire cutters on a wrist strap. The game was to see if anyone could reach down through the trapdoor and cut the remaining cable before things lit up a bit. The novelty was mainly in the first time it happened, when there was only one pair of cutters and six eager hands, but it worked out OK, I'm happily here to report.

With practice, the flares could be cut away in time that the altitude switch generally set them off a thousand feet below us.

So, there's the situation.

Now for the execution.

We would cruise in a straight line at 8000 feet over the sea and drop the flares every 30 seconds or so, hopefully leaving a nice neat line of brightness behind us. The aforementioned "hangers", however, introduced occasional brilliant streaks as they plummeted into the water. The timer switch was the one that deployed the parachute, so if that was the cable you cut, a "hanger" became a "bomb". I'm sure the sight this presented from the ground can be imagined.

We did one run in the middle of the afternoon and another that night, and next morning the Whiskey Tango Foxtrot brigade came out from Cooktown. They didn't want to know what we were up to; they wanted to know if we'd seen the UFOs.

A quick Q & A tour was arranged in exchange for a barbie and piss-up the next day, and there was much happiness.


Cheers,

"Bomber" Dave
173 General Support Squadron

 

[gumboot]

Is that the battle that has the legend of the cloud associated with it. There was an "Angels Of The Mons" story attached to an assualt untaken by the Wellington Battallion that says in the heat of the fighting a cloud came down for a few minutes, when it lifted again all the men where gone.

I've never heard that particular tale, but it would fit the basic story. The "cloud" would of course be the smoke and dust from the naval barrage!

 

[gumboot]

There was a saying that came into being later in the war as Australian and New Zealand forces were increasingly used as shock troop. The saying was interchangable depending who undertook the orginal assault

"If a Kiwi can take it, and Australian can hold it"

Or the reverse

"If an Australian can take it, A Kiwi can hold it"

Aye, I've oft heard it said, though always it was the Aussies who could take any positions, and the Kiwis who could hold any position. You're right though, that it could easily be reversed.

This weekend I went down to Wellington, and stopped in at the New Zealand National Army Museum on the way. There was a special exhibit on, dealing with the last 100 days of WWI and the feats of the New Zealand Division, culminating with our liberation of Le Quesnoy, and the unique bond that has grown between France and NZ as a result of that battle.

I was once again reminded of the incredible efforts and courage of those who fought, and of the true value in what they did.

Le Quesnoy was an old fortified French medieval town, a formidable position in a classic star pattern with triple walls, a wide moat, and fortified islands in the moat, with only a narrow lane linking the town to land. During WWI the Germans occupied and fortified the town, and treated the inhabitants harshly.

The Kiwis were given the task of defeating the Germans as the position was a strong point in the German line. Typically the approach was to flatten the entire town with artillery and then march in - check some before and after photos of Passchendaele to see what this did to the town.

The New Zealanders, however, decided that there were many civilians in the town, and therefore they would take it by infantry assault and forgo the artillery barrage. They attacked with scaling ladders, literally climbing the walls. However the ladders were too short to reach the top of the last wall from the moat level.

One courageous soldiers by the name of LT Leslie Averill led a single section of soldiers across a narrow bridge to a tiny ledge part way up the wall, and from there the scaling ladder could reach the top. Averill climbed to the top, engaging the Germans and driving off the nearest defenders. The rest of the section followed suite, and by the time the heavy British forces entered the town from the opposite side and reached the town square, the German garrison had already surrendered to the New Zealanders.

The people of Le Quesnoy never refer to November 4th as the day of their Liberation. Rather they call it the day of their Deliverance.

Now, Le Quesnoy is the only place in France that commemorates ANZAC Day, and many place names, street names, etc in the town have been renamed after New Zealanders and aspects of New Zealand, including the primary school (named after Averill) where New Zealand culture is a part of their curriculum.

Averill had already earned a Military Cross for his deeds at the crucial Battle of Bapaume, but being instrumental in two of the key achievements of the New Zealand Division during WWI was not enough for him - after the war he qualified as a doctor and was eventually appointed a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George for his contribution to Medicine and community.

In 1968 the town of Le Quesnoy appointed him Citoyen d'honneur, and in 1973 the government of France appointed him a chevalier de la Légion d'honneur.

 

[lionking]

Great story gumboot. I will have to spend more time reading about the original ANZACS. In an earlier thread I mentioned that my grandfather was in the Lighthorse Brigade, but I am seriously ignorant of this part of our history, unlike Akhenaten.

 

[MG1962]

I've never heard that particular tale, but it would fit the basic story. The "cloud" would of course be the smoke and dust from the naval barrage!

Here is an overview of the legend. In this one it is the Norfolk division with a detachment of New Zealand sappers. Like the Angel Of The Mons, the details change with every telling lol

http://www.drdavidclarke.co.uk/vanbat.htm

 

[MG1962]

Now, Le Quesnoy is the only place in France that commemorates ANZAC Day, and many place names, street names, etc in the town have been renamed after New Zealanders and aspects of New Zealand, including the primary school (named after Averill) where New Zealand culture is a part of their curriculum.

There was a discussion about this a few years ago, and I am pleased to say that this is changing. While Galipoli has a massive emotional under current, the ANZACs operated with distinction on the Western Front for a number of years

As a consequence Dawn Services are now held or being organised in the future for a number of significant sites across France.

There are also a couple of towns that do much the same as LeQuesnoy for Australias. Streets have Australian reference, there is a small Australian museum in one of the towns, and the school kids learn about Australia

I mention this because I often here negative comments about the French in a number of areas, but one thing you can really say about them. They dont forget when you have helped them out

 

[gumboot]

I mention this because I often here negative comments about the French in a number of areas, but one thing you can really say about them. They dont forget when you have helped them out

Aye, very true. Another people that are similar are the Greeks. To this day, they have not forgotten that the ANZACs died in a futile attempt to protect Greece from the Germans.

A work colleague of my father's went to Greece to visit the places his father had fought. Once the locals discovered he was the son of an ANZAC that fought the defense of Greece, there was nothing they couldn't do for him. He was not allowed to pay for anything at all.

 

[Damien Evans]

Aye, I've oft heard it said, though always it was the Aussies who could take any positions, and the Kiwis who could hold any position. You're right though, that it could easily be reversed.

This weekend I went down to Wellington, and stopped in at the New Zealand National Army Museum on the way. There was a special exhibit on, dealing with the last 100 days of WWI and the feats of the New Zealand Division, culminating with our liberation of Le Quesnoy, and the unique bond that has grown between France and NZ as a result of that battle.

I was once again reminded of the incredible efforts and courage of those who fought, and of the true value in what they did.

Le Quesnoy was an old fortified French medieval town, a formidable position in a classic star pattern with triple walls, a wide moat, and fortified islands in the moat, with only a narrow lane linking the town to land. During WWI the Germans occupied and fortified the town, and treated the inhabitants harshly.

The Kiwis were given the task of defeating the Germans as the position was a strong point in the German line. Typically the approach was to flatten the entire town with artillery and then march in - check some before and after photos of Passchendaele to see what this did to the town.

The New Zealanders, however, decided that there were many civilians in the town, and therefore they would take it by infantry assault and forgo the artillery barrage. They attacked with scaling ladders, literally climbing the walls. However the ladders were too short to reach the top of the last wall from the moat level.

One courageous soldiers by the name of LT Leslie Averill led a single section of soldiers across a narrow bridge to a tiny ledge part way up the wall, and from there the scaling ladder could reach the top. Averill climbed to the top, engaging the Germans and driving off the nearest defenders. The rest of the section followed suite, and by the time the heavy British forces entered the town from the opposite side and reached the town square, the German garrison had already surrendered to the New Zealanders.

The people of Le Quesnoy never refer to November 4th as the day of their Liberation. Rather they call it the day of their Deliverance.

Now, Le Quesnoy is the only place in France that commemorates ANZAC Day, and many place names, street names, etc in the town have been renamed after New Zealanders and aspects of New Zealand, including the primary school (named after Averill) where New Zealand culture is a part of their curriculum.

Averill had already earned a Military Cross for his deeds at the crucial Battle of Bapaume, but being instrumental in two of the key achievements of the New Zealand Division during WWI was not enough for him - after the war he qualified as a doctor and was eventually appointed a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George for his contribution to Medicine and community.

In 1968 the town of Le Quesnoy appointed him Citoyen d'honneur, and in 1973 the government of France appointed him a chevalier de la Légion d'honneur.

You've not heard of recent developments in Villers-Bretonneaux I see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villers-Bretonneux

They also had a dawn service this year, so it looks as though it will become permanent, as it should be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Villers-Bretonneux

 

[Old Bob]

What's happened? without Akhenaten imput this thread is dying and we haven't touched much of Australia. Many of the posters must have interesting places to talk about that the tourist never see.

 

[Old Bob]

Whats happened? Without Akhenaten imput this thread is dying. Many posters must have interesting places to talk about that the tourist never see.

 

[a_unique_person]

Man bitten by a deadly snake at Myer department store in the middle of the CBD.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/l...ner-bitten-by-snake-in-cbd-20090612-c5iw.html

The man was taken to St Vincent's Hospital, where a swab test confirmed he had been bitten by a brown snake, one of the deadliest snakes in the world and the leading cause of snakebite deaths in Australia.
But a hospital spokesman said the snake's highly-toxic venom had not entered the man's bloodstream. He remained in a stable condition, but would be kept in hospital overnight for observation.
"He is as happy as Larry,'' said the spokesman.

Fortunately, Larry is renowned for being a very happy person.