Attacks on Africans expose India's racist inclinations

[Klimax]

My understanding is that it reversed, at least for white people in GB, when the relation of wealth to skin tone became: "poor people work all day in factories and never leave the country, so are pale; rich people vacation frequently in warm climates, so are tan."

You're right. I wasn't just sure how prevalent in other countries it was. (In case of Czech Republic it was upgraded thanks to coming out of communism and lifted travel restrictions)

ETA: Don't know in this regard much about pre-WW2 First Republic.

 

[blutoski]

You're right. I wasn't just sure how prevalent in other countries it was. (In case of Czech Republic it was upgraded thanks to coming out of communism and lifted travel restrictions)

ETA: Don't know in this regard much about pre-WW2 First Republic.

I asked a relative about this. My biological family is still in Eastern Europe, and they all lived through the fall of the Berlin Wall &c. At least in northern republics (eg: Lithuania), having a tan was regarded as a healthy look prior to 1990.

And even prior to the lifting of travel restrictions, there were sunny vacation destinations.

I recall visiting a bar in Germany that was once in GDR territory, retaining its authentic 1980s vintage Caribbean decor. East Germans could save up and vacation in Cuba, so when they came back it was nice to relive that in a Cuban themed local eatery. Kinda like a Communist Trader Vic's.

And it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

Firstly, half the bric a brac in there is South Pacific Island / Hawaiian. The images and statuettes are all of long haired maidens, not Caribs or West Indian Africans. The music was steel guitar (instead of steel drum - did they just think it was close enough?)

To their credit, the new owners leveraged the decor so now it's a "80s Communist Retro" theme.

 

[Roboramma]

I remember an issue a few years ago with companies in India marketing skin lighteners for women, since darker skin is often considered less attractive and less desirable.

That's pretty common all over south east asia. People use whitening creams here in China, though I noticed the ads more when I lived in Hong Kong, that might just be because I went to cinemas more often there (which I where I'd see the ads).

They have a toothpaste here called "Darlie" which used to be called "Darkie" and the Chinese name of the brand still translates literally as "black person toothpaste" with the idea, I guess, being that black people have especially white teeth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie

Darky, or darkie, is a term used primarily in the United Kingdom and United States to refer to black people, and is now generally considered disrespectful. The packaging featured an image of a wide-eyed, smiling dark-skinned black male wearing a top hat, monocle and bow-tie, an image resembling minstrelsy.

In 1990, after Colgate-Palmolive acquired Hawley & Hazel, the English name of the toothpaste was changed to "Darlie", and the image on the packaging was altered to show a racially ambiguous face in a top hat to avoid racial misunderstanding.[2] However, the Chinese name of the brand, "黑人牙膏" (in English, "Black Person Toothpaste"), remains the same, and a Chinese-language advertising campaign reassured customers that "Black Person Toothpaste is still Black Person Toothpaste".[3]

After the Colgate acquisition the toothpaste continued to be sold in some Asian countries, including China, Malaysia and Thailand where its brand and logo are not considered offensive. Colgate announced the product would not be sold outside of Asia.[4] As of 1989, the toothpaste held a 75% market share in Taiwan, 50% in Singapore, 30% in Malaysia and Hong Kong and 20% in Thailand.[5]

 

[Roboramma]

I had a personal experience with something that wasn't exactly racism but is similar, while I was living in India. I was there when the Iraq war started and that day I was walking down the street when I a group of men jumped out of a rickshaw and very aggressively surrounded and started yelling at me in Kanada (the local language in Karnataka province).

Luckily an Indian woman I knew was walking by and told them off and they left me alone. This all took place over a very short period of time so there was no chance for any violence, but the smell was definitely in the air. Later when I asked her "what was that about?" she just said "they were Muslims".

Here's an anecdote about China, of which I could go on and on, but I found this one funny. I was having dinner with a Chinese friend of mine (this is 10 or 11 years ago) and we started talking about cutlery. He made the argument that you could tell a society's level of civilisation based on what it used as an eating utensil. The least advanced were those who ate with their hands, the most advanced, obviously, were the Chinese who use chopsticks, the knife and fork style being somewhere in between.

 

[marplots]

The whitening/lightening creams I've seen weren't sold so much as an overall lightening thing but as a way to lighten darker patches to give a more even tone and conceal blotches, especially on visible skin around the face and neckline.

 

[ahhell]

Xenophobia is nearly a human universal, we shouldn't be surprised by this.

 

[Roboramma]

The whitening/lightening creams I've seen weren't sold so much as an overall lightening thing but as a way to lighten darker patches to give a more even tone and conceal blotches, especially on visible skin around the face and neckline.

That doesn't seem to be how they are advertised. (ETA: In SE Asia, anyway, I'm not trying to contradict that the marketing you have seen exists)

See for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpayDMlNoh8


Also I can say that there are plenty of "whitening" products that are incorporated into other all purpose things like soaps and moisturisers. I don't think those are intended for blotches given that they are applied over the whole body.

See for instance: https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/TH/whitening-soap.html

(This stuff is even more popular in Thailand than china, but: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/chinese-whitening-soap.html)

I can also attest to many women in China wanting to have whiter skin, avoiding the sun in order to avoid getting a tan (to the point that they will use an umbrella when walking in the street on a sunny day).

Many years ago I was dating a girl from the Philippines and my boss wanted to give her a gift so she gave her a bunch of skin whitening products, assuming that she would like them. Her skin was perfect (definitely free of any blotches), but a little on the dark side, though she's actually sort of light skinned compared to other Filipinos.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced that this is down to racism. It may be a cultural thing to do with farmers working outdoors and tending to get tan whereas higher status, richer, people tend not to work outdoors.

 

[marplots]

That doesn't seem to be how they are advertised. (ETA: In SE Asia, anyway, I'm not trying to contradict that the marketing you have seen exists)

Yeah, this was Detroit, targeted at African Americans. I looked one up and here is the typical advertising blurb:

"Caspah has taken the lightening cream market by storm by creating safe and effective skin lightening creams that helps with the many skin blemishes experienced by people of all races. These blemishes come from many things such as scars, hyperpigmentation, birthmarks, dark underarms, age spots, and even a darker intimate area skin tone than usual."

I do know that overall tone lightening is done by some blacks, but it's controversial (in my opinion) because of implications of racism. Silly, I know.

 

[Graham2001]

Xenophobia is nearly a human universal, we shouldn't be surprised by this.

Indeed, two of the most surprising moments of racism I have encountered have involved 'Black-on-Black' racism (Australian Aboriginal screaming at East Africans to "...go back where you came from...".) and Black-on-Asian (In that case the perpetrator told me that her gran had been raped by a white man and that was she was doing was "Just the white blood talking.".)

 

[Caper]

Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.
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Not the first time? Western whites are now probably the least racist.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Is anyone here aware of any historical examples of non-black societies/groups who haven't ended up having approximately the same set of "prejudices" against blacks?

I'm unaware of any examples. It would be interesting if Eskimos randomly had a stereotype about blacks that they are exceptionally quiet, studious, and emotionally closed off. Slow to excite, etc.

If there were an example like that it might indicate that stereotypes are baseless but instead it seems like all non-blacks have arrived at pretty much the same impression and that this has been very consistent throughout history, too.

 

[ahhell]

Is anyone here aware of any historical examples of non-black societies/groups who haven't ended up having approximately the same set of "prejudices" against blacks?

I'm unaware of any examples. It would be interesting if Eskimos randomly had a stereotype about blacks that they are exceptionally quiet, studious, and emotionally closed off. Slow to excite, etc.

If there were an example like that it might indicate that stereotypes are baseless but instead it seems like all non-blacks have arrived at pretty much the same impression and that this has been very consistent throughout history, too.

Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

 

[ahhell]

Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.




http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-africans-expose-indias-racist-inclinations/a-38207117

Have you ever talked to an east Asian that wasn't raised in the West?

Anecdote: I had a chinese land lady/house mate that wouldn't rent to a black guy that was about the nerdiest dude I've ever met because he was black.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

"Africans" meaning non-black Egyptians, Carthaginians, etc.

Not sub-Saharan black people. Don't be dishonest.

 

[ahhell]

"Africans" meaning non-black Egyptians, Carthaginians, etc.

Not sub-Saharan black people. Don't be dishonest.

Its not being dishonest, they basically had the reverse of modern stereotypes. The lighter your skin the more violent and impulsive you were, the darker your skin the more intellectual and effete you were. There exposure to Africans was largely limited to North Africans with the occasional Nubian.

 

[Caper]

Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

I'd love to know the lefty institution that cooked up this little nugget.

 

[Caper]

Its not being dishonest, they basically had the reverse of modern stereotypes. The lighter your skin the more violent and impulsive you were, the darker your skin the more intellectual and effete you were. There exposure to Africans was largely limited to North Africans with the occasional Nubian.

You are making stuff up. Stop it.

 

[Klimax]

I'd love to know the lefty institution that cooked up this little nugget.

You are making stuff up. Stop it.

You may want to read up on subject. Currently you are quite ignorant on that stuff.

Hint: Ancient Egypt and others from Northern Africa and Middle East versus "barbaric" tribes from Europe.

 

[EHocking]

...Anecdote: I had a chinese land lady/house mate that wouldn't rent to a black guy that was about the nerdiest dude I've ever met because he was black.

I didn't realise being black caused nerdism.

 

[Giz]

I didn't realise being black caused nerdism.

Meh, given that the Roman definition of African covered semite folks such as the carthaginians it's more of a "Jews are nerds" stereotype that the Romans were rocking.