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Atheists and Christmas

I'm an atheist, and I love Christmas. All the tree-and-Santa stuff, of course, as well as Advent calendars and angels and mangers. The more over-the-top, the better. I find the Christmas myth very picturesque, and well-adapted to interesting decoration.

I also try to be inclusive: every year I insert more figures into the little Nativity scene. Last year I had all the usual suspects, plus some Hindu god finger puppers (Varuna, Kali, Shiva, and Brahma); action figures of Pope Innocent III, Edgar Allan Poe, Shakespeare, and a librarian; a Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtle; and, of course, that eternal holiday triad of Santa Claus, Frosty the Snowman, and Boba Fett. The manger may be crowded, but it's a much more interesting party than just two people, a baby, and some cows and sheep. This year I shall add an elephant playing a cello, Kermit the Frog, and a Buddha. And if I can find them in the attic, some of the better plastic dinosaurs. Hey, it was a manger full of animals; I don't recall they ever said what kind of animals they were.

I'm trying to find the scariest possible angel for the tree top, preferably one with wide, staring eyes. I shall probably have to make one myself, because I'd like one with black wings and both hands bloody to the elbows like a Maenad. Or maybe a jolly little Grim Reaper would be cute instead.

Mythology is fun, if you don't take it seriously.


eta: I forgot the Christmas cookies. We always make some in the shape of crescent moons and Hands of Fatima, because Christmas is about eating baked goods, and celebrating Muhammed. Right?
 
Even back in (1964? 1966?), Charlie Brown was lamenting the commercialization of Christmas. Of course we all learned the "true meaning" with Linus' little speech.

A show like that could never be made today -- each character would have to have a different religion designated for them, probably giving equal time to all.

Still, it's the sweetest show, and one I never miss every year.
 
In Norwegian Christmas is "Jul" i.e. Yule so no one can whine about Christmas. No christ or mass in Yule, so there.

Tree and angels? They're pretty, nothing more.

Big chunk of pork. Not particularly christian.
Dried cod treated with lye. Not particularly christian.
Gifts. Not particularly christian.

Santa Claus. Again language comes to our rescue. The Norwegian "Julenisse" is one of the old fey folk. Bigger than the barn living "fjøsnisse" yes, and less prone to wreck your farm if you don't feed him and help you if you do. But in the end he's a non-christian gift bringer dressed up in a coca-cola suit.

Religious services? Haven't been to one apart from some at school.

One purple candle for each sunday in Advent? Sure, but the countdown to christmas dinner should have multiple forms.

Light star in the window through december. Looks pretty.
 
Just last night my wife and I threw our new baby godson's first tree-trimming party. I was hoping to share some pics today, but my wife took the camera with her. :(

The kid's parents (much like his godparents) consist of an atheist and deeply spiritual but non-religious (at least in an organized sense) person. We decorated the tree, baked cookies and watched a Kevin Smith video. It was pretty much all about family, tradition, and eating fattening foods and nothing to do with Christianity. (Although some of the peganistic origins were discussed.)


Christmas, it isn't just for Christians anymore (again).
 
alfaniner said:
Even back in (1964? 1966?), Charlie Brown was lamenting the commercialization of Christmas. Of course we all learned the "true meaning" with Linus' little speech.

A show like that could never be made today -- each character would have to have a different religion designated for them, probably giving equal time to all.

Still, it's the sweetest show, and one I never miss every year.
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I believe it was 1965. Anyway, I never miss it either, but I'm seriously considering buying the DVD, because the ever more present ads on TV have considerably reduced the length of the show each year.
 
What's not to like about Christmas? The lights, the trim, the food, the presents (given and received), the good will (I don't refuse good will no matter what the intention or duration).

My family has always been at war with each other. The sides change and the reasons change but almost always there are petty little breakpeaces going on. Time out is called during funerals and at Christmas. While funerals are a somber outing for the most part, Christmas allows our disfunctional family to function on neutral, happier grounds for a few days. Over the years feuds that would have ended relationships for good have been minimized and there has always been a door of opportunity to make amends.

I don't hold much hope that we will become the Cleavers but it is always a possibility if peace is given a chance.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I also try to be inclusive: every year I insert more figures into the little Nativity scene. Last year I had all the usual suspects, plus some Hindu god finger puppers (Varuna, Kali, Shiva, and Brahma); action figures of Pope Innocent III, Edgar Allan Poe, Shakespeare, and a librarian; a Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtle; and, of course, that eternal holiday triad of Santa Claus, Frosty the Snowman, and Boba Fett. The manger may be crowded, but it's a much more interesting party than just two people, a baby, and some cows and sheep. This year I shall add an elephant playing a cello, Kermit the Frog, and a Buddha. And if I can find them in the attic, some of the better plastic dinosaurs. Hey, it was a manger full of animals; I don't recall they ever said what kind of animals they were.

I'm trying to find the scariest possible angel for the tree top, preferably one with wide, staring eyes. I shall probably have to make one myself, because I'd like one with black wings and both hands bloody to the elbows like a Maenad. Or maybe a jolly little Grim Reaper would be cute instead.
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:dl:
 
How about this? "Mithra is the REAL reason for the season."

Joshua Korosi said:
But that's the way it used to be. In the 90's, people with squeezed budgets started complaining that Christmas was just a commercial gimmick, designed to suck more dollars out of them - they were right, then. They remembered the way Christmas used to be, but when they tried to find it again they noticed how expensive it had suddenly become in the here and now. So Christmas has steadily gone downhill as far as quality goes. Now, people string lights over the porch and call it quits...the only people who decorate "elaborately" now are the ones who turn their backyards into a miniature Las Vegas and give tours - for a buck. Those people make the papers.
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As someone that has a good 20 years on you, let me say:

I suggest that it is not Christmas that has changed, but you. You've grown up, and gotten more skeptical. And unfortunately, more cynical.

I know plenty of people who celebrate in an over-the-top way with the decorations and lights and parties and gifts, and they usually do it out of love, not out of making a buck. Some are religious, some aren't.

Yes, retailers are just out to make a buck on the holidays, but they're out to do that all year long. If they can pull in a little more over the holidays, why shouldn't they? Modern American Christmas has always been a cash cow, even back in the magical days when Santa walked on your roof -- and at least 80 before that.

And Fundies haven't co-opted Christmas anymore than they're trying to co-opt the rest of our lives. Don't blame that on Christmas, blame that on Fundies.

The only thing wrong with the way Christmas has become since you were a child is that you know longer view it through the eyes of a child. And it has a few more batteries and BLEEP BLEEP sounds than it had when I was a kid. But really, the holiday has not changed one whit in the past 100 years. Not commercially, not cynically, and not theistically.

But if you long for the days when Christmas was glorious and joyful, all you have to do is change your perspective on it. You can view it through child-like eyes again if you really want to. Put away your cynicism. Hang on to your skepticism if you'd like. But be a child in the holiday again. You might be amazed at how much fun you can still have.

BTW, if you never want to see a grown man cry, then don't hang out with me when I watch Scrooge or IaWL or Little Drummer Boy. I always bawl like a baby. Maybe I shouldn't spike the eggnog so much, eh?
 
As a kid, going to church on Christmas Eve was always viewed as the "taking the bad with the good." Before church, we'd feast, which was good. And after church, we'd open presents, which was great. But between the good things was church, and attendance was mandatory.

There was one good thing about Christmas Eve services, and that was that they let you play with fire. Everybody, even little kids, got to hold a lit candle, and the parents couldn't object!

In my later years, I started to listen to the "Christmas Messages" offered from the pulpit, and I detected a pattern: most of the messages were not very helpful. They had little practical use, and they tended to be sappy, trite messages. I used to think it was funny that my uncle slept through the sermons. I understood later how smart he was.

As a teenager, I found ways to amuse myself, such as singing hymns the way Elmer Fudd would sing them. I was able to make one of my siblings break up laughing by singing "The shephewds feawed and twembled, when wo! above the eawth...."

When I came of majority, I would go to church because my entire family was going, or to see one of my relatives in some sort of play or musical production during the service. Lately, however, I have taken the position that I do not ever want to go to any more Christmas Eve services. I have seen enough of them in my lifetime and I have found them to be of no practical value.

My family still gets together at Christmas, and we still have a good time. We still feast and open presents and look at lighting displays and the like.
 
Ladyhawk said:

I figure , if say, some Native American Indian tribe asked me to be a guest of honor at one of their Sun Dances in Arizona, I wouldn't object on the basis of my atheism. I'd be honored to be invited and would partake in the ritual as a matter of broadening my cultural experience.
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I agree with this, however, some people just want to force xmas on you, which is an entirely different thing. I don't feel anything special about the holiday, myself, but I'll inevitably hear "oh, your not celebrating...how sad" type comments. There's a certain social pressure to like xmas, at least in my circle. That I don't like at all. It's as iff the Indian didn't just invite me to the sun dance, which would be nice, but got upset when I say I'm not interested in studying and performing the dances myself, which wouldn't be so nice.

But it's not much of an anti-xmas or anti-religion thing with me - I'm also not going to celebrate Thanksgiving. I don't have family around here, and I have better things to do (and I mean that in a positive, not perjorative sense) then prepare a big heavy meal that I won't enjoy much anyway (I don't like roasted turkey). People will also tell me how "sad" that is. Oh well - I'll be having fun doing what I want to do with a free day off from work.
 
Upchurch said:
We decorated the tree, baked cookies and watched a Kevin Smith video.
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Yeah, I love to gather the family around our fireplace and watch Vulgar while we decorate the Christmas tree.
 
Brown said:
As a kid, going to church on Christmas Eve was always viewed as the "taking the bad with the good." Before church, we'd feast, which was good. And after church, we'd open presents, which was great. But between the good things was church, and attendance was mandatory.

There was one good thing about Christmas Eve services, and that was that they let you play with fire. Everybody, even little kids, got to hold a lit candle, and the parents couldn't object!
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Ahhhh, catholics are fun.

We got our candles confiscated after one of kids started a fire in the church basement. Not with the candles, mind you, but with some sticks and matches.

After that, I think the fire insurance premiums went through the roof and to keep them down they had to get rid a lot of the careless fire.
 
This question seems to come up on these boards every year about this time. Here is my stock answer: Christmas has exactly whatever meaning you decide to imbue it with, no more, no less. The same is true for every other holiday.

Chani and I are both atheists. We celebrate and quite enjoy Christmas. We choose to celebrate and emphasize the family aspect of the holiday. It is an excuse to spend time with our family, enjoy the gifts that we buy for each other and have a good meal together. Nothing about those things requires any belief in God.

Sure we could do any of those things any day of the year, but we are also part of our society and our society has set aside December 25 for those things and its as good a day as any to us. So that's when we do it.
 
pgwenthold said:
Ahhhh, catholics are fun.
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Actually, we were Lutherans, sort of a "Catholic Lite," without all of the saints and the popes, but with a lot of the same liturgy.
 
Religious holidays don't bother me overmuch; I have my own "obsessions" with SF, so why shouldn't I let friends and co workers get excited about their fictional hero? In fact, for Christmas, i am the one who does the decorating at the station each year, as well as the cooking. On a good year I have a great time, and on my "Bah Humbug" years the enjoyment the others take from the holidays makes the incessent music and tv specials tolerable. When all else fails, I get some amusement from their ignorance on the real origins of their Holidays.
 
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