Australia FTW! Aboriginals most jailed people on earth.

[The Atheist]

Aussie has always wanted to be USA of the southern hemisphere, and now they can lay claim to a record not even the Yanks can beat:

Aboriginal Australians are locked up at a rate 53 times other residents of the Lucky Country.

Pity, that since they were there first, they didn't get some more of the luck.

From shooting them for sport only a century ago to the stolen generations to now, where they are either in jail or on a reservation drunk out of their minds, there can be little doubt that Australia has completely failed to preserve the culture, health or lifestyle of the original inhabitants.

I have a friend who lives close to an Aboriginal settlement, and she sees old people being bullied, victimised and burgled with alarming regularity by blackfellas.

I see no easy answers, but whatever's being done right now is clearly not working.

80% of juvenile detainees in WA are Aboriginal, despite them making up 4.5% of the population.

Link

 

[The Fool]

Whats being done is working. Its just that very very very little is being done.

Our record in this area is shamefull.

 

[marplots]

I have a friend who lives close to an Aboriginal settlement, and she sees old people being bullied, victimised and burgled with alarming regularity by blackfellas.

If they are committing the crimes, they should be jailed.

 

[theprestige]

Aussie has always wanted to be USA of the southern hemisphere, and now they can lay claim to a record not even the Yanks can beat:

Aboriginal Australians are locked up at a rate 53 times other residents of the Lucky Country.

>Australians.
>Can't be their own people.
>Can't own their own failures.
>An ocean away, and they still judge themselves not by their own standards, but relative to America.

When you succeed, you will not succeed on your own terms, according to your own ideals; but only by comparing yourself to America's successes.

 

[lionking]

If they are committing the crimes, they should be jailed.

Don't look to the Atheist for anything like a reasoned analysis of a complex problem. His reference to "reservations" displays a dismal understanding of the issue. There are no indigenous reservations.

 

[Southwind17]

Aboriginal Australians are locked up at a rate 53 times other residents of the Lucky Country.

80% of juvenile detainees in WA are Aboriginal, despite them making up 4.5% of the population.

Why not post some evidence to show that these stats are not an accurate and true reflection of the relative rate of serious crime committed by Aboriginals compared to non-Aboriginals.

It's the same argument in the USA with blacks. Relatively speaking, there are more black criminals than non-blacks.

Plain and simple.

 

[qayak]

Aussie has always wanted to be USA of the southern hemisphere, and now they can lay claim to a record not even the Yanks can beat:

Aboriginal Australians are locked up at a rate 53 times other residents of the Lucky Country.

Pity, that since they were there first, they didn't get some more of the luck.

From shooting them for sport only a century ago to the stolen generations to now, where they are either in jail or on a reservation drunk out of their minds, there can be little doubt that Australia has completely failed to preserve the culture, health or lifestyle of the original inhabitants.

I have a friend who lives close to an Aboriginal settlement, and she sees old people being bullied, victimised and burgled with alarming regularity by blackfellas.

I see no easy answers, but whatever's being done right now is clearly not working.

80% of juvenile detainees in WA are Aboriginal, despite them making up 4.5% of the population.

Link

Canada hasn't done much better with its First Nations people.

 

[qayak]

Why not post some evidence to show that these stats are not an accurate and true reflection of the relative rate of serious crime committed by Aboriginals compared to non-Aboriginals.

It's the same argument in the USA with blacks. Relatively speaking, there are more black criminals than non-blacks.

Plain and simple.

You fail to look at the bigger picture. As with Canadian First Nations people, if you take children away from their parents, teach them nothing about raising their own children, then abandon them in a no man's land, neither white, nor Native, after you have stripped them of everything, whose fault is it that they are criminals for generations into the future.

Throw in some unethical medical experiments on the effects of starvation on children's health, lots of molestation, and a bunch of wrongful convictions for major crimes.

Your post just reeks of racism.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

You fail to look at the bigger picture. As with Canadian First Nations people, if you take children away from their parents, teach them nothing about raising their own children, then abandon them in a no man's land, neither white, nor Native, after you have stripped them of everything, whose fault is it that they are criminals for generations into the future.

Throw in some unethical medical experiments on the effects of starvation on children's health, lots of molestation, and a bunch of wrongful convictions for major crimes.

Your post just reeks of racism.

Canada's record in its treatment of its indigenous people is piss awful and the current situation is pretty damn bad.

Per: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2015001/article/14163-eng.htm

Aboriginal adults are overrepresented in admissions to provincial/territorial correctional services, as they accounted for nearly one-quarter (24%) of admissions in 2013/2014 while representing 3% of the Canadian adult population (Table 4). Aboriginal adults to federal correctional services represented 20% of admissions to sentenced custody in 2013/2014.

Aboriginal people made up 26% of total custodial admissions in the provinces and territories in 2013/2014. This was higher than for admissions to community supervision, where Aboriginal people accounted for 23% of total community admissions.

Aboriginal females accounted for a higher proportion of female admissions to provincial/territorial sentenced custody (36%) than did Aboriginal males for male admissions (25%).

The country has been slowly moving in the right direction for a few decades now and the current government may actually address and resolve some of the outstanding issues.

 

[marplots]

You fail to look at the bigger picture. As with Canadian First Nations people, if you take children away from their parents, teach them nothing about raising their own children, then abandon them in a no man's land, neither white, nor Native, after you have stripped them of everything, whose fault is it that they are criminals for generations into the future.

Throw in some unethical medical experiments on the effects of starvation on children's health, lots of molestation, and a bunch of wrongful convictions for major crimes.

Your post just reeks of racism.

All of that is quite possible. But if I am to blame the Aussie authorities for creating a criminal class, don't I then have to accept that there is a criminal class? Placing blame doesn't make the current problems go away. Frankenstein's monster is still a monster, even if Frankenstein is as well.

 

[lionking]

All of that is quite possible. But if I am to blame the Aussie authorities for creating a criminal class, don't I then have to accept that there is a criminal class? Placing blame doesn't make the current problems go away. Frankenstein's monster is still a monster, even if Frankenstein is as well.

Using past injustice as an excuse for present criminal behaviour is quite common. It is also rather pathetic.

 

[The Atheist]

If they are committing the crimes, they should be jailed.

Uh - they are. That's the point.

When you succeed, you will not succeed on your own terms, according to your own ideals; but only by comparing yourself to America's successes.

Shouldn't be too hard to beat their lousy record. They've had an extra couple of hundred years and still screw up.

There are no indigenous reservations.

I'm well aware of that.

Nice of you to come up with intelligent addition to the discussion.

Why not post some evidence to show that these stats are not an accurate and true reflection of the relative rate of serious crime committed by Aboriginals compared to non-Aboriginals.

They obviously do get caught in those numbers, or else they wouldn't be going to jail. It's not an actual crime in Aussie to be a blackfella.

Not any more, anyway.

When one small part of society is turning to crime at 50 times the rate of everyone else, that is the problem. The answer will be to stop that happening.

 

[The Atheist]

Whats being done is working. Its just that very very very little is being done.

Our record in this area is shamefull.

It's not a lack of money, that's for sure, with 6% of total federal spending on 3% of the population.

Christ, at $40k a person a year, you'd think some progress would be made.

 

[marplots]

Using past injustice as an excuse for present criminal behaviour is quite common. It is also rather pathetic.

The danger would be in how the special class is treated based on being a special class. For example, if I wish to have one standard of criminality for non-aboriginal Australians and another for aboriginals. Maybe give them a 10-year credit on any jail sentence because of historical injustices.

Why do I think that's dangerous? Because it says, in effect, that aboriginals are defective because of their status as aboriginals. It would pre-define them and shape their destiny as second-class and childlike, exactly the thing that prevents them from becoming "regular" citizens.

If part of the aboriginal culture is going to include becoming a criminal, then so be it - it's their culture. If it's to be a culture of victims, then that's what it will be.

Isn't this history playing out as it always has when two cultures collide and some mixture survives - often skewed heavily toward the dominant culture?

How much of this is driven by the desire to preserve a culture that might already have gone extinct? Greenhousing comes with consequences. Zoo animals are neither domesticated, nor wild. They occupy some artificial zone from which they never escape and which requires constant upkeep. When I say, "I am responsible for these people" am I not also saying, in part, that they are not responsible for themselves?

 

[Southwind17]

You fail to look at the bigger picture. As with Canadian First Nations people, if you take children away from their parents, teach them nothing about raising their own children, then abandon them in a no man's land, neither white, nor Native, after you have stripped them of everything, whose fault is it that they are criminals for generations into the future.

Throw in some unethical medical experiments on the effects of starvation on children's health, lots of molestation, and a bunch of wrongful convictions for major crimes.

Your post just reeks of racism.

The Atheist seeks to support his view with statistics. I simply challenged his assertion on the basis that the statistics cited don't support it, and likened it to crime in the USA.

The big picture is irrelevant to my post; I was focusing in the veracity of the Atheist's argument by reference to unsupporting stats.

How can that possibly be racist?

Your post reeks of bias and lack of objectivity.

 

[Southwind17]

It's not an actual crime in Aussie to be a blackfella.

Meaning what - that Aboriginals are being falsely accused, or singled out, just like blacks are in the US???

 

[Brian-M]

Pity, that since they were there first, they didn't get some more of the luck.

They got plenty of luck when they arrived, it's just they used it all up over the last 40,000 years.

there can be little doubt that Australia has completely failed to preserve the culture, health or lifestyle of the original inhabitants.

a) Culture. Some of their culture still remains, so it's not a complete failure to preserve it. Besides, why would it be the non-Aboriginal's duty to preserve Aboriginal culture?

b) Health. That's right, we haven't preserved their original level of health. And that's a GOOD thing. Their average life-expectancy is around 70 years. (67.2 for men and 72.9 for women.) Sure, that may be lower than for the rest of us, and is something which desperately needs improvement, but do you think that they would have even had an average life-expectancy anywhere near that long before Europeans came along?

c) Lifestyle. Are you saying that we should force them to live as nomads, in a hunter-gatherer society, with no modern amenities and no written languages or infrastructure? If not, then you can't complain about not preserving their original lifestyle, because that's what their original lifestyle was.

The main problem is that many Aboriginals are trapped in a cycle of poverty and disenfranchisement, and there are many groups suffering from isolation from mainstream society.

I think that (a small) part of the problem is that people want to think of Aboriginal culture as something to be cherished and preserved, which acts as a damper for efforts to alleviate poverty and improve quality of life, because potentially effective methods of intervention that might be considered as disruptive of Aboriginal culture and communities are less likely to be implemented.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Aboriginal Australians are locked up at a rate 53 times other residents of the Lucky Country.

That's rich.

The whole of Australia was a prison and all of the Europeans who were put there were criminals. Many of them still are...

 

[theprestige]

Shouldn't be too hard to beat their lousy record.

And yet the thesis of this thread is that Australia can't beat the American record.

They've had an extra couple of hundred years and still screw up.

Not as badly as Australia, apparently.

Not that it matters. America doesn't judge its successes and failures in term of Australia. Have you considered comparing yourselves to Soviet Russia? Relative to the holodomor and the gulags, I imagine Australia come out looking pretty good.

 

[The Atheist]

The Atheist seeks to support his view with statistics. I simply challenged his assertion on the basis that the statistics cited don't support it, and likened it to crime in the USA.

In what way do rates of poverty, violence, crime, and especially domestic/family abuse many times the average not constitute a problem existing?

Meaning what - that Aboriginals are being falsely accused, or singled out, just like blacks are in the US???

No: aren't you an Australian and already know this? (I was hoping someone would ask.) I was referring to it being exactly 200 years since it was made legal to shoot blacks on sight in NSW.

a) Culture. Some of their culture still remains, so it's not a complete failure to preserve it. Besides, why would it be the non-Aboriginal's duty to preserve Aboriginal culture?

I kind of look at it as a resonsibility of the people who reduced the numbers of indigenous people by 90% or so.

If we are directly responsible for the destruction of an entire culture, I think it's a little incumbent on their descendants to help.

b) Health. That's right, we haven't preserved their original level of health. And that's a GOOD thing. Their average life-expectancy is around 70 years. (67.2 for men and 72.9 for women.) Sure, that may be lower than for the rest of us, and is something which desperately needs improvement, but do you think that they would have even had an average life-expectancy anywhere near that long before Europeans came along?

That is beautiful!

Focus on the improvement in their lifespan - which would not have differed much from Europeans at the time and ignore the stark reality today that their life spans are 16% lower than the average.

That is 14 years of each Aboriginal life.

You're right, why would anyone care about that?

c) Lifestyle.

I'm referring to dysfunction, not nomadic lifestyles.

The main problem is that many Aboriginals are trapped in a cycle of poverty and disenfranchisement, and there are many groups suffering from isolation from mainstream society.

There you go - I'm not going to disagree with that.

The bare expenditure numbers should tell you that resolution will be good for everyone.

And yet the thesis of this thread is that Australia can't beat the American record.

No, that was a throwaway remark - the point of the thread is that Aboriginals are in terrible shape in every aspect of their lives.

As has been pointed out, that is common for many indigenous people now living in white countries - and Aussie & USA are two of them.

NZ is no white angel, but I think Maori are in considerably better shape than either Aussies' Aboriginals or native inhabitants of the North American continent. Are there lessons to be learned from NZ?

I think it's possible.