Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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luchog said:
Interestingly, that exact scenario was brought up in the comments on PZ's post; to which the overwhelming response was that anyone who accused PZ of sexual assault could be safely dismissed as a MRA who was trying to defame him because of his support for the accusations against Schermer.
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...which is an incredibly transparent way to dodge the question. Fine. Let's say the accused is Richard Carrier. Or Greta Christina. What then?
 
Axiom_Blade said:
...which is an incredibly transparent way to dodge the question. Fine. Let's say the accused is Richard Carrier. Or Greta Christina. What then?
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And let's not forget that David Silverman was "named," too. He's been fairly strident in excoriating non-FTB folk and leaving FTB folk alone.
 
Diogenes said:
Nice use of background in framing one of the author's question while ignoring that author's work on that question further in that report! Why should you fear getting banned on FtB, selective reading is a norm there, isn't it?

That report also highlights the failure of reporting...as, of course, police can't investigate rapes that are not reported.
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No, they can't. But the reality of ingrained mostly male police officer attitudes is a fact. It doesn't automatically go away just because it has been identified and acknowledged.

Domestic violence prosecutions have suffered a similar fate, a lot of reports were dismissed by the police they were reported to. In some jurisdictions in the US the police have worked to correct the problem by implementing domestic violence task forces and automatically arresting one or both parties policies.

Problems persist, you can't expect every abused woman to stand up against an unfair system. Some will, some won't. I think it's fine to encourage women to report date rape. But I don't think it's fine to suggest that is the only thing one should do.
 
Lorentz said:
David Silverman? Name is new to me, please explicate?
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I do hate to spread rumors, but this is what they're doing. There was a "more will be named" Tumblr on which people posted a number of accusations of sexual impropriety on the part of atheist/skeptic men. The Tumblr was taken down after an accusation was leveled against David Silverman. (Who has been on their side.)

Here's a link to a screencap; I don't believe that the actions the anonymous poster describes are illegal. Hmm...I can't post links yet because I'm new. I hope it doesn't bother any mods if I break the URL up with spaces. I am, after all, simply trying to prove an assertion. http ://i.imgur. com/ Dy1EyMP.png
 
SimplyAghast said:
I do hate to spread rumors, but this is what they're doing. There was a "more will be named" Tumblr on which people posted a number of accusations of sexual impropriety on the part of atheist/skeptic men. The Tumblr was taken down after an accusation was leveled against David Silverman. (Who has been on their side.)

Here's a link to a screencap; I don't believe that the actions the anonymous poster describes are illegal. Hmm...I can't post links yet because I'm new. I hope it doesn't bother any mods if I break the URL up with spaces. I am, after all, simply trying to prove an assertion. http ://i.imgur. com/ Dy1EyMP.png
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Thanks for that link. Anonymous poster though, I'm not giving it much credibility just based on that. Could be anyone posting for any reason.
 
SimplyAghast said:
I do hate to spread rumors, but this is what they're doing. There was a "more will be named" Tumblr on which people posted a number of accusations of sexual impropriety on the part of atheist/skeptic men. The Tumblr was taken down after an accusation was leveled against David Silverman. (Who has been on their side.)

Here's a link to a screencap; I don't believe that the actions the anonymous poster describes are illegal. Hmm...I can't post links yet because I'm new. I hope it doesn't bother any mods if I break the URL up with spaces. I am, after all, simply trying to prove an assertion. http ://i.imgur. com/ Dy1EyMP.png
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http://i.imgur.com/Dy1EyMP.png
 
Lorentz said:
Thanks for that link. Anonymous poster though, I'm not giving it much credibility just based on that. Could be anyone posting for any reason.
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I ABSOLUTELY agree with you, and this is my overall point. I'm aghast that the schism has gotten so bad that some are literally throwing around rape accusations. This is NOT skepticism. This is NOT good for the community. Every time you think that these folks have stopped hurting the movement, they do something worse.
 
kellyb said:
Problems persist, you can't expect every abused woman to stand up against an unfair system. Some will, some won't. I think it's fine to encourage women to report date rape. But I don't think it's fine to suggest that is the only thing one should do.
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Not necessarily the only thing they should do; but public name-and-shame is really not an effective way to deal with the problem. Particularly given the potential for abuse.
 
qwints said:
For what it's worth, Shermer's legal team's demand letter seems reasonable to me on its face - they think PZ is lying, and requesting him to issue a correction or face litigation is reasonable. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/12/lawyering-up/
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That post is now gone. The original "grenade" post seems still to be up.

One mind-blowing comment may be gone. A poster proposed that Shermer going to PZ on a personal basis might have been the "we're all skeptics in this together" thing to do.

PZ's post claims that Shermer is a serial rapist. Not that Shermer drank two cups of coffee and didn't put a dollar in the honor jar.
 
tsig said:
How many women would it take before you'd believe them against one man?
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Diogenes said:
With or without the vested interest in one group of people looking to intentionally find accusations against specific people?

If being brought forward by parties with no overt bias...

...again, though, those are allegations of crimes for criminal investigations rather than FtB "investigations" aren't they?
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So no matter how many women agree on something you won't believe them against a man?
 
bedlin88 said:
I don't, and didn't dispute or state anything to the contrary. I never said the Justice system is perfect far from it and as long as it is run by people it never will be either, at least in my opinion.

And cops in many jurisdictions do, but I guarantee if you don't report it to them then they won't even have the opportunity to not believe the accusations, 100 percent of the time.

As for the last point that is my point also. All we have is he said, she said, and we let the Court of Public Opinion decide the case. Not exactly a just solution in my book.

So what do you suggest exactly? What other system of Law do you think things like this should be brought to? Are you honestly saying, and I don't and really hope your not saying, that if someone makes a charge they can not prove, it should just be taken as fact? Can you really not foresee any circumstances where a system like that wouldn't be abused by any individual that had a grudge against another individual?

For the Record I don't know if any of these allegations are true or false. And from the looks of it only the people involved ever will.
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tsig said:
How many women would it take before you'd believe them against one man?
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Wow, could you possibly build a larger straw man?
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He said it was "he said, she said" I just wanted to know how many "she saids" he needed.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
tsig said:
So no matter how many women agree on something you won't believe them against a man?
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Wow, could you possibly build a larger straw man?
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tsig said:
tsig said:
How many women would it take before you'd believe them against one man?
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Wow, could you possibly build a larger straw man?
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He said it was "he said, she said" I just wanted to know how many "she saids" he needed.
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I think she intended it as a rhetorical question, not a challenge.
 
bedlin88 said:
Neither do I, however your silly baiting questions certainly are, and now I am done with you.
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If my questions were silly I'd think you'd have an easy answer.

How many women have to tell you something happened before you believe it?
 
tsig said:
If my questions were silly I'd think you'd have an easy answer.

How many women have to tell you something happened before you believe it?
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It seems to me like the question's a moot point, since we don't even have one right now.
 
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