Aug 1st 1914: Germany Declares War On Russia...

[dudalb]

First major declaration of War in the First World War.
You can argue that Aug 28 1914 was the starting point because on that day Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia,but the German declaration of war on Germany ended any possibility that the war could be "localized".

 

[Manopolus]

First major declaration of War in the First World War.
You can argue that Aug 28 1914 was the starting point because on that day Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia,but the German declaration of war on Germany ended any possibility that the war could be "localized".

You might want to fix that.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Funny that the Telegraph Archive twitter account just posted this. Just like with the pre$$titutes today, there seems to be a discrepancy between the headline and the article.

 

[Beerina]

Isn't there some historical society that plans on tweeting WWI day by day as it happened 100 years ago?

Let me Google that for me: https://mobile.twitter.com/RealTimeWW1

There's. a wwi one but it seems strange.

 

[theprestige]

First major declaration of War in the First World War.
You can argue that Aug 28 1914 was the starting point because on that day Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia,but the German declaration of war on Germany ended any possibility that the war could be "localized".

I think that ship had probably already sailed by the time Germany declared war.

 

[dudalb]

I think that ship had probably already sailed by the time Germany declared war.

Oh, I agree...the only thing that might have localized it was the "Stop In Belgrade" proposol but Austria rejected that out of hand.
Still, I think the actual declaration of War on Russia was a milestone.Once that happened it was like dominoes falling,thanks largely to the ridigity of the German Schefflin plan,which meant that going to war with Russia meant automatically attacking France ,which meant invading Belgium,which meant bringing the UK in.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Do we know who won?

 

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by dudalb

First major declaration of War in the First World War.
You can argue that Aug 28 1914 was the starting point because on that day Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia,but the German declaration of war on Germany ended any possibility that the war could be "localized".

You might want to fix that, writes Manopolous. You might also want to fix Aug 28 as well. It was July.

 

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by dudalb

You might want to fix that, writes Manopolous. You might also want to fix Aug 28 as well. It was July.

Mea culpa,you are right.....typo.

 

[catsmate]

Do we know who won?

No-one.


And as it's 02AUG today, at least where I am now, it's the centenary of the first real fighting of the Western theatre, at Jonchery, and the beginning of the invasion of Luxembourg and the siege of Longwy.

The Prussians! The Prussians are coming!

 

[Craig B]

No-one.


And as it's 02AUG today, at least where I am now, it's the centenary of the first real fighting of the Western theatre, at Jonchery, and the beginning of the invasion of Luxembourg and the siege of Longwy.

The last compressed air powered tram was withdrawn from service in Paris on that day, I read in a book recently. They soon had more to worry about than public transport modernisation.

 

[rjh01]

Do we know who won?

It was the USA. It was the start of them becoming a super power. It all but destroyed the European powers. And Japan. For not having a major part in the war. They were then allowed to grow, so could play a major role in WW2.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It was the USA. It was the start of them becoming a super power. It all but destroyed the European powers. And Japan. For not having a major part in the war. They were then allowed to grow, so could play a major role in WW2.

Actually, the US had the largest industrial establishment of any country in 1914, with Russia second. The USN was only exceeded by the RN. We were, for all intents and purposes, a superpower by 1910.

 

[MG1962]

Actually, the US had the largest industrial establishment of any country in 1914, with Russia second. The USN was only exceeded by the RN. We were, for all intents and purposes, a superpower by 1910.

But at the time US influence did lag compared to the various factors you mentioned. And it was attitude not reserved for the US. You did not have a grand tradition of arts, war, and the other things that made Europe exceptionalism so precious to them.

Most importantly the US, like some other countries, simply did not want to play by European rules. This automatically made you crass, uneducated ruffins who did not even know the best wine to serve with pheasant, or grow a respectable distinguished beard.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

But at the time US influence did lag compared to the various factors you mentioned. And it was attitude not reserved for the US. You did not have a grand tradition of arts, war, and the other things that made Europe exceptionalism so precious to them.

Failing to catch Pancho Villa did take away some of our panache.

Most importantly the US, like some other countries, simply did not want to play by European rules. This automatically made you crass, uneducated ruffins who did not even know the best wine to serve with pheasant, or grow a respectable distinguished beard.

And that grand old world "frontal assault against prepared positions with lots of machine guns" thing, we weren't into that either.


BTW, I once did a study that indicated the average German position could put one MG bullet through every foot of front every second.

 

[lobosrul]

Actually, the US had the largest industrial establishment of any country in 1914, with Russia second. The USN was only exceeded by the RN. We were, for all intents and purposes, a superpower by 1910.

Are you sure about that? I count 10 USN Dreadnought's done by the summer of 1914 (the S Carolina, Delaware, Florida, Wyoming, and New York classes each class of 2 ships), and no battlecruisers. The Kaiserliche Marine had the 4 Nassau class, the 4 Helgoland class, the 5 Kaiser class, and the 4 König class battleships (although a couple of them weren't quite commissioned by the start of hostilities), plus an additional 4 battlecruisers. For a total of 21 capital ships.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Are you sure about that? I count 10 USN Dreadnought's done by the summer of 1914 (the S Carolina, Delaware, Florida, Wyoming, and New York classes each class of 2 ships), and no battlecruisers. The Kaiserliche Marine had the 4 Nassau class, the 4 Helgoland class, the 5 Kaiser class, and the 4 König class battleships (although a couple of them weren't quite commissioned by the start of hostilities), plus an additional 4 battlecruisers. For a total of 21 capital ships.

Yep, my bad. I was thinking of the "75% Plan", which wasn't completed yet. The plan was for the USN to be pegged at 75% of the RN. The KM wanted to be at 50% of the RN. The RN wanted to equal the next two navies, who wanted to be, collectively, 125% of the RN. Spiral time.

 

[Craig B]

And that grand old world "frontal assault against prepared positions with lots of machine guns" thing, we weren't into that either.

BTW, I once did a study that indicated the average German position could put one MG bullet through every foot of front every second.

Mmm. Here is the German view as of 1918.

The Germans Staff after the start of the Argonne Offensive put it rather brutally in one of their analyses:

The American Infantry is very unskillful in the attack. It attacks in thick columns, in numerous waves echeloned in depth, preceded by tanks. This sort of attack offers excellent objectives for the fire of our artillery, infantry and machine guns.


In 1989 Historian and Army Officer Rod Paschall analyzed what had happened to the AEF.

It had gone wrong. [in the Argonne]. Even in the best of conditions it was doubtful whether nine divisions could be supported over such a poor network of roads. The Americans were tied to a simple but inflexible plan that called for attacking on line, anchoring flanks with the advance of neighboring units, and keeping within the confines of divisional boundaries, a system that the Germans had learned to abandon long before.

... American doctrine was based on the 1917 Field Service Regulations, which were hardly revised from the prewar 1911 version. The manual specified that the attack should be conducted under the conditions of fire superiority , with advance achieved by infantry rushes. Fire superiority was to be gained by accurate rifle fire. For the Americans, the bane of Western Front attackers--the machine gun--was viewed as a "weapon of emergency". . .To be sure, artillery would assist the infantry, but the soul of an American assault was the rifleman.

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/doctrine.htm

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Who you gonna believe? Me or the Huns?

 

[Craig B]

Who you gonna believe? Me or the Huns?

Well, here's an American commentator, same source. The goddam Huns must have reprogrammed him.

There was no question that the individual American soldier [in the Great War] fought, and fought well. But the types of attacks they were conducting were extremely costly. Their leaders appeared to have no concern for losses. The American assault was little more than a human wave into the face of German machine guns, a weapon that the Americans treated with contempt. Their doctrine favored the rifle, yet except for a few highly skilled marksmen their use of that weapon appeared to be little different than that of their European counterparts.

Historian and Army Officer Rod Paschall, 1989.