Atheists to rip up Bible

[Cainkane1]

This is immature. If you're an atheist give your bible away and don't read it.

 

[dasmiller]

Well, I went down to HB to see the event, and made several observations.

Observation #1: I'd make a lousy reporter.

Observation #2: Saturday afternoon beach crowds are not, for the most part, all that interested in religion. In fact, many of the nominally-religious beachgoers are hoping that in the next several hours, they'll have the opportunity to do one or more things that probably conflict some of their religions' tenets, and this makes any beach-front discussions of morality a bit awkward. Occasionally, passers-by would momentarily combine their religious beliefs with their partying plans to form interjections like (not making this up) "Jesus is Lord, woooohoooooo!"

Observation #3: Saturday afternoon beach crowds are, however, mildly interested in seeing noisy disputes. But only for a few minutes, and certainly not long enough for it to interfere with their afternoon plans.

Anyway, it was several atheist carrying signs

. . . having a 'debate' with one of the local street ministers who I think was named "Greg."

Greg spoke very loudly, interrupted a lot, frequently repeated himself, and I often had no idea exactly what point he was addressing. There wasn't much of a crowd at first, though people accumulated over time, particularly during the period when I'd wandered of down the pier because I'd seen an interesting kite,

and then was curious about what else was on the pier, so- well, that takes us back to Observation #1.

Before I wandered off, the atheists were still discussing among themselves whether or not to do the bible-tearing thing. Evidently they decided to go ahead with it, because they ripped at least one page after I got back from my walk down the pier.

The crowd didn't seem terribly outraged by the page-tearing, so if the atheists were going for shock value (and hopefully they weren't), they completely failed. That being said, the atheists certainly came off as more pleasant and reasonable than "Greg," and while the crowd was not generally on the atheists' side, I don't think they thought much of "Greg," either.

While the noisy argument in the middle held most peoples' attention, there were occasional earnest side-discussions between individual atheists and passersby. While these discussions occasionally got fairly passionate (on both sides), the ones I heard were always very civil and respectful, and I have to give those involved (on both sides) big credit for that. Can't say the same for "Greg," I'm afraid.

By then it was 2:30 and I wandered off again, because it was far too pleasant a day to spend listening to people argue loudly about a topic with which I'm already familiar. Which, again, takes us back to Observation #1.

 

[angrysoba]

What we are doing is having a conversation on a topic of some mild interest.

I hope that's all right?

Would we have a discussion over the ethics of someone ripping up a telephone directory?

I think it concedes too much to those who believe the book is imbued with magical powers to either:

a) rip up a Bible with the intention of causing controversy

b) give their antics airtime

 

[AvalonXQ]

Would we have a discussion over the ethics of someone ripping up a telephone directory?

A telephone directory, no.

An encyclopedia volume, very likely.

A Heinlein novel, almost certainly.

 

[dasmiller]

A telephone directory, no.

An encyclopedia volume, very likely.

A Heinlein novel, almost certainly.

Now, are we talking The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress or
The Cat Who Walks Through Walls?

 

[slingblade]

Would we have a discussion over the ethics of someone ripping up a telephone directory?

Gee, I don't know. Kind of depends on why, I guess.

I think it concedes too much to those who believe the book is imbued with magical powers to either:

a) rip up a Bible with the intention of causing controversy

b) give their antics airtime

And I think that you have every right to think that, or anything else you want to think. I think you have every right to bump this thread up just to tell us this.

I think you should do as you like, and I shall do as I like.

I do hope that's all right with you? I'm concerned, of course.

 

[Robrob]

Anyone who intentionally goes out of his way to antagonize a group of people is a self serving jerk. No different than going to a Star Trek convention and heckling the Klingons.

 

[Lamuella]

Would we have a discussion over the ethics of someone ripping up a telephone directory?

if it were a telephone directory that a large group of people thought was special, and someone was ripping it up essentially to say "this book isn't special", then yes.

It comes back to "don't be a dick".

 

[FireGarden]

There wasn't much of a crowd at first, though people accumulated over time, particularly during the period when I'd wandered of down the pier because I'd seen an interesting kite,
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=734&pictureid=5020[/qimg]
and then was curious about what else was on the pier, so- well, that takes us back to Observation #1.

Love the Pirate Ship kite. That would have been a brilliant attention grabber if America were an FSM fearing country.

sorry, what were we talking about?... Ohh yes.

"Atheists Vow To Engage In Abominable Activities In Public!"

followed, of course, by eating of shrimp, wearing of mixed fabrics, etc. And a disclaimer that "we won't be committing genocide or enslaving people, because those aren't abominations according to the Bible"

But with the evidence of distractions given above, I think a kite with the theme of eating shrimps while wearing mixed fabrics would have been ideal.

 

[angrysoba]

if it were a telephone directory that a large group of people thought was special, and someone was ripping it up essentially to say "this book isn't special", then yes.

It comes back to "don't be a dick".

Just curious, what is this "don't be a dick" thing people keep talking about?

I realize that this may look like an unintentionally funny thing to say but I get the impression there's a sort of manifesto out there for godless people which uses this as its version of the hippocratic oath.

 

[FireGarden]

Just curious, what is this "don't be a dick" thing people keep talking about?

I realize that this may look like an unintentionally funny thing to say but I get the impression there's a sort of manifesto out there for godless people which uses this as its version of the hippocratic oath.

Kind of like the first rule is: do no harm

Some people will say "things will get worse before they get better". But that usually means: "in spite of our best efforts, things will get worse before they get better" not "because of our efforts, things will get worse before they get better".

As for "don't be a dick", I think that's advice from Phil Plait:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmP9XozKEV0

 

[dasmiller]

As for "don't be a dick", I think that's advice from Phil Plait:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmP9XozKEV0

That's exactly the source. I agree with Phil, though his view is not universally accepted.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

They'd do so much better if they'd draw the crowd by claiming they were going to shred it, then just shred it figuratively by quoting a long string of internal contradictions in The Bible. They could even give away the highlighted bible to a church or something (and let THEM be dicks by refusing it.) ....

That is an excellent idea.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well, I went down to HB to see the event, and made several observations.

Observation #1: I'd make a lousy reporter. ....

I disagree. That's was an excellent account. Thanks.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's exactly the source. I agree with Phil, though his view is not universally accepted.

I think some of us don't agree on just what constitutes dickishness. Tearing up a Bible is a tad dickish in most circumstances. Phil thinks challenging god beliefs (as opposed to challenging specific claims) is dickish most of the time. I don't.

 

[BStrong]

Bad idea.

Street theater is usually a bad idea in the fight for hearts and minds.

 

[dasmiller]

That is an excellent idea.

Actually, they had printed out some verses in a very large font (so that it was readable at a distance) and at first* they were tearing up the printouts rather than actually ripping pages from the bible. I liked that approach much better. Ah, well.

*at least, I saw the printout-tearing before I saw the page-tearing. But I had wandered off for a bit.

 

[BStrong]

Since you admit, Atheism is the lack of belief in any gods. How did you get the proof of your lack of belief, if you don't believe in religion or the bible to have the proof?

You are still in a paradox and very confused trying to come up with some form of logical and sensible reply when there are none. When anything you say, is contradictory and going to be bullocks. Understand, no matter what you say, again understand no matter what you say, YOU CAN'T BEAT TRUTH.

I have just killed Atheism, thanks to God who gave me, anyone who has a religion, believes, this simple statement to say. Since you were all too stupid to agree with me that you shouldn't use the calendar, now look where it has headed. You shouldn't use Atheism.

If you are a Christian or Believer and atheism annoys you, PLEASE spread this simple statement to defend any RELIGION and bring down Atheism. "Atheism has a lack of belief in God(s), you use religion to form a lack of belief, do you believe in the proof of your lack of belief, since you think religion, the bible, isn't proof?" - Novest, i will say my real name on here soon.

You can't beat truth, which is why your second bolded assertion above is nonsense.

ETA: my 666 post, coincidence or...

 

[Miss_Kitt]

I think burning or damaging books is distasteful. The whole point of atheism is that there's nothing special or holy, no god to be offended...so what's the point? It's not a burnt offering to an opposing god, it's not an upraised finger to a watching deity; it's just being mildly offensive to people you disagree with, and destroying a book of myths that has had a great impact on the history of "Western" civilization.

I am a proud atheist, but when my kid was 11 I gave her the book of kid's version Bible stories, old and new testament, that I had had when I was a child. I told her, "These are the Christian myths, and some of the Jewish myths--put it with your Greek and Roman mythology book." We talk about how some artworks reflect those stories.

The problem is not the Bible per se, it's treating it as a prescriptive or truthful text instead of a collection of myths. Are we going to tear pages out of the Brothers Grimm fairy tales next?!

Please, let's try to establish a reputation for atheists being thoughtful and reasonable, instead of engaging in the kind of theatrical nonsense that the religious zealots love.

Just my thoughts, MK

 

[JFrankA]

If you are a Christian or Believer and atheism annoys you, PLEASE spread this simple statement to defend any RELIGION and bring down Atheism. "Atheism has a lack of belief in God(s), you use religion to form a lack of belief, do you believe in the proof of your lack of belief, since you think religion, the bible, isn't proof?" - Novest, i will say my real name on here soon.

I'm sorry. That's utter gibberish.

I don't use religion to form a lack of belief. I just don't believe and it's not a "lack of belief", it's a lack of evidence.