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Atheists are a lawless lot.

Corpse Cruncher

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In the Mail on Sunday an article written by some idiot; which inferred atheists were a bunch of lawless hooligans solely responsible for killing off taught religion in the schools among other things.

Apparently the gist of this man's opinions of atheists and the followers are thugs, and the lowest form of life with a preference for crime.

Atheist therefore cannot have morals?
 
Are you talking about the UK Mail on Sunday? Because if so the guy is a fool of the first order, not only are atheists not lawless (despite being predominantly secular the UK is still a society of laws) but the teaching of religion, and collective Christian prayer is still mandated in all state schools.
 
Well, why aren't atheists all in jail, then?

Is it because atheists are smarter than religious people, not to get caught?
 
Ah yes, Peter Hitchens; I can't read him without visualising him frothing at the mouth - hard to believe that he's Christopher Hitchens' younger brother.

Here's his Mail on Sunday column - link

If there is no God, then there's no guilt. You get away with selfish, callous actions and nobody can take revenge on you.

... snip ...

One definition of morality is that it is what you do when you think someone may be watching.
That would be a definition you just made up then Peter?
 
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Oh great phantasmagorical doom! Sound the alarm! The Christians think we are lawless! They say we have no morals! Alarm alarm! Hide the corpse of Hemingway! Hide the corps of Celine! Hide the corps of Clemens! They're at the gates and they say we are evil! This sudden attack could only be brought on by the brightest minds in God's emissary! ALARM!
 
Oh, Peter Hitchens, you silly goose. I do intensely dislike the man, he seems to be a sort of British equivalent to Ann Coulter. Fortunately he hasn't developed the kind of following that she has and there are few voices left in government, or even in parliament, of his particular "Go back to the fifties!" type in Britain (unlike in the US, where they routinely get voted President).

His rant is deeply idiotic, and of course rests on the rather hefty assumption that anyone who acts unethically is an atheist, which he then backs up with, well, nothing, really. Not to mention that "Morality is what you do when people are watching" is a rather troubling religious meme that surfaces again and again and seems to suggest that humans are only capable of restraining themselves from utter decadence and acts of hate if they are worried about getting caught, and only capable of acts of kindness or mercy if they feel they are to be rewarded, or at least applauded, for it. People who make this argument then claim moral superiority, which is an odd thing to do when you've just suggested you are a serial killer who is only being stopped from your murderous ways by threat of eternal punishment, but there you are. I don't for a second believe that this is actually true of any of the people who claim this , but it is the natural consequence of the argument that ethics and religion are completely inseperable.

And is he really Christopher Hitchens brother? I bet there are some uncomfortable moments at family reunions between those two. Or perhaps some blazing rows.
 
Christopher and Peter have had their rows as you can imagine - they didn't speak to each other for a while. I think they now agree to differ.

There are no comments after that piece as yet - which I find surprising. Perhaps the ones submitted so far were too strong for the Wail on Sunday's moderators.
Anyway I've tried with a comment making more or less the same point as PW ...
 
If morality is to willfully act as if you were being watched when you were not, then Christians must have no morality, as they are always watched.

I, also, am concerned by the fact that many Christians can't think of a single reason not to murder their neighbor, other than divine retribution.
 
If morality is to willfully act as if you were being watched when you were not, then Christians must have no morality, as they are always watched.

I, also, am concerned by the fact that many Christians can't think of a single reason not to murder their neighbor, other than divine retribution.

I think it’s the desire to murder his brother which this particular Christian has a problem with ;)
 
And, as usual, the standard sarcastic comment, "Well, of course nobody ever did anything bad in the name of Christianity" is lost on him.

And we won't even get into people doing things bad even though they were Christians. Plain old murders, theft, rape, spitting in the holy water bowl.
 
And, as usual, the standard sarcastic comment, "Well, of course nobody ever did anything bad in the name of Christianity" is lost on him.

And we won't even get into people doing things bad even though they were Christians. Plain old murders, theft, rape, spitting in the holy water bowl.

He’s also missing the point that eth UK is a Christian nation, not in the sense that Fundies in the USA argue that the USA is a Christian nation, in the actual sense that Christianity is eth state religion, Christians have special legal privilege, and state school children are forced to learn “Christian values” and to pray to the Christian God (unless their parents specifically opt them out).

We have become a more secular society in recent years- without removing much of this Christian privilege, , but this has correlated with a decrease in crime. Indeed many of the areas with eth highest crime rates are also areas with the largest actively Christian populations. (I’m not suggesting a causal relationship in the last point, just a correlation)
 
One definition of morality is that it is what you do when you think someone may be watching.

That would be a definition you just made up then Peter?

Even worse. I'd posit that to be the OPPOSITE of what true morality is about.

Morality is what you do when you think NO ONE is watching.
 
CC, the letter writer's attitude is global. I deal with it on a regular basis and have put links to my local paper's Letters to the Editor several times.

I still remind people around here that atheists are good for nothing. Some get it, some don't.
 
An article in the "Mail on Sunday" about morality you say?

Now there's a novelty.

I wonder who told them about it.
 
Godbye and Godriddens...Mr Blair

Are you talking about the UK Mail on Sunday? Because if so the guy is a fool of the first order, not only are atheists not lawless (despite being predominantly secular the UK is still a society of laws) but the teaching of religion, and collective Christian prayer is still mandated in all state schools.


Mandated in schools????????:mad:


What about the way in which T.Blair + other political cronies are trying to 'infiltrate' the education system with creationist 'academies'.:mad:

I myself was approached by one! I, at first, was honoured...HA! It turns out they are getting £20 Million donations, but state schools only £2 Mill.:mad:

And you wonder why I HATE religion, faithers and IT.......:mad:

Griff...time for a cool shower.;)

BUT luckily, a council in London have kicked one into touch!:)
 

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