Atheists still like the Dalai Lama?

[T'ai Chi]

Lookie here at what the Dalai Lama said recently:

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

 

[Brown]

Here's a story from CNN and AP:

The Dalai Lama dedicated an interfaith temple Sunday and urged his audience of several thousand people to be religious and choose a faith.
...
"Rivers, ponds, lakes and streams all have different names, but they all contain water," [Muhammad] Ali said [in written comments read aloud by his daughter]. "So, too, different religions all contain truth."

The notion that any religion is better than no religion is not new to the Dalai Lama. He has been challenged about his position before. In particular, he has been asked whether he thought that there were any bad religions. You can probably guess what he said.

 

[Yahweh]

Any religion is better than no religion... well I heard the kids today are into Vampirism, I'll give it a try (I wouldnt want to upset the Dalai Lama with my lack of religion)...

 

[c4ts]

Find religion before Cthulhu finds YOU!

 

[LeFevre]

Lookie here at what the Dalai Lama said recently:

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

I didn't know that liking the Dalai Lama was part of being an Atheist.

 

[Ratman_tf]

Lookie here at what the Dalai Lama said recently:

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

I neither liked nor disliked the Dalai Lama. Some wisdom in Buddhism appeals to me. Some of the more mystical aspects do not.

Don't have much interest in religion? I have an interest in religion, but I don't think there's a god(s). Does he mean believe in a religion?

 

[Checkmite]

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

I've never found Buddhism itself to be particularly compelling...but I don't see how such an opinion suddenly renders the Dalai Lama a "bad guy" or irrelevant. It's his opinion. A discussion with someone who was a mirror image of my own body of thought would be a boring one.

 

[Upchurch]

Lookie here at what the Dalai Lama said recently:

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

So, the Dalai Lama makes mistakes and is wrong from time to time. He's only human, just like the rest of us, subjected to his own misconceptions and predjudices.

I have no more or less respect for the man than I did before you told me this.

edited to add:
Actually, he's only wrong if he means that people who don't have much interest in religion only see negatives. There isn't enough context to know exactly what he was refering to.

I, personally, don't have that much interest in religion and I do see negatives. However, I also see positives and usually I see positives more than I see negatives in my life.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I certainly like the Dalai Lama. I like him for his humor, his gentle manners, his intelectual and personal courage. That does not mean I need to agree with what he says.

Hans

 

[Gulliamo]

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

I have interest in religion. I am interested in eliminating it. So I guess I'm ok.

Maybe Mr. Lama thinks photographers should not have interest in religion.

 

[Pahansiri]

Greetings T'ai Chi

I hope you are well and happy.

You write :

Atheists still like the Dalai Lama?

Well many Atheist like the the Dalai Lama they are called Buddhist. We as Buddhist are atheist.


When asked the following : The Buddha was silent on the question of God. What about you?


the Dalai Lama responded.

Why did the Buddha not say anything about God? Because he talked about the law of causality. Once you accept the law of cause and effect, the implication is that there is no 'creator'. If the Buddha accepted the concept of a creator, he would not have been silent; everything would have been God! the Dalai Lama

The article is titled Dalai Lama urges tolerance

You point out {quote] "If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.[/quote]

May I ask how you see this as an attack on people who do not follow any “religion”?

Do you not believe that in such a setting it would be logical to say such a thing? As you see in the article he does not demand anyone becomes Buddhist not he/we/Buddhism is the “only way/truth” he clearly always says people should not just drop their beliefs and become Buddhist that is not what Buddhism is or teaches.

May I offer some quotes that may help you to better know what HH the Dalai Lama thinks as to people who follow a religion or non religion.

"So long as we practice these in our daily lives, then no matter if we are learned or unlearned, whether we believe in Buddha or God, or follow some other religion or none at all, as long as we have compassion for others and conduct ourselves with restraint out of a sense of responsibility, there is no doubt we will be happy." the Dalai Lama

I believe that whether a person follows any religion or not is unimportant, he must have a good heart, a warm heart. This is essential for a happy life, which is much more important than Buddhahood. This is part of what I call 'secular ethics'. the Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama: I always say that people should not rush to change religions. There is real value in finding the spiritual resources you need in your home religion. Even secular humanism has great spiritual resources; it is almost like a religion to me. All religions try to benefit people, with the same basic message of the need for love and compassion, for justice and honesty, for contentment. So merely changing formal religious affiliations will often not help much. On the other hand, in pluralistic, democratic societies, there is the freedom to adopt the religion of your choice. This is good. This lets curious people like you run around on the loose! the Dalai Lama

HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA: As far as religious faith, I'm not sort of asking anybody should be believer.

Non-believer, no interest at all in religion, absolutely all right.

You can be -- still, you can be a compassionate person, you can be a sensible person, a happy person.

The essence of any religion is good heart. Sometimes I call love and compassion a universal religion. the Dalai Lama

Buddhism isn't even so much a religion.

Some people would say it's an atheist religion.

We don't believe in a God.

We don't have a theology of God.

It's more a science of the mind. the Dalai Lama

Hello Brown.

You write

The notion that any religion is better than no religion is not new to the Dalai Lama. He has been challenged about his position before. In particular, he has been asked whether he thought that there were any bad religions. You can probably guess what he said

May I ask with respect for the quotes by the Dalai Lama to support this? As you can see from the above quotes the first part of your statement

The notion that any religion is better than no religion is not new to the Dalai Lama.

Has been addressed.

He has been challenged about his position before. In particular, he has been asked whether he thought that there were any bad religions. You can probably guess what he said

This I would also like to see in context so as to know what he fully said. As we again see from the above quotes he considers “compassion a universal religion” and says no one need follow a “religion” and “Even secular humanism has great spiritual resources”.

Greetings Yahweh

You write:

Any religion is better than no religion... well I heard the kids today are into Vampirism, I'll give it a try (I wouldnt want to upset the Dalai Lama with my lack of religion)...

May I also ask you with respect can you post for me where the the Dalai Lama said

Any religion is better than no religion...[/quote}?

I believe my quotes disprove that.

As to him maybe not saying Vampirism is good or bad or even something he considers a “religion” perhaps you twist this a bit, he does not attack the beliefs of anyone, Yours, Christians etc.

Being he considers “religion” to be loving kindness, respect and compassion it seems he may not see anything that condones harming others as a “religion” as least as to his belief and that could be all he could speak to, that being as to he believes right?

Just what I believe.

May you all be well and happy.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Lookie here at what the Dalai Lama said recently:

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

Still like the Dalai Lama and Buddhism, I am curious to know.

What do you mean ' still ' ?


Upon what do you base your assumption that there has been support among atheists for the Dalai Lama and Buddhism?

 

[homunculus]

The notion that any religion is better than no religion is not new to the Dalai Lama

I can understand why so many religionists are suspicious of atheists (in particular).

There is no way to bolster atheistic, or any other negative positions by argument. They all suffer from the same flaw, which is the flat refusal to clarify exactly what it is they are denying. They cannot do this, of course, because atheists (along with the believers!) do not really understand themselves, and so they are not really sure what their position is. There is no logical possibility of presenting non-evidence for non-entities.

This reduces such denial to the somewhat perverse attitude that something they do not understand, cannot exist...which makes no sense to me...does it to you..?

Still, if the Dalia Lama thinks that being non-religious is inferior by default to all forms of religiosity, he's an ass.

I'm thinking 9/11 here...

Paul.

 

[Pahansiri]

The notion that any religion is better than no religion is not new to the Dalai Lama

I can understand why so many religionists are suspicious of atheists (in particular).

There is no way to bolster atheistic, or any other negative positions by argument. They all suffer from the same flaw, which is the flat refusal to clarify exactly what it is they are denying. They cannot do this, of course, because atheists (along with the believers!) do not really understand themselves, and so they are not really sure what their position is. There is no logical possibility of presenting non-evidence for non-entities.

This reduces such denial to the somewhat perverse attitude that something they do not understand, cannot exist...which makes no sense to me...does it to you..?

Still, if the Dalia Lama thinks that being non-religious is inferior by default to all forms of religiosity, he's an ass.

I'm thinking 9/11 here...

Paul.

Greetings homunculus

If you read my post you will find this is not the case

 

[T'ai Chi]

Hi Pahansiri,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

The way I (mis?)understand things, is that not all Buddhists consider themselves nonreligious.

If that is not the case, my apologies.

(too many "not"s in the above )

You point out "If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

May I ask how you see this as an attack on people who do not follow any “religion”?

I interpreted that to mean that if you aren't religious, the DL thinks that bad things will happen to you. I certainly don't agree with that, as many atheists, agnostics, or anybody that doesn't have an interest in religion, can see many positive things.

That was my understanding of it after reading it over briefly. I'll try and read more about the DL and his views on this.

TC

 

[TruthSeeker]

He could have said "Believe exactly what I tell you to believe without question as I am the direct representative of God on earth. And if you don't, you will burn in the fires of hell for all eternity" But that would make him Catholic.

I think he still ranks as one of the most tolerant religious world leaders.

 

[peptoabysmal]

I've always been more of a Taoist than a Buddhist.

 

[Pahansiri]

Hi Pahansiri,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

The way I (mis?)understand things, is that not all Buddhists consider themselves nonreligious.

If that is not the case, my apologies.

(too many "not"s in the above )



I interpreted that to mean that if you aren't religious, the DL thinks that bad things will happen to you. I certainly don't agree with that, as many atheists, agnostics, or anybody that doesn't have an interest in religion, can see many positive things.

That was my understanding of it after reading it over briefly. I'll try and read more about the DL and his views on this.

TC [/B]

Greetings T'ai Chi.

The way I (mis?)understand things, is that not all Buddhists consider themselves nonreligious.

There are several things to look at here as to this.

1- Of course I can not speak for all Buddhist or all anything. There are some Buddhist who believe in a God i.e. there are Christians who are Buddhist. There are no rules in Buddhism, no sins no “you HAVE” to believe just this or that.

Buddha said several things about the God idea saying first and foremast it is irrelevant to why or how one must live and seek to do what is good and right what does not bring harm to self or others. He also thought as to how one could best understand seeking not to harm something that they may hold dear.

So when asked a question like “ how can I best serve my God” as he would be asked by Brahman he would say “ to best serve God love all he created”.. He never said “ you fool there is no creator” such is a statement of ego.

2- The definition of religious or religion can be sweeping.


Buddhism is very often debated as to if it is or is not “religious” or “religion”. If we see religion as Faith, belief then all beliefs are, what every person who has a kind “heart/actions” is religious.

All people have a faith in something a belief in something. Material atheist have to have a faith in the end that what they believe is true as in reality either “side’ can not be proven.

We, all must look free from fears and other emotions at all realities and facts and make logical decisions as to what we believe is truth. We end up with a faith that it is.

As Buddhist a base or all the Buddha’s teachings or how to look is the Kalama Sutra

Kalama Sutta

Do not believe in anything (simply)
because you have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they
have been handed down for many generations.

Do not believe in anything because it is
spoken and rumoured by many.

Do not believe in anything (simply) because
it is found written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority
of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis
when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all
then accept it and live up to it.

Buddha
(Anguttara Nikaya Vol. 1, 188-193 P.T.S. Ed.)

This being said when many things look logical there are others that may not be able to known that there can be a faith are true, not a blind faith but a “well everything else seems truth this may be also so I believe it unless it is proven wrong”.

There is a great quote;

philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion ( some) are answers that may never be questioned”

As Buddhist we must question everything. We see no one as a savior but ourselves. Buddhism is a guide a handbook a map. But no one walks the walk and way but ourselves.

"By oneself, indeed, is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself, indeed, is one purified. Purity and impurity depend on oneself. No one purifies another." (Buddha/Dhammapada 165)


For HH the Dalai Lama it is clear from his quotes he considers

"So long as we practice these in our daily lives, then no matter if we are learned or unlearned, whether we believe in Buddha or God, or follow some other religion or none at all, as long as we have compassion for others and conduct ourselves with restraint out of a sense of responsibility, there is no doubt we will be happy." the Dalai Lama

I believe that whether a person follows any religion or not is unimportant, he must have a good heart, a warm heart. This is essential for a happy life, which is much more important than Buddhahood. This is part of what I call 'secular ethics'. the Dalai Lama

For example.

As I pointed out your statement as “so what do Atheist think of Lama now” was a bit leading if you will.

1- we are atheist so I know for sure millions and millions of atheist “like him” the Buddhist and I am sure there are materialist ones also.
2- Also he did not attack nor does he anyone. Again if we read just the few quotes I posted we see that is clear.
3- He did not “demand” anyone believe anything and never has.

If that is not the case, my apologies.

Oh please my friend no need to apologize. No harm.

I interpreted that to mean that if you aren't religious, the DL thinks that bad things will happen to you.

bad things happen in all peoples lives all will know old age and death all suffer. That is the first noble truth But I do not see where he said ever [/quote] that if you aren't religious, the DL thinks that bad things will happen to you.[/quote]


It seem clear from his quotes that is not the case.

What he said was

"If there are people who don't have much interest in religion, they will see negatives," he said.

I do not know the full context of his speech so I do not know fully. But all people see negatives in something and someone who don't have much interest in religion will see negatives in it. Right?

I certainly don't agree with that, as many atheists, agnostics, or anybody that doesn't have an interest in religion, can see many positive things.

Where did he say they could not?


Be well my new friend.

 

[crocodile deathroll]

Not infallable

One thing that many western atheists like most about him is that he makes no outrageous claims about his infallibility like the Pope.

 

[Dancing David]

Dai Chi,

Nice start to a thread.

The buddha ofetn said that a reflecting mind is like a roof, an unreflecting mins is open to the storms of life.

So perhaps what the DL was meaning , if I may interpret without reading the whole sutta, is that a person without sirituality will see more negative.

This makes a lot of sense from the buddhist perspective. I always thought of buddhism as an atheistic philosphy, although the stories of the buddha ofetn make reference to the gods.

I am not but a light bulb in the storm, certainly no buddha.