Athiests & Agnostics - if you believed in God ... Pt. 1

[danielk]

But now this discussion is getting into the meaning of Santa. And I'm sure we've all got opinions on that!

You betcha. Down with parentism, I say!

 

[articulett]

Bokonon's god is better than your god.

I like DoubtingStephens god better. She could surely smite Bokonon's god if she was feeling surly.

 

[Leicontis]

I consider myself a "Hopeful Agnostic" - basically, I know that there's no evidence for or against the existence of an afterlife or deity (absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence), but I hope their is, and try to believe in the kind of universe that makes sence and feels good.

As such, the deity I try (and often fail) to believe in is a non-interventionist God. This God is at least effectively omnipotent and omniscient. However, due to the fact that being an omnipotent/omniscient being would be very boring, this God created the universe, setting up its physical laws and starting things off (Big Bang), with the aim of eventually producing one or more sentient species. Essentially, we are God's reality show. This God in some way(s) (I've thought of several possible ways) observes the universe and the life in it as a form of entertainment, intentionally not predicting what we'll do next so as to allow us free will. Thus, we are able to surprise God. Any interventions by such a God would be extremely subtle, such as moments of inspiration and/or mood alterations, or selectively chosen results of random events.

What are the big things that make life interesting? Challenges, surprises, and interaction with others (sort of a subset of the other two). Think about what it would be like to exist as a lone, omnipotent/omniscient entity: You're alone, so you cannot interact except with yourself. You know everything, so nothing surprises you. Omnipotence means nothing is a challenge except you. The only way to entertain yourself would be to create one or more entities that are outside yourself, and that you specifically refrain/prevent yourself from predicting.

I know this God is created in our image - given the nature of the human mind, that seems rather difficult to avoid...

 

[scotth]

Answering the OP without reading (contaminating my mind with) the other answers.....

Q1 - If I believed in a god, it would be because there was evidence for one. I guess it would be however the evidence said it was. If there really is a god today, it is the kind of god that enjoys acting just like one that doesn't exist.

Q2 - Reasonable, kind, and willing to share its knowledge of the universe. Maybe even one willing to pitch in a hand once in a while solving big problems, like say, global warming. And one willing to make a personal appearance once in a while and say something like, hey morons, cut it out.

 

[Furi]

Mew Mew Mew, Jesus Jesus Jesus

if we could all carry a little personal god around with us, we could amuse ourselves by having them duke it out to alleviate the boredom, would also stop all religious bickering, you could just settle down for a good battle between yourselves

we have to be on our guard against cheaters though

=^..^=
(A 6! blow it out your ear Pikachu)

 

[Dogdoctor]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I am agnostic so not offended by these questions. If I believed in a god he/she/it would be a powerful entity who isn't all powerful or all knowing , who sits back and makes minor little changes in our world of chaos and suffering. He doesn't fix much because he wants us to be self regulating and the only way for that to happen is for us to evolve into that creature. Why? .....because it that is the only way I can imagine a god with the world the way it is.
If I got to choose a god then I would choose one that would keep me and the rest of the world from suffering and also was everyones best friend.

 

[-Fran-]

Some people responded to the questions so the questions couldn't have been meaningless. I guess I figured if the question was meaningless to people they wouldn't respond.

People do meaningless things for no particular reason all the time, just for fun, or whatever... Getting a response for a certain action does not prove that the action is meaningfull. A person can come here and write a post that consists of nothing else than:

Xggn ---

And someone would probably still respond to it. Trolls are constantly getting lots of responses here, no matter how meaningless their posts are. So I guess another criteria must be used to conclude if a post is meaningfull or not.

----

I agree that the first question is meaningless, and the second is meaningless to me personally, since I have no wish for some sort of god.

I'm surprised though that no one has answered that if they wish there was a god, that they would want to be the god? Or did I miss it?

Correction:
Some of you did wish you were the god Sloppy reading on my part!

 

[quarky]

speaking of god:

how come jesus isn't referred to as the "son of Mary"?
Then Mary could be god, instead of the god-dude.
She was evidently caring, and kind. She probably breast fed her baby.
He, otoh, was sort of a dick.

 

[pchams]

Gods are for fools.

ETA: There are no christian skeptics.
Anyone who believes in a magical being without evidence is not skeptical, no matter what some of the religious apologists on this board would have you believe.

 

[sackett]

Everybody brought up in an Abrahamic-oriented society (i.e., among Jews, Christians, or Moslems) knows perfectly well what God is like, whether you believe in Him or not:

An overpowering great big man up in the sky with fierce eyebrows and a huge white beard! He wants you and you and particularly YOU, the atheist hiding over there, to cringe, wail, grovel, and pray! To HIM, and only to HIM!

And then die! die! and go to the reward He decrees, no arguments: Heaven for a tiny minority, the ones who cringed, etc. lower and more basely than the others. All the rest of you will go to HELL! and be tortured unspeakably forever, worse and worse all the time! So what if your sins (and only He defines a sin, and keeps some of them secret just because He likes to) were puny and finite? Great big overpowering guys up in the sky care nothing for that! Suck it up, sinnerz! Yahweh Yahweh YAHWEH!!!!

I don't care about Matt and his sweet reason. Christian Sceptic and me, we know the true truth.

 

[Beerina]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

The only ethical, sentient creator (I won't limit it by the word "god") I could believe in (i.e. not have 100% disdain for) are:

- A creator who had good intentions, but, once the universe turned out to allow the soddomizing deaths of infants, had difficulty stopping it. This necessitates a lack of omniscience, and a lack of omnipotence (beyond mere non-omniscience.)

- A creator who had the permission of everybody who appears in this world. Full, informed permission.

This would necessitate the pre-existence of said people, although I suppose a pedant could suggest an all-knowing god would know people who, once created, would post-facto approve what was done. I believe we have enough evidence to suggest many people would find what was done to them via their creation to be unethical. They wouldn't reverse it, as that would lead to their non-existence. But that does not justify it to begin with.

In both these cases, "creator" could be a very finite individual, similar to ourselves, if not slightly stupider.

By the way, any god-like Power from Vernor Vinge's famous A Fire Upon The Deep could effortlessly whip up a hundred trillion simulations of Earth and all the people in it, including "devices like us". I find it hard to believe a creature like Yahweh would be less capable, even ignoring omnipotence and omniscience.

Vinge even had a name for god-like creatures like Yahweh: Class 2 Perversion

 

[Beerina]

I believe the One True Lesbian Navajo Warrior faith would, in fact, interpret this as a chariot, not a wheelchair. Still, thanks for the visual.

Peter Griffin Voice: Ye...yeah? Would this lesbian warrior goddess turn me into a gorgeous female and force me to serve her, and do vile, degrading things to her? Degrading to me, that is.

Is this thread about gods you could believe in given what you see around you, or gods you hope actually exist?

 

[Pardalis]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I don't know, that's why I'm agnostic. I can't wrap my mind around that concept.

 

[quarky]

being all powerful is no cake walk, evidently.
If I had a choice, I would lean towards poly-theism.
I like the idea of lots of gods. Spread the blame and the worship.
All powerful seems like a bad idea.

Still, it gives me a chuckle when people reject the idea of God because of how screwed up stuff is. Why can't god be an ********* Our president is. Seems somewhat analogous.

God isn't the problem.
Morality is.
Morality is always self-serving.
Morality allows the righteous stance.
It reminds me of racism.

The cause of racism is racial pride.
Its hard to hate without first having an innate sense of superiority.
Our various gods play into our hands, to promote our bias.

Your wrongness empowers my rightness.
Science runs the risk of falling into the same trap.

Love, otoh, is something else.
It needs to be invented soon, for survival's sake.

 

[Robin]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I made an honest attempt to answer, but failed. If I believed God existed I could not describe what He would be like.

The only meaningful adjective I could apply to God would be "incomprehensible"

 

[-Fran-]

Still, it gives me a chuckle when people reject the idea of God because of how screwed up stuff is. Why can't god be an ********* Our president is. Seems somewhat analogous.

I'm not sure.. but when I have seen arguments in that vein, it has usually been about rejecting the claim of an all-good, and all-loving god. The argument doesn't seem to say that we reject god only because the world is bad, but that if god exists the state of the world would show that he is indeed a first class A-hole

 

[ninjamessiah]

If I believed in God I'd start the First Muslim Zen Church of Christ and base it on the principle that Lucifer created the world's religions to separate cultures and cause war.

I used to postulate as a stoner in physics class in high school that God was simply gravity. It is a constant inescapable force in all things living and non living whose sole intent is to bring everything back together into singularity.

 

[fishkr]

Answering the OP without reading (contaminating my mind with) the other answers.....

Like you said:

In a perfect world (!) God would be an amalgam of R. Dawkins, Mila Jajovich and William S. Burroughs, with overtones of ground raw almonds and cherries, have good legs and a strong, clean finish. He/she should also be a competent spey caster, decent skier and love puppies, etc., etc.

 

[Lonewulf]

If I believed in God I'd start the First Muslim Zen Church of Christ and base it on the principle that Lucifer created the world's religions to separate cultures and cause war.

Why do you need to drag Lucifer down to that level? Satan's done nothing but good in the bible; he brought humanity wisdom and the ability to tell right from wrong. He offered Jesus help when he was suffering in the desert thanks to his sky-daddy. He told the truth whereas God lied (like about the fruit thing, and what fruit will do to humans). Sure, he was an ass from time to time, but jeez... God's the bad guy, not lucifer.

Of course, if you read Genesis one way, Lucifer didn't do anything with the apple, and it was just the snake that did it. (I mean, why curse the snake to crawl on it's belly for all time if it was just the devil in snake form?) But still, c'mon!

 

[Pardalis]

Mila Jajovich

Milla Jovovich. Now I can wrap my mind around that idea, and more...