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Atheists and Christmas

Temporal Renegade

Last of the Time Lords
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
1,890
Since a good deal of people here are, indeed, atheist (or, at the very least, have questions concerning the existance of God) I was just wondering:

How do you handle secular holidays? Christmas, Easter, etc. Do you just tell everyone not to bother adding you to their Christmas card list, or do you just grin & bear it? How do your friends & family feel, if they don't really share your views about religion & God?

I myself don't bring it up. I've told the family years ago, I don't mind visiting everyone, but I don't really go for the trappings (carolling, saying Grace--if you don't do it the rest of the year, why bother with it then?).

Plus, we had a 'discussion' one year; I wanted to know why it's OK to 'show Grace and Goodness to your fellows' at the Holidays, but ignore them the rest of the time? I know you can't afford it or find the time all year 'round, but why not do something nice for someone who would appreciate it, maybe once every few months or so, when you can do it? (Yes, I was playing Devil's Advocate. And, at X-Mas, too! )

...I'm not allowed to talk about such things anymore...:D
 
No better way to answer that question than to note that the xians co-opted the Solstice from pagans, and then to go right ahead and steal the Holiday Season back from them

Agnostica proclaimed:
"An agnostic?" I asked him, "So what's up with that?"
"Belief in ourselves!" he said, "Pure logic and fact!
"But what about us who have no religion?
"Who celebrate science? Don't we get a smidgen?"
"Yes! We'll celebrate science, not some `god' in the sky!
"And declare that Jesus was just a nice guy."
 
My immediate family do the Giftmas thing: Santa, presents, tree, etc. We don't go to church. My extended family tolerate me, they know and accept my position, and I in turn tolerate their theist beliefs. We each respect the other, and this goes for my non-xtian, non atheist relations as well. I am comfortable enough in my lack of faith to accept the prayers and blessings of strangers in the spirit in which it is offered.

For me to get all uptight about the Xtian symbology rampant at this time of year would be to make myself as foolish as the fundie freaks that protest H'ween.
 
I abandoned Xmas as a religious holiday years ago when I became an atheist, but continued to celebrate it as a seasonal holiday.
However, this year I've told my family I'm intentionally toning down the whole Xmas thing just because I think it can become such a consuming event. Think about how many people stress themselves out at Xmas because they have so many things planned, and place so much expectations on the holiday.
I'm refusing to do that this year. I'm not even going to think about Xmas until the 24th.

As for the whole religious question, I think it is entirely appropriate to assimilate Xmas for your own purposes. It should be what you want it to be, whether your christian, atheist or other.
Actually, Xmas has become quite secular in general, so it's quite easy for a non-religiou person to enjoy it.
 
I love Christmas. Or, at least, I used to. When somebody mentions Christmas, I think about the holiday the way I remember it when I was young - back in the 80's and early 90's.

Christmas was great, and it wasn't all about the presents either (although that was definitely a big part). It was the entire atmosphere. The music has always stuck with me - not some boy band singing the hundredth cut of "Winter Wonderland", but good classic stuff, with Burl Ives or Bing Crosby singing out an old tune, or a nice choral version of Carol of the Bells. They came on the radio, of course, but we had some - a few old vinyl 33s. Even the religious songs were just fine - why is it that back then, we could sing "O Holy Night" without pondering whether we were going to spend eternity in heaven or hell? Then there were the decorations - people decorated their houses with all manner of lights, trees, plastic reindeer, and taped those dumb cardboard cutouts to the window. We used to go around a week before Christmas and look at how beautiful some of those houses were, all lit up and sparkling.

The movies were cool too, back then. Not just the kids movies (because hey, kids movies were kids movies), but the more grown-up ones, like Miracle on 34th street, or It's a Wonderful Life before they became cliche's. Remember the messages of those old movies, that spoke of the "spirit of Christmas"? It was about people, not gods. It was about here and now, not some past or future event. Giving and getting gifts, for and from people you knew and loved or cared about. Writing and sending out cards for the ones who couldn't be there, not because you thought you had to, but because it was just something you did.

That whole Santa Claus thing is great, too - it's a wonderful mythos. And the suggestion that it's a horrible thing to do to kids is nonsense; Christmas was never "less fun" for me after I learned the truth, I wasn't "traumatized". In fact, the year after I "learned the devastating truth", I joined a group of kids from school who went caroling that Christmas, and it was great. Sometimes I swear I grew up in the Golden Age of Christmas.

Christmas was also the first time I was made aware of the differences in world cultures. One year, way back in the single digits, one of the houses I saw was decorated with all blue lights (it reminded me of taxiway lights at an airport). I thought it looked exceedingly beautiful and the next day I asked the kid who lived there about it. Hannukah was explained to me then. I learned of these people who celebrated at the same time, who weren't Christian (I was technically a Christian, but our family didn't do church or anything like that). They didn't believe in the whole Jesus thing - but I didn't care. Hell, nobody cared. During Christmas, everything was all right.

But that's the way it used to be. In the 90's, people with squeezed budgets started complaining that Christmas was just a commercial gimmick, designed to suck more dollars out of them - they were right, then. They remembered the way Christmas used to be, but when they tried to find it again they noticed how expensive it had suddenly become in the here and now. So Christmas has steadily gone downhill as far as quality goes. Now, people string lights over the porch and call it quits...the only people who decorate "elaborately" now are the ones who turn their backyards into a miniature Las Vegas and give tours - for a buck. Those people make the papers.

In the late 90's and in the 21st century, the ultra-fundies have come around and noticed that Christmas really and truly has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. They've decided to change that at all cost. Nativity scenes have popped up in peoples' front yards and are becoming more populous every year. Some families spend less time at home (or a relative's home) in fellowship, and more time having "fellowship" at a church where they sit in complete silence and are read to like a class of first graders. People are taking over the radio and actually telling us that this whole "myth" of the Christmas spirit (being about people and loving people), is the devil's work. Christmas is becoming a way to proselytize to children, who are told that "It's Christ's birthday, Christmas trees are devil worship, and by the way if you don't believe in Jesus you're going to burn in hell forever". Christmas is one of those things that's being ruined by "revival".

But even so, my non-Christian status does not stop me from sending cards to those I can't be with, or buying an occasional present for aunts, uncles, and cousins. Our family still gathers - those of us that can, anyway - and we celebrate Christmas the real way. The most religious our evening ever gets is the before-dinner prayer, and I have no trouble lowering my head and letting it happen - I lose nothing. We're there, all together. And if that ever stops happening, then the only place left to go - the only thing that hasn't changed all that much - is that music. I still have that old, dusty vinyl. I'll probably keep it until the day I die.
 
A few days off. Sit around the house and watch DVD's and drink eggnog and eat good food. What's not to like? :D

I'm not an uptight rabid atheist. It's kinda like when I went to a buddy's wedding. I respected their rites just as I'd expect others to respect my beliefs.
 
Personally, I like Christmas and I don't like it.

I like the holidays, I like the family meetings and the banquets, I like getting presents and the Three Wise Men fantasy, I like our cute Portuguese nativity set.

I don't like the hypocrisy of being nice to others in Christmas and being a s*@k! the rest of the year, I don't like the shopping mall fever, I don't like the cheap Santa movies on TV, I don't like the Pope, I don't like the dark and rainy weather.

Fortunately, all my close family shares my atheism (apparently, at least), so at home we get the tradition without the religion :D
 
What? Christmas is a religious holiday? When the hell did that happen? :D ;)

Seriously though, you'd have to be a real pompous idiot jerk to refuse days off and presents just because you don't believe in baby Jesus. Just drink your eggnog and mumble the words to "Oh Holy night" with the rest of us.
 
Note that this question applies to any non-Christian, not just atheists and agnostics.

In high school, when I was one of three Jews in a school of 2000 christians, 25 Hindus and maybe a token Muslim, I was so uptight about all of it that "Merry Christmas" used to stick in my throat. (In fact, when I was really little, I once told a mall santa that I was Jewish. He said not to worry because so was he.)

Nowadays, it's a holiday. There's food, which is usually good. I get cards from friends I don't hear from very often and have a reason to write to people I'm not often in touch with. Sometimes I get gifts. I have an excuse to play with chocolate in the kitchen. There are lots of sparkly lights and shiny objects to draw my attention.

I have no problem with people wishing me a merry christmas, nor wishing it to others. At the very worst, it's a seasonal greeting as innocuous as "Happy New Year." At best, it is a sincere wish for another person's happiness. I can't see a point in getting mad when someone wishes you well.
 
My parents weren't religious but they celebrated Christmas anyway, so I always figured Christmas was pretty secular but had that whole "Midnight Mass" thing on the side which my cousins would go to.

There are, of course, certain atheists who will chose to rename Christmas "Winter Solstice," but these people are stupid. The holiday isn't religious. Religion is involved, but that's true of most traditions which are as old as Christmas.

That said, there are certain Christmas specials which will stir up my inner militant atheist. Notably, anything which makes the analogy between Jesus and Santa way too obvious.
 
I like Christmas too, in a big old secular, present-giving-and-getting, time-off-from-work, kids-get-a-break-from-school, relatives-come-and-visit, still-love-carols sort of way.

Toss in a bit of solstice, Hanukkah, Kwanza, and the New Year and it's quite a nice time of year.

~~ Paul
 
Just know that you are truly superior when it doesn't bother you. If others act cooler than you, then they've already won.
 
I usually make a big fuss about religion intruding into my life, and so on, but really I think to do that with Christmas would be going against the true spirit of Atheistsgetpresents Day.
 
Christmas? I just grin and bear it, go to church with the family (And hour of my life isn't going to kill me), do the present thing... all the while, though, I'm really looking forward to boxing day.

Yes, boxing day, the best day of the year. It's the calm after the Xmas storm. It's a day where you can just lay around in the lights, no rush to wrap last-minute presents, no worrying, no stress... Just peace.
 
Temporal Renegade said:
Since a good deal of people here are, indeed, atheist (or, at the very least, have questions concerning the existance of God) I was just wondering:

How do you handle secular holidays? Christmas, Easter, etc. Do you just tell everyone not to bother adding you to their Christmas card list, or do you just grin & bear it? How do your friends & family feel, if they don't really share your views about religion & God?

I myself don't bring it up. I've told the family years ago, I don't mind visiting everyone, but I don't really go for the trappings (carolling, saying Grace--if you don't do it the rest of the year, why bother with it then?).

Plus, we had a 'discussion' one year; I wanted to know why it's OK to 'show Grace and Goodness to your fellows' at the Holidays, but ignore them the rest of the time? I know you can't afford it or find the time all year 'round, but why not do something nice for someone who would appreciate it, maybe once every few months or so, when you can do it? (Yes, I was playing Devil's Advocate. And, at X-Mas, too! )

...I'm not allowed to talk about such things anymore...:D

I don't think Christmas or Easter or any other of those holidays are secular. For the most part those holidays are not really religious events. Christmas is a time to give presents and get together. Easter is a time to make Easter baskets for your kids.
 
What gets me is whenever you hear an Xtian whining about putting the X back in X-Mas (or something like that), when it was a pagan holiday to begin with. I am trying to come up with a quote for a sig line or t-shirt or just to respond to their whining with. So far, all I could come up with is:
I don’t care about the people who are taking Christ out of your Christmas. What I want to know is why you Christians put Christmas into a pagan solstice celebration in the first place.
It just doesn't sound right yet, but I'm working on it
 
I see nothing wrong with eating turkey right after midnight mass. Though I am against those "way before midnight" Christmas masses. That's like, heresy or something. OK, so I stopped believing before reaching the age of 17, but there's just something about enjoying holidays and/or traditions, being home again...
 
I nailed this whole Christmas thing last year. Sure, there's the whole religious aspect of it that's maddening enough. But, I've also gotten fed up with the gift giving crap as well.

So, last year, my husband and I went to Vegas. We politely told our family that we would not be buying anyone Christmas presents that year and suggested they take the money they would have spent buying us something and spend it on themselves...or, if they were so inclined, to give the money to one of a couple of our favorite charities. Not only weren't they offended, but I think they were somewhat jealous. We went to Vegas where Christmas barely exists! (Try it some time!)

As for years past, I've never taken any serious offense at attending church with friends or family. I look at it as a field trip; an opportunity to observe ancient rituals and the reactions of the cult followers. I feel like Indiana Jones. It can be pretty amusing if you take the right perspective.

I figure , if say, some Native American Indian tribe asked me to be a guest of honor at one of their Sun Dances in Arizona, I wouldn't object on the basis of my atheism. I'd be honored to be invited and would partake in the ritual as a matter of broadening my cultural experience.

Christmas, like Easter, is just another opportunity to see ignorance run amok...
 

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