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Atheist misconceptions of Christianity

You don't accept allopathy?
Nope... simply cos I am still largely ignorant about it... ignorant in the sense that I don't know what it is... not ignorant in the sense that I'll regard it as innocent until proven guilty. Allopathy is but one of a few items on that list that are "things that I have - so far - no reason to accept unreservedly"

Or Amway?
Scamway? No thanks

Many things on that list exist, the Ten Commandments for instance.
Yep... as does the Nicene Creed, the Israeli Declaration of Independence, Mao's Little Red Book and 101 ways to Cook Tofu... doesn't mean they describe - let alone prescribe - my approach to LTUAE :)
What's not to believe in about the Nazca lines?
I while back, Skeptigirl posted her thoughts from a trip to the area: Skeptigirl's Magical Mythery Tour of Peru; I read it and, like I said in the post above "if any evidence is forthcoming ... I am more than happy to re-evaluate my stance, on a case-by-case basis"
 
six7s said:
Nope... simply cos I am still largely ignorant about it... ignorant in the sense that I don't know what it is... not ignorant in the sense that I'll regard it as innocent until proven guilty. Allopathy is but one of a few items on that list that are "things that I have - so far - no reason to accept unreservedly"
From Wikipedia:

Allopathic medicine and allopathy (from Greek ἄλλος, állos, other, different + πάϑος, páthos, suffering) are terms coined by Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homeopathy. Originally intended as a characterization of standard medicine in the early 19th century, these terms were rejected by mainstream physicians and quickly acquired negative overtones. In the United States the term "allopathic" has been used in contexts not related to homeopathy,[1] but it has never been accepted by the medical establishment, and is not a label that such individuals apply to themselves.[2][3]

In the United States, allopathic medicine can sometimes refer to the medical training that leads to the degree Doctor of Medicine rather than the degree Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. See comparison of MD and DO in the United States.[4][5]

Generally, allopathic medicine refers to "the broad category of medical practice that is sometimes called Western medicine, biomedicine, scientific medicine, or modern medicine,"[6] with varying degrees of acceptance by medical professionals in different locales. See medicine.
 
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From Wikipedia:
Allopathic medicine and allopathy (from Greek ἄλλος, állos, other, different + πάϑος, páthos, suffering) are terms coined by Samuel Hahnemann
Ahhhhhh... teh penny drops...
I used to know a homoeopath
Hahnemann, huh?

from Greek ἄλλος, állos, other, different + πάϑος, páthos, suffering
= So-Called Alternative Malpractice

Thanks for the reminder

I can now revise my stance

Allopathy: an item on the list that I can reject unreservedly until compelling counter-evidence surfaces or hell freezes over

:)
 
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Allopathy: an item on the list that I can reject unreservedly until compelling counter-evidence surfaces or hell freezes over

:)

I thought "allopathy" was a generic, new-age term for conventional medicine. That's how it usually gets used. Maybe you mean you can unreservedly reject the word, not the practice.

Nick
 
If any evidence is forthcoming for any of the above, I am more than happy to re-evaluate my stance, on a case-by-case basis

Can you, honestly, say the same?

If not:
  • why are you here, on this forum?

If so:
  • which of the above do you 'believe in'/reject?
    • Is there a discernible and logical pattern to your choices?
      If not:
      • why are you here, on this forum?

[*]determinism

[*]hypnosis

[*]repressed memories

These don't look so terrible to me. I mean, it's not a well-constructed list, kind of CT level writing really. If I were a skeptic I wouldn't associate myself with something so feebly presented. Presumably, the writer disputes the existence of some entries, and the effectiveness of others.

Nick
 
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It's Christians that take the bible literally, and then we criticize them. We're not mischaracterising or misunderstanding the beliefs of Christians when they actually tell us that's exactly what they believe. You're a liar.

Even so, I don't know if you've noticed, but english Bibles are not written in any such way as to convey that the content is metaphor. It's written in quite literal, even if nonsensical, prose.

Your generalization is totally innacurate. Have you read the Bible? If you had then you would know or at least should know that it varies in its approach from literal to metaphorical. Since ypu obviously haven't, why do you attempt to say these things?
 
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Have you read the Bible? If you had then you would know or at least should know that it varies in its approach from literal to metaphorical. Since ypu obviously haven't, why do you attempt to say these things?
I've read the Bible, at least most of it. It sure does seem to me that pretty much all of it is written literally, but Christians pick and choose what they like, and the parts they don't, they declare to be metaphors.

Was the story of Adam and Eve a metaphor? What about Abraham and Isaac? If that was a metaphor (or allegory), what the hell were we supposed to learn from it? How about the Exodus story?

The only obvious metaphor I can think of is at the last supper when Jesus told his disciples that the bread was his body and the wine was his blood. The funny thing is, this obvious metaphor is actually taken literally by vast numbers of Christians!


from Greek ἄλλος, állos, other, different + πάϑος, páthos, suffering
= So-Called Alternative Malpractice

Hey, "CAM" is already used by them to mean "complementary and alternative medicine." Mark Crislip (of the excellent Quackcast podcast) adds "supplements" to the beginning to get the same acronym.
 
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I thought "allopathy" was a generic, new-age term for conventional medicine.
:confused: Why not use the term 'medicine'?

Oh, right... cos then the wooists would have to acknowledge that they really are nothing more than Morally Bankrupt Charlatans Hawking Bovine-excrement

That's how it usually gets used.

Usually?

Seems not

Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 313,000 for allopathy

Misuse of the Term "Allopathy"
William T. Jarvis, Ph.D

Although many modern therapies can be construed to conform to an allopathic rationale (eg, using a laxative to relieve constipation), standard medicine has never paid allegiance to an allopathic principle. The label "allopath" was considered highly derisive by regular medicine. A 1902 book intended for new medical graduates reveals just how vehemently Medical Doctors once opposed and resented the label:

Remember that the term "Allopath" is a false nickname not chosen by regular physicians at all, but cunningly coined, and put in wicked use against us, in his venomous crusade against Regular Medicine by its enemy, Hahnemann, and ever since applied to us by our enemies with all the insinuations and derisive use the term afford. "Allopathy" applied to regular medicine is both untrue and offensive and is no more accepted by us that the term "Heretics" is accepted by the Protestants, or "*******" by the Blacks [1]. The terms "allopath" and "allopathy" are often used in reference to Medical Doctors and standard medicine by medical writers. Such use generally reflects an alternate definition of allopathy: "a system of medical practice making use of all measures proved of value (emphasis added) in treatment of disease." [2] This definition accurately describes modern, science-based medicine, but is inconsistent with its root words "allos" and "pathos." The duplicity of the term aids those who wish to misrepresent medicine as ideologically allopathic (i.e., symptom suppression). NCAHF recommends that these terms not be used in reference to standard medicine or MDs.​

Significance of a Misnomer.

Although medicine never accepted the label of allopathy, nonmedical practitioners such as chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths regularly misrepresent physicians as "allopaths." This is usually done in order to make differences between their practice guilds appear based upon conflicting philosophies rather than ideology versus science. Opponents of medicine claim that they treat the underlying causes of disease, while MDs treat only the symptoms. Further, they claim that medicine suppresses the symptoms, thus interfering with the body's inherent healing processes. A close examination reveals that this line of reasoning is only clever rhetoric.
Source: www.ncahf.org/articles/a-b/allopathy.html


Maybe you mean you can unreservedly reject the word, not the practice.
And maybe I simply mean what I wrote :mad:
 
:confused: Why not use the term 'medicine'?

Oh, right... cos then the wooists would have to acknowledge that they really are nothing more than Morally Bankrupt Charlatans Hawking Bovine-excrement

Drifting OT...

Well, I think there's quite a bit of room for middle ground here. Certain treatment paradigms lend themselves to objective verification and others don't. This does not necessarily mean that the former actually work any better than the latter. It just means that they need to rely for the most part on subjective reporting, with all its attendant problems.

Here in the UK, a lot of "alternative" treatments are increasingly accepted, including a few from your skeptics list. My girlfriend works for one of the more prestigious addiction treatment centres in the UK and they just sent her on an ear acupuncture course because it's a standard treatment. Likewise therapeutic massage.

It's also one thing to be skeptical on a discussion group, quite another if it comes to you actually overcoming a serious illness. I've nothing against conventional medicine, but so many people who use it seem to be constantly ill. I mean, it seems patently obvious to me that the majority of medications exist primarily to make pharm companies very rich, and arguably as a means of killing off those in society too feeble-minded to do anything else but stick meds down their throat. Not that meds aren't sometimes the only way, but there's a lot of bs in conventional medicine. </rant>

Nick
 
I've nothing against conventional medicine, but so many people who use it seem to be constantly ill.
Yeah... and maybe you have noticed that it seems that only dirty people wash


I mean, it seems patently obvious to me that the majority of medications exist primarily to make pharm companies very rich, and arguably as a means of killing off those in society too feeble-minded to do anything else but stick meds down their throat. Not that meds aren't sometimes the only way, but there's a lot of bs in conventional medicine.
And you have the gall to suggest that I write like a CT-ist?

Don't make me laugh!
 
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Does this mean that the Earth already existed when god created the Universe? :confused:
I am not certain which Genesis Waterbreather is referring to.
Here is KJV
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
English Standard Version
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
American Standard Version
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Young's Literal Translation might be a hint at Water Breather's angle
1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --
2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
Fluttering? WTF? Not sure what he's quoting. One translation says God was a maritime helicopter pilot. :D
From both the New Living Translation and the NIV
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
To fly is avian, to hover divine. ;) (Thus, God is a hummingbird? Confused am I. )

DR
 
Yeah... and maybe you have noticed that it seems that only dirty people wash

But, I mean, it is not healthy to be chucking so many meds constantly down you. Just look at most of these people. You can see it on them.

Objectivity is a mixed blessing in medicine if you ask me. Only those treatment strategies that can be objectively evaluated get to the majority of people. Thus objective evaluation here is it's own little evolutionary algorithm operating in healthcare and governing what people get as treatment.


And you have the gall to suggest that I write like a CT-ist?

Don't make me laugh!

I didn't say that. I said that the author of the site you quoted wrote like one. I've nothing against CTs per se. I'm happy to examine them. I'm not twitchy about the subject and unable to deal emotionally with the possibility a CT might be true, which is where I see an awful lot of skeptics coming from.

It's just that a lot of CTs are crap.

Nick
 
It's just that a lot of CTs are crap.

Nick

But not the ones where pharmaceutical companies produce medicine that either have no effect or are intentionally designed to kill the less worthy.

It's good to know where the line is.
 
What's not to believe in about the Nazca lines? As I understand it, there really are some great big line drawings laid out on the plains down there in South America. No?


I while back, Skeptigirl posted her thoughts from a trip to the area: Skeptigirl's Magical Mythery Tour of Peru; I read it and, like I said in the post above "if any evidence is forthcoming ... I am more than happy to re-evaluate my stance, on a case-by-case basis"

But the lines exist, right? It's just all the mystical B.S. interpretation that's woo...
 
I've read the Bible, at least most of it. It sure does seem to me that pretty much all of it is written literally, but Christians pick and choose what they like, and the parts they don't, they declare to be metaphors.

You can't arbitrarily declare something in the Bible metaphor without having biblical justification for doing so. If you do then you can be accused of twisting scriptures and be proven to be twisting scripture.


Was the story of Adam and Eve a metaphor? What about Abraham and Isaac? If that was a metaphor (or allegory),

There is no biblical justification for treating or understanding it that way.

what the hell were we supposed to learn from it? How about the Exodus story?

Both were understood by the prophets Jesus and his Apostles as literal historical events. Although that doesn't prevent us from learning valuable lessons from those events such as the value of faith and the inadvisability of disobedience.

The only obvious metaphor I can think of is at the last supper when Jesus told his disciples that the bread was his body and the wine was his blood.

If that's the only symbol that you remember Jesus using then you need not just to read but to study the Gospels. In the case of parables as the parable of the wheat and weeds, Jesus used symbols followed immediately by the interpretation. Wheat are the true worshippers of God while the weeds are the false. The sower of these is Satan and the gatherers are angels while the harvest is the end of the world.

He uses a house with a weak foundation as a symbol of a person with weak faith. He speaks of Israel as a tree that is to be cut down. Uses fruits symbols for behavior. Light as a symbol of his goodness, bread as the word of God, darkness as evil, ravens as agents of Satan, cornerstone as an organizational foundation, pigs as unworthy people, pearls as precious spiritual truths, white garments as moral purity, finger as the power of God, sleep as death, heart as the seat of motivation, wolves as enemies of God and his people, flock as church, sheep as teachable persons, shepherd as spiritual teacher, road as a way of life, ad infinitum





Proverbs and Psalms are ripe with symbolic language as well.



The funny thing is, this obvious metaphor is actually taken literally by vast numbers of Christians!

Jesus himself said that his reference to eating and drinking his blood were spiritual sayings and not literal. He said this in response to the reaction of those who became offended because they understood it as literal. So there is really no biblical justification for taking it that way. At least not from Jesus' own point of view.

BTW
Your statements are not a replica of the ones to which I responded so what I said cannot be addressing the points you bring up. I was responding to the statement that the Bible is written in a nonsensical way and doesn't contain a diversity of language usage such as metaphor, simile, hyperbole, irony, sarcasm, personification, parables, poetic conventions, and symbols which stand for ideas. These are plentiful in the Bible and anyone claiming otherwise comes across as not being familiar with it. The Song of Solomon, in which he praises the beauty of the Shulamite maiden is another. Then we have Revelation which is almost totally symbolic and we are told it in its introduction.

Many of the prophecies given in the book of Daniel contain symbols such as trees, rocks, mountains, and beasts standing for governments. We know that they are because first the symbols are used followed by their interpretation. So when someone makes a statement saying that the Bible is a book predominantly of one style it's only natural to assume that the person isn't familiar with the book he has chosen to criticize.

BTW
If this post is a bit disorganized its because AOL is asking me if I want to remain on line but when I look for the option to say yes there is nothing. So in order to prevent getting cut off I had to write it piecemeal fashion.
 
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You can't arbitrarily declare something in the Bible metaphor without having biblical justification for doing so. If you do then you can be accused of twisting scriptures and be proven to be twisting scripture.
Oh, please explain to us which parts of the Bible are supposed to be metaphor and which are not! Please.

:popcorn1
 
Jesus himself said that his reference to eating and drinking his blood were spiritual sayings and not literal. He said this in response to the reaction of those who became offended because they understood it as literal.
I've read the passage. Didn't see this anywhere in there.
 

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